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  1. #1
    Rumbles Moderator Guy1's Avatar
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    Default Makoto Shishio VS Yukishiro Enish! Live Action! Spoilers Inside!



    VS


    It's Makoto Shisho VS Yukishiro Enishi! Live Action Versions Of Both.

    Bloodlust Is On. Obvs.

    Fight Takes Place On The G Corp Helipad Because Why Not?

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  2. #2
    Mighty Member Kuro's Avatar
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    Enishi runs around the ring for 15 minutes until Shishio explodes

  3. #3
    Cruel and Unusual Twickster's Avatar
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    Enishi lost to a straight one-on-one duel against Kenshin. Shishio got quadruple-teamed by Kenshin, Aoshi, Sato and Sano and technically *still* didn't lose, only being defeated by running out the clock. You do the math.

  4. #4
    Mighty Member Kuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twickster View Post
    Enishi lost to a straight one-on-one duel against Kenshin. Shishio got quadruple-teamed by Kenshin, Aoshi, Sato and Sano and technically *still* didn't lose, only being defeated by running out the clock. You do the math.
    Ehhh, to be fair, Saitoh did get his legs almost completely wrekt by Usui. Sure, he still had a lot of power, but he definitely wasn't even at 50 percent of his max thrust for his Gatotsu.
    Sano was hit by multiple blows that vaporizes boulders and while he did receive treatment, it was basically just some ointment. Dude probably had massive internal damage.
    Aoshi got completely bodied by Kenshin's ougi and couldn't even hold his sword in a previous scene. And he lost most of his speed.
    Kenshin got slashed multiple times all over his body (including one giant gash on his back), Aoshi took his sweet time pummeling him with his fists (which are stronger than Sano's minus Futae no Kiwami) and the guy performed two ougi's, both of which place enormous strain on his body.

    None of this is to say that Shishio wouldn't have won against each person, but he certainly wouldn't have made sport of them the way he did.

    As for Enishi... well, Enishi was fast enough to blitz Kenshin in one scene and was able to more or less counter Ken's best techniques. And unlike Ken, he has a real sword. So he definitely would just kill Shishio.

    Buuuuuuuuuuut, Shishio isn't just someone you beat by being faster than him. He clearly can handle fast techniques like the ougi and a point blank range Gatotsu.

    Shishio, probably 65/100

  5. #5
    Extraordinary Member Iron_Twister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuro View Post
    Ehhh, to be fair, Saitoh did get his legs almost completely wrekt by Usui. Sure, he still had a lot of power, but he definitely wasn't even at 50 percent of his max thrust for his Gatotsu.
    Sano was hit by multiple blows that vaporizes boulders and while he did receive treatment, it was basically just some ointment. Dude probably had massive internal damage.
    Aoshi got completely bodied by Kenshin's ougi and couldn't even hold his sword in a previous scene. And he lost most of his speed.
    Kenshin got slashed multiple times all over his body (including one giant gash on his back), Aoshi took his sweet time pummeling him with his fists (which are stronger than Sano's minus Futae no Kiwami) and the guy performed two ougi's, both of which place enormous strain on his body.

    None of this is to say that Shishio wouldn't have won against each person, but he certainly wouldn't have made sport of them the way he did.

    As for Enishi... well, Enishi was fast enough to blitz Kenshin in one scene and was able to more or less counter Ken's best techniques. And unlike Ken, he has a real sword. So he definitely would just kill Shishio.

    Buuuuuuuuuuut, Shishio isn't just someone you beat by being faster than him. He clearly can handle fast techniques like the ougi and a point blank range Gatotsu.

    Shishio, probably 65/100
    ...We are talking about the live action films right?

  6. #6
    Cruel and Unusual Twickster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuro View Post
    Ehhh, to be fair, Saitoh did get his legs almost completely wrekt by Usui. Sure, he still had a lot of power, but he definitely wasn't even at 50 percent of his max thrust for his Gatotsu.
    Sano was hit by multiple blows that vaporizes boulders and while he did receive treatment, it was basically just some ointment. Dude probably had massive internal damage.
    Aoshi got completely bodied by Kenshin's ougi and couldn't even hold his sword in a previous scene. And he lost most of his speed.
    Kenshin got slashed multiple times all over his body (including one giant gash on his back), Aoshi took his sweet time pummeling him with his fists (which are stronger than Sano's minus Futae no Kiwami) and the guy performed two ougi's, both of which place enormous strain on his body.

    None of this is to say that Shishio wouldn't have won against each person, but he certainly wouldn't have made sport of them the way he did.

    As for Enishi... well, Enishi was fast enough to blitz Kenshin in one scene and was able to more or less counter Ken's best techniques. And unlike Ken, he has a real sword. So he definitely would just kill Shishio.

    Buuuuuuuuuuut, Shishio isn't just someone you beat by being faster than him. He clearly can handle fast techniques like the ougi and a point blank range Gatotsu.

    Shishio, probably 65/100
    OP says this is movie continuity. Your referencing anime and manga events.

  7. #7
    Extraordinary Member The Drunkard Kid's Avatar
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    If this was the manga versions, I would give Enishi a moderately easy victory as he's basically someone with base stats and skills comparable to Kenshin's (to say nothing if his Nerves of Insanity that give him notably better reflexes than Kenshin's come into play) and the willingness to kill (especially since his swords don't even HAVE a blunt side), and Shishio only survived against even a very worn out Kenshin only because Kenshin's reverse sword prevented all the hits he had landed from killing/dismembering him. Like, at one point in their duel Shishio took a chain of Ryu Kan Sen attacks that would have probably instantly killed him at least 3 times over if Kenshin had just flipped his sword around.

    I can't say about the live action versions, though, but if Kenshin had to fight a similar gauntlet before getting to Shishio and Enishi had been able to match or beat a relatively fresh Kenshin, then I guess the same general principle would apply.

  8. #8
    This Isn't Home Yun Lao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Drunkard Kid View Post
    If this was the manga versions, I would give Enishi a moderately easy victory as he's basically someone with base stats and skills comparable to Kenshin's (to say nothing if his Nerves of Insanity that give him notably better reflexes than Kenshin's come into play) and the willingness to kill (especially since his swords don't even HAVE a blunt side), and Shishio only survived against even a very worn out Kenshin only because Kenshin's reverse sword prevented all the hits he had landed from killing/dismembering him. Like, at one point in their duel Shishio took a chain of Ryu Kan Sen attacks that would have probably instantly killed him at least 3 times over if Kenshin had just flipped his sword around.

    I can't say about the live action versions, though, but if Kenshin had to fight a similar gauntlet before getting to Shishio and Enishi had been able to match or beat a relatively fresh Kenshin, then I guess the same general principle would apply.
    Agreed.

    While I haven't seen the live-action yet, it sounds like they skipped a few things, like the initial fight between Enishi and Kenshin spoilers:
    where Enishi eats a Ryu Kan Sen and keeps trucking and then develops a counter against Kenshin's ultimate technique after seeing it once.
    end of spoilers
    To add to this, during the second fight, Enishi mentions that he most likely wasn't even serious during the first.

  9. #9
    Rumbles Moderator Guy1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron_Twister View Post
    ...We are talking about the live action films right?
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  10. #10
    Rumbles Moderator Guy1's Avatar
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  11. #11
    Cruel and Unusual Twickster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yun Lao View Post
    Agreed.

    While I haven't seen the live-action yet, it sounds like they skipped a few things, like the initial fight between Enishi and Kenshin spoilers:
    where Enishi eats a Ryu Kan Sen and keeps trucking and then develops a counter against Kenshin's ultimate technique after seeing it once.
    end of spoilers
    To add to this, during the second fight, Enishi mentions that he most likely wasn't even serious during the first.
    None of this happens in live-action. Enishi has no reference to any techniques specifically developed against Kenshin and has no nerves of insanity. They fight *only once*, and Kenshin trounces him then and there.

    As opposed to Shishio, where Kenshin comes in relatively fresh (he does fight Sojiro prior to this, but comes out relatively uninjured), fights Shishio one-on-one and is completely and utterly trashed. Then Sato comes and is trashed. Then Sano comes and... is completely ignored as a nuisance to the extent that Shishio does not even bother to hit him with a sword. Then Aoshi comes and is trashed. Then Kenshin comes to, and he, Sato, Aoshi and Sano *fight Shishio at the same time* and are trashed to the extent that Sano, Saito, and Aoshi are knocked out, and only Kenshin is left. Then Kenshin manages to hit Shishio with an Ougi, which manages to break his sword, but does not technically keep him down. Shishio gets up and only dies because of his time limit. Movie Shishio is an absolute, f*ing monster.
    Last edited by Twickster; 06-29-2021 at 11:40 AM.

  12. #12
    This Isn't Home Yun Lao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twickster View Post
    None of this happens in live-action. Enishi has no reference to any techniques specifically developed against Kenshin and has no nerves of insanity. They fight *only once*, and Kenshin trounces him then and there.
    Wow... that kills a lot of my motivation to watch it.

    Manga-wise, the Enishi/Jinchuu saga is one of my favorite arcs because of just how much Kenshin has to endure, mentally and physically due to Enishi, and how he overcomes the past and present.

  13. #13
    Cruel and Unusual Twickster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Drunkard Kid View Post
    I can't say about the live action versions, though, but if Kenshin had to fight a similar gauntlet before getting to Shishio and Enishi had been able to match or beat a relatively fresh Kenshin, then I guess the same general principle would apply.
    Might be better to see the movies then, because Kenshin's "gauntlet" to Shishio is basically stomping a mentally compromised Sojiro in round 2 and coming out relatively uninjured, and Enishi *never* beats Kenshin, fresh or otherwise. If anything, its the reverse in the movie. Shishio is the one who undertakes a gauntlet before the final fight with Kenshin.

  14. #14
    Mighty Member Kuro's Avatar
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    Oops my mistake

  15. #15

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    haven't seen the live-action film, but it sounds like they treated Shishio how I would have wanted to see it ... apart from his sword (Mugenjin) breaking ... I think it's much more appropriate in the manga that Shishio's sword just disappears and is with him in hell. after all, Mugenjin was a brother to the shin uchi reverse-blade ... it's always been a pet theory of mine that they were forged at the same time, but I don't think that can be backed up by evidence.

    at least, I can't. if it's true, it would need to be found by someone who can actually read Japanese.

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