Echo (Maya Lopez) Appreciation 2021 Phoenix Song Echo

[Frontier]

You have to remember my frame of reference. I'm an old guy.

Back in the 1970s Mantis' powerset was that of a street level hero. Her training by the Priests of Pama aside, she was really just an empath with martial arts mastery specializing in using pressure points to advantage her attacks. It wasn't until later -- I want to say around the 90s -- that Mantis as the Celestial Madonna showed far greater abilities than that -- like the power to travel between planets spiritually and creating a new body for herself out of vegetation.

Ghost Rider was a stunt cyclist who made a deal with Satan. It wasn't until later that Zarathos was named, and at that time, he/it was perceived to be a minor demon. Certainly nothing on the level of Mephisto, like he/it is now. In the early days the perception was that it was Satan, but Johnny wasn't necessarily about to run off and battle Thanos seeking revenge. No, he stuck to mostly low level villains and cultists, except for when he joined up with the first team of Champions. But I guess we don't need to discuss GR, because Marvel made it easy for us. They didn't call him Cosmic Ghost Rider for nothing.

And while I agree that Spider-Man, Black Panther and others all only wielded cosmic level power situationally, it counts.

I'm not knocking it. No one likes characters that are forever limited by their native circumstance or abilities. Sometimes the only way to see characters in a new light and see how they'd handle the yoke of even greater responsibility is to give them greater powers, no matter how briefly.

Before the unfortunate retcon, we all saw what happened to Jean Grey when she became the Phoenix. I'm curious to see how Echo carries the mantle now.

I guess it all depends on how you look at it .

[CosmiComic]

Wouldn't Captain America be a street level hero then?

[Frontier]

Wouldn't Captain America be a street level hero then?

Well, I don't really think of him that way, but I think he has fought street crime once or twice.

[CosmiComic]

Well, I don't really think of him that way, but I think he has fought street crime once or twice.

I mean in terms of power levels. Is street level a power level or does it more describe the scenarios they fight in?

[Frontier]

I mean in terms of power levels. Is street level a power level or does it more describe the scenarios they fight in?

Hmm...it kind of depends on both, but more the latter.

[CosmiComic]

Hmm...it kind of depends on both, but more the latter.

Ok, well, then, is power creep that much of a problem?

[JudicatorPrime]

I mean in terms of power levels. Is street level a power level or does it more describe the scenarios they fight in?

It's fairly elastic in that people stretch it to mean both. When I speak of "cosmic" or "street level", however, I refer to power levels, not venue of activity. It's just a much more simple connotation.

[JudicatorPrime]

Ok, well, then, is power creep that much of a problem?

I wouldn't call it a problem, but it is rather annoying.

Marvel has a deep bench of extremely powerful characters who rarely see any panel time. If OP characters can't be used when a crisis that is more or less geared to their level calls for it, then when can they be used? Characters like Miracleman will never see the light of day, because writers think boosting someone like Venom to take on Knull better serves their narrative. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but I'm definitely not buying that series to find out.

OP characters should be used for more than just establishing threat levels or getting jobbed in situations that should absolutely annihilate anyone and everyone who isn't on the same level. But we see that more often than not. Writers play favorites.

For the record, I'm not anti-Echo or anything like that. While I wasn't a fan of the PF once again taking up a mortal avatar, I'm open to this new development and will see where it takes us. Having said that, I would have felt the same if Echo had somehow merged with Proudhawk and become the newest Psi-Hawk.

[CosmiComic]

It's fairly elastic in that people stretch it to mean both. When I speak of "cosmic" or "street level", however, I refer to power levels, not venue of activity. It's just a much more simple connotation.

In that case, Cap probably would be street level.

I wouldn't call it a problem, but it is rather annoying.

Marvel has a deep bench of extremely powerful characters who rarely see any panel time. If OP characters can't be used when a crisis that is more or less geared to their level calls for it, then when can they be used? Characters like Miracleman will never see the light of day, because writers think boosting someone like Venom to take on Knull better serves their narrative. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but I'm definitely not buying that series to find out.

OP characters should be used for more than just establishing threat levels or getting jobbed in situations that should absolutely annihilate anyone and everyone who isn't on the same level. But we see that more often than not. Writers play favorites.

For the record, I'm not anti-Echo or anything like that. While I wasn't a fan of the PF once again taking up a mortal avatar, I'm open to this new development and will see where it takes us. Having said that, I would have felt the same if Echo had somehow merged with Proudhawk and become the newest Psi-Hawk.

I think it depends on the situation. Maybe Marvel thought Echo didn't have enough power.

[JudicatorPrime]

I think it depends on the situation. Maybe Marvel thought Echo didn't have enough power.

Well, my hope is that people will focus on purpose, not power amp when it comes to Echo. I see this as an opportunity for the writer(s) to expand on the lore of the Phoenix Force in ways not explored by previous hosts.

[CosmiComic]

Well, my hope is that people will focus on purpose, not power amp when it comes to Echo. I see this as an opportunity for the writer(s) to expand on the lore of the Phoenix Force in ways not explored by previous hosts.

That, and I guess also to help Echo become a more popular character

[Anthony W]

Corporate synergy would say "absolutely!"

Or not. We have had not one but two interpretations of the X-Men (and Phoenix Saga) on the big screen with Jean Grey. I could easily see Feige wanting to go in another direction and you can easily tie the Phoenix in with some indigenous people stuff and get some good headlines out of it as well.

[CosmiComic]

Or not. We have had not one but two interpretations of the X-Men (and Phoenix Saga) on the big screen with Jean Grey. I could easily see Feige wanting to go in another direction and you can easily tie the Phoenix in with some indigenous people stuff and get some good headlines out of it as well.

Idk if they'd bring the Phoenix into the MCU so quickly after the Last Stand and Dark Phoenix

[Anthony W]

Idk if they'd bring the Phoenix into the MCU so quickly after the Last Stand and Dark Phoenix

Who said anything about doing it quickly?

[CosmiComic]

Who said anything about doing it quickly?

Ok, well, maybe eventually then. I imagine it would still probably show up MCU X-Men, but maybe by then Echo will be fairly well established.