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  1. #61
    Astonishing Member OopsIdiditagain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperX View Post
    Time to create the Viltrumite empire ,I mean kryptonian empire.

    That was so over the top and yes cringeworthy statements in anything written to prop someone up artificially that I can't believe you all just ate it up and with a giant sized spoon
    What is the Kryptonian equivalent to SPQR?
    december 21st has passed where are my superpowers?

  2. #62
    Astonishing Member OopsIdiditagain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DABellWrites View Post
    Updating his father's phrase? Why? Not trying to be a negative nancy on this one. I just don't understand why Jon needed this.
    I'm not a fan of the "truth, justice, and the American way", just letting you guys know. I just don't see the need for updating a catchphrase that should've been tossed out when WW2 ended.
    Mottos are badass and should not stay in WW2.
    december 21st has passed where are my superpowers?

  3. #63
    Ultimate Member Robotman's Avatar
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    If he's going to have aspects of Lois, he should actually be a bit brash and definitely a risk taker. Definitely not early 90s Superboy level of arrogance, but more outwardly confident than Superman generally is.

  4. #64
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    It's a good update, probably the only actually good update to the classic slogan. Would prefer it if it were "a better tomorrow" instead of "a better world", though.

  5. #65
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan58 View Post
    It's a good update, probably the only actually good update to the classic slogan. Would prefer it if it were "a better tomorrow" instead of "a better world", though.
    Maybe it's just me reading too much into it, but I feel that it isn't a better tomorrow because Jon isn't the Man of Tomorrow. He isn't fighting for an hypothetical better future. He wants a better world now. At least that's how I feel.

    Edit : it's also sensible with the era they were created from/grew up in. Clark's come from an era where hope for a better future just on the horizon was strong. Even the Communists revolutions around the world sprang from the belief that it was possible to create a Better Tomorrow if only the world/society upheld certain values (depending on which side of the Iron Curtain you were).

    Today's, the very idea that we have a future at all is in jeopardy. A modern Superman can't be a Man of Tomorrow, he has to be of Today, to make it possible to have a tomorrow, so to speak.
    Last edited by Korath; 07-12-2021 at 03:02 AM.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    More previews from issue #1.

    Looks like this issue is in fact going to be more weighty than just a recap of his origin. This issue seems to be about Taylor giving the reader Jon's mission statement, and how/why he comes to realize it.

    Fans who have been clamoring for Jon to get more Lois aspects to him will be VERY happy it seems. Damian will bring up the fact that the natural inclination Jon has towards doing more than just standard Superman stuff is thanks to what he gest from his mom. This makes it so one of the big conceptual pushes behind Jon's distinction from his father is his mother's influence on him. In addition to that, this need to "do more" is also what a lot of the story seems to be built on.

    So Taylor wasn't just paying lip service to Lois when he said that she's a very important aspect of what makes up Jon.

    And on that note, Truth, Justice, And A Better World does in fact seem to be Jon's new catchphrase and update to Clark's old one, and I couldn't be happier about it!






    Jon being characterized with his mother, Lois, as a large part of what informs his personhood is a very cool distinction. I love to see that this is being done. Admittedly, even I kind of took for granted Lois's contribution in how Jon would or even should inform himself and who and how he should be.

    That's kind of an issue with legacy heroes who are the kids of the heroes from which their legacies draw, particularly when they have more than one parent or guardian who raised them/took care of them (and when the legacy is drawn from a more patriarchal or patriarchal-leaning figure). Clark Kent as Superman is such an obvious magnet and beacon that it has been all too easy to look at Jon's growth and development squarely from the perspective of Clark and being informed solely by him and what Jon inherits from his world and legacy. This also means it's all too easy for Lois to just function as the convenient biological element that facilitated Jon's existence, without ever acknowledging or even considering how Lois and her own legacy could or would have informed Jon's perspective.

    This book actively acknowledging Lois's presence and importance as a formative element in what makes Jon Kent the Superman he's going to be is a simple and very obvious choice to make that likely would have been overlooked by most other writers because of the eclipse that is Clark Kent's Superman being just that hard to see past. And that's because it has been overlooked by most other writers in favor of focusing on Clark's eclipse. Right out of the gate and I can already very much appreciate this writer making this sensible foundational choice for Jon.

  7. #67
    Fantastic Member oneveryfineday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    Maybe it's just me reading too much into it, but I feel that it isn't a better tomorrow because Jon isn't the Man of Tomorrow. He isn't fighting for an hypothetical better future. He wants a better world now. At least that's how I feel.

    Edit : it's also sensible with the era they were created from/grew up in. Clark's come from an era where hope for a better future just on the horizon was strong. Even the Communists revolutions around the world sprang from the belief that it was possible to create a Better Tomorrow if only the world/society upheld certain values (depending on which side of the Iron Curtain you were).

    Today's, the very idea that we have a future at all is in jeopardy. A modern Superman can't be a Man of Tomorrow, he has to be of Today, to make it possible to have a tomorrow, so to speak.
    You’ve unintentionally hit the nail on the head here. In Future State JL Yara tells Jon that while Clark was the man of tomorrow, Jon has to be the man of today. I’m liking these little twists like “21st Century Superman”, “Man of Today”, and “Truth, Justice, and a Better World.” I want to see it waterfall down onto other familiar elements too.


    Quote Originally Posted by J. D. Guy View Post
    Jon being characterized with his mother, Lois, as a large part of what informs his personhood is a very cool distinction. I love to see that this is being done. Admittedly, even I kind of took for granted Lois's contribution in how Jon would or even should inform himself and who and how he should be.

    That's kind of an issue with legacy heroes who are the kids of the heroes from which their legacies draw, particularly when they have more than one parent or guardian who raised them/took care of them (and when the legacy is drawn from a more patriarchal or patriarchal-leaning figure). Clark Kent as Superman is such an obvious magnet and beacon that it has been all too easy to look at Jon's growth and development squarely from the perspective of Clark and being informed solely by him and what Jon inherits from his world and legacy. This also means it's all too easy for Lois to just function as the convenient biological element that facilitated Jon's existence, without ever acknowledging or even considering how Lois and her own legacy could or would have informed Jon's perspective.

    This book actively acknowledging Lois's presence and importance as a formative element in what makes Jon Kent the Superman he's going to be is a simple and very obvious choice to make that likely would have been overlooked by most other writers because of the eclipse that is Clark Kent's Superman being just that hard to see past. And that's because it has been overlooked by most other writers in favor of focusing on Clark's eclipse. Right out of the gate and I can already very much appreciate this writer making this sensible foundational choice for Jon.
    Yeah, you’re correct on every point here. Even in old Silver/Bronze Age Elseworlds stories of Superman Jr. his mom is not much more than a faceless woman or a total mystery and he’s a total Superman clone.

    Hopefully Jon will continue to be written by future writers, and when they read SoKE #1 for research they will see Lois’ influence bright and clear.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneveryfineday View Post

    Yeah, you’re correct on every point here. Even in old Silver/Bronze Age Elseworlds stories of Superman Jr. his mom is not much more than a faceless woman or a total mystery and he’s a total Superman clone.

    Hopefully Jon will continue to be written by future writers, and when they read SoKE #1 for research they will see Lois’ influence bright and clear.
    Definitely agree that this should be an ever-ongoing and referenced part of Jon's Superman canon.

  9. #69
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    Duplicate post, so I'll replace it with this.

    I'm looking forward to reading Superman: Son of Kal-El!

  10. #70
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Speaking of Lois' influence, I'm reminded of a quote from Tom Taylor's interview regarding the book:

    "think writing Jon, both as a child and as an adult, gives me a good idea of his soul, of his drive, and his desire to help people and right wrongs. It’s important to remember he’s not just the son of Clark, he’s the son of Lois Lane, one of the greatest champions of truth on the planet. Her fire and sense of justice is as much a part of Jon as anything he gets from his father. When my wife and I met, she was actually a crime reporter, so I don’t have to look far beyond her, or my own mother’s long history of activism and protecting others, to see Lois Lanes around me.

    I was also fortunate enough to spend time with Margot Kidder and she was truly the embodiment of Lois for me. We had lunch one day, and Margot told me stories of her protesting. She was arrested fighting against the powerful for the voiceless."
    Given the fact that we're now seeing tangible proof that Taylor was serious about how important Lois' influence on Jon is in the book like he said here, I'm genuinely wondering if the story Kidder told him about how she was arrested for her activism will have a homage in the book via Jon?

    We already have Jon creating a certain level of friction with the US government, and in this same interview (and in the solicitation) we're told "without giving too much away, Jon’s heart is going to see him stand up to something the rest of the world is willing to ignore. He is going to make powerful people very angry. And his world will be threatened."

    Could we actually see Superman taken away in handcuffs for speaking up?

    Remember, unlike past versions of Superman who would fight corruption, Jon Kent can't hide behind a secret identity after tormenting a crooked public official. He's, again, more like his mom in this regard because once he steps in he has to put his legal name right next to his actions, and that means potential blowback from these powerful people.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  11. #71
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneveryfineday View Post
    You’ve unintentionally hit the nail on the head here. In Future State JL Yara tells Jon that while Clark was the man of tomorrow, Jon has to be the man of today. I’m liking these little twists like “21st Century Superman”, “Man of Today”, and “Truth, Justice, and a Better World.” I want to see it waterfall down onto other familiar elements too.
    This is consistent with what Taylor said in his interview, so I doubt he picked the words at random or without care.

    "That’s a really big question. Not just for me, but for Clark and for Jon. When Superman leapt his first tall buildings in 1938, he was a hero needed for his time. He wasn’t fighting aliens and robots, he was fighting domestic violence and corrupt politicians.

    It’s the question that will hang over the series. If you’re one of the most powerful people on the planet, how far do you take that? What do you accept before stepping in? I’ve explored one side of this question in Injustice, but that’s a story I never believed in because, for me, Superman is incorruptible. He has to be. I’ve written the story of absolute power corrupting absolutely and a world held together by a fist of steel. Now I get to write something better, someone with the power to change the world with a heart full of hope.

    But still, that question of how to be a hero today will be there. It’s easy enough to punch a giant, rampaging gorilla. It’s harder to punch social inequity and the climate crisis."


    ________

    I think it goes hand in hand with the idea that Jon is more hands on than his father. Clark was about setting an example of what we could be like someday if we got it together, but Jon seems to be about getting in there and being what we have to be right now so there even be a possibility for tomorrow.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  12. #72
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    I don't understand why DC doesn't reference the classic looks of the characters even in flashbacks. Shouldn't Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter be in their classic costumes?

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    unlike past versions of Superman who would fight corruption, Jon Kent can't hide behind a secret identity after tormenting a crooked public official. He's, again, more like his mom in this regard because once he steps in he has to put his legal name right next to his actions, and that means potential blowback from these powerful people.
    So I haven't been following post Tomasi Superman but is Jon's secret identity public knowledge as well as Clark's?

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning63 View Post
    So I haven't been following post Tomasi Superman but is Jon's secret identity public knowledge as well as Clark's?
    Clark being public with his identity means Jon Kent being the son of Superman is also public knowledge.

  15. #75
    Astonishing Member Darkspellmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Goblin of Sector 2814 View Post
    I don't understand why DC doesn't reference the classic looks of the characters even in flashbacks. Shouldn't Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter be in their classic costumes?
    Might have to do with keeping the looks consistent in all books.

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