Gail Simone answers questions about the New 52

[Holt]

https://twitter.com/GailSimone/statu...56126998777862

Saw the New 52 trending. Some interesting stuff here.

[Restingvoice]

how much were creators told about what was/what wasnt canon anymore?

Oh, almost nothing, and what we were told changed a lot.

It was originally pitched to me as a YEAR ONE starting point. That meant throwing out a lot of DC’s best stuff, but I was told that stuff could be re-introduced.

And a lot of stuff was made up on the spot at cons.

What was the main motif of the entire line? Was it a restart? A retelling? If I recall, some characters started younger (Superman), but some carried their previous history (Batman).

That was the answer none of us had, really.

At different times it was different things.

Was there any sense of a N52 "endgame" that you were all building towards? Was Pandora intended to be involved?

Not that I’m aware of.

For whatever reason, writers were just not in those loops, it was all editorial. And I think it shows, not that they were bad ideas or anything, it just needed more input from the people writing the books.

How much time did creatives have between when you were first briefed about the new 52 and when it was launched?

Almost none, it was VERY seat-of-the-pants.

[atomicskull]

Lots of New 52 praise on Twitter right now. It just goes to show you that haters aren't the majority, they just tend to be the loudest.

[Dred]

Lots of New 52 praise on Twitter right now. It just goes to show you that haters aren't the majority, they just tend to be the loudest.

That seems like a bit of confirmation bias. Especially considering a lot of things Simone is revealing.

Honestly the one question where she answers that it was company edict that creatives couldn't communicate with each other is horrifying. That's like union buster philosophy, but instead of it being busting poor workers for wages it's for throttling creativity and brainstorming.

[MajorHoy]

Lots of New 52 praise on Twitter right now. It just goes to show you that haters aren't the majority, they just tend to be the loudest.

Like many other things, there was miserable stuff from the New 52, but there was also some pretty fun and interesting titles to choose from as well depending on what you wanted.

The fact that it was a jumbled, screwed-up mess that they tried to make up as they went along (even though people at DC kept telling us it was well prepared and thought out ahead of time) didn't help, nor did they benefit from the idea of jettisoning most BUT NOT ALL back-stories since that created additional snafus.

[atomicskull]

That seems like a bit of confirmation bias. Especially considering a lot of things Simone is revealing.

Honestly the one question where she answers that it was company edict that creatives couldn't communicate with each other is horrifying. That's like union buster philosophy, but instead of it being busting poor workers for wages it's for throttling creativity and brainstorming.

I don't do confirmation bias. I was knee-deep into comic book shops at the time and talking to fans and retailers alike made me realize that the New 52 hatred was completely blown out of proportion. I just think folks have a hard time when it comes to people who actually liked the New 52. Comic book fandom isn't a hive-mind thing.

[Restingvoice]

"But the various editorial and creative teams didn’t work together and it was ultimately very confusing."

I don't get the impression that it was an edict that they don't work together, more like they just don't work together because it was so sudden and they had no time, at least initially.

Like she said, the order came from editorial, but each editors have their own interpretation of the order from the top so each of them gave different orders to the creative teams.

So they end up with Batman and Nightwing keeping their history but Simone was asked to do a Batgirl Year One

They have to do it quick since it was a sudden order, the editors are the ones doing the pitching to the writers, and since they're on schedule, each creative teams don't contact the other.

Simone said she wrote Batgirl like it's Year One (with Killing Joke as back story) at least up until issue #4 where Batman gave Barbara his approval as Batgirl
On the other hand, Higgins wrote Dick in Nightwing #1 like he just continued where he left off as Batman, but by issue #3 he's already been told that Dick's back story from Robin to Nightwing to Batman to Nightwing again was only 5 years old.
Years ago, when asked why he drew Dick so short in Batman #1, Greg Capullo said that he was told by editorial that Dick was only 19 years old, even though The Court of Owls story shows that Scott Snyder and Kyle Higgins were communicating with each other since issue #1.
Greg changed Dick's height immediately in issue #2.
(I don't remember when they established Dick as 21)

So they really flew by the seat of their pants, with the corrections only comes maybe the next month, after it's written, drawn, and printed.

[Dred]

I don't do confirmation bias. I was knee-deep into comic book shops at the time and talking to fans and retailers alike made me realize that the New 52 hatred was completely blown out of proportion. I just think folks have a hard time when it comes to people who actually liked the New 52. Comic book fandom isn't a hive-mind thing.

I'm not going to pretend that the New 52 doesn't have a large contingent of fans. A lot of fans, I'm sure, started with the New 52 and if not for anything else that alone will be enough for them to be fans of it forever. But the sales boost it got seemed less to be about the ideas and stories the New 52 was telling and just...all the #1s, considering the precipitous sales drop that the New 52 had in such a short time. I imagine if the New 52 kept going strong they would've just kept calling it that instead of pulling out stunts like DC You and Rebirth despite being the same people the whole time.

[Dred]

"But the various editorial and creative teams didn’t work together and it was ultimately very confusing."

I don't get the impression that it was an edict that they don't work together, more like they just don't work together because it was so sudden and they had no time, at least initially.

Like she said, the order came from editorial, but each editors have their own interpretation of the order from the top so each of them gave different orders to the creative teams.

So they end up with Batman and Nightwing keeping their history but Simone was asked to do a Batgirl Year One

They have to do it quick since it was a sudden order, the editors are the ones doing the pitching to the writers, and since they're on schedule, each creative teams don't contact the other.

Simone said she wrote Batgirl like it's Year One (with Killing Joke as back story) at least up until issue #4 where Batman gave Barbara his approval as Batgirl
On the other hand, Higgins wrote Dick in Nightwing #1 like he just continued where he left off as Batman, but by issue #3 he's already been told that Dick's back story from Robin to Nightwing to Batman to Nightwing again was only 5 years old.
Years ago, when asked why he drew Dick so short in Batman #1, Greg Capullo said that he was told by editorial that Dick was only 19 years old, even though The Court of Owls story shows that Scott Snyder and Kyle Higgins were communicating with each other since issue #1.
Greg changed Dick's height immediately in issue #2.
(I don't remember when they established Dick as 21)

So they really flew by the seat of their pants, with the corrections only comes maybe the next month, after it's written, drawn, and printed.

This is the quote i'm talking about:

"Okay. Now, I want to say, this was probably mandated. I do not blame the editors.

But I am always suspicious when editors don;t want creatives talking to each other, I think it’s a bad practice.

And for a brief period, that was kind of company policy. "

Pretty expressly stating that they were mandated by the company not to let creatives talk to each other.

She also says it got better, but that (in her words) dictatorial editorial haranguing is bad no matter how you spin it. Especially considering how poorly editorial executed everything in the New 52.

[Restingvoice]

This is the quote i'm talking about:

"Okay. Now, I want to say, this was probably mandated. I do not blame the editors.

But I am always suspicious when editors don;t want creatives talking to each other, I think it’s a bad practice.

And for a brief period, that was kind of company policy. "

Pretty expressly stating that they were mandated by the company not to let creatives talk to each other.

Oh I didn't see that one

[skyvolt2000]

I don't do confirmation bias. I was knee-deep into comic book shops at the time and talking to fans and retailers alike made me realize that the New 52 hatred was completely blown out of proportion. I just think folks have a hard time when it comes to people who actually liked the New 52. Comic book fandom isn't a hive-mind thing.

Yet you are.

Folks were willing to give the books a shot including those books like I Vampire that were free of drama and were actual good reads.

Lets not sit up here and think Static fans were happy. Nor Wally West, Teen Titans, Jaime Reyes and others that show DC throw whatever they could find on the wall to see if it stuck.

Creators like George Perez were not leaving because they enjoyed it. They left because it was as what Gail is pointing out.

I was in comic book stores too and guess what folks were dumping DC titles.


We got told the New 52 was planned out yet we saw some messes. Books that had to be reedited when they became trades like Teen Titans.

If they had properly planned it out-guess what it might still be going.

[superduperman]

I think the New 52 was kind of necessary but let's not pretend that it was handled well. I can't help but think that if it was left in anyone's hands but Didio's it would have worked. Made up on the fly at cons suggest they really didn't know what they were doing and didn't plan anything out. It may have been Didio's idea but he really didn't know how to manage anything. It would be interesting to hear from someone who was actually working in editorial at that time what the backstory to all of this was. I love New 52 Superman's origin and wish that it had been kept. Maybe someday it will make a comeback.

[Restingvoice]

Yet you are.

Folks were willing to give the books a shot including those books like I Vampire that were free of drama and were actual good reads.

Lets not sit up here and think Static fans were happy. Nor Wally West, Teen Titans, Jaime Reyes and others that show DC throw whatever they could find on the wall to see if it stuck.

Creators like George Perez were not leaving because they enjoyed it. They left because it was as what Gail is pointing out.

I was in comic book stores too and guess what folks were dumping DC titles.


We got told the New 52 was planned out yet we saw some messes. Books that had to be reedited when they became trades like Teen Titans.

If they had properly planned it out-guess what it might still be going.

Speaking of Static, the writer for issue #8 onward Marc Bernardin also spill the tea of his experience on Twitter. It was bad.

"I showed up to lunch to get my marching orders. There was a surprise third person at lunch:
Assistant Editor Harvey Richards, who would actually be editing the book. Cool."

"Issue 8 was my first real go at Static. And Harvey made it awful. Edits that pulled the story in directions I didn’t like. Changes I didn’t agree with. Vetoing almost every decision I wanted to make. It got to the point where an email from him would make me physically sick."

https://twitter.com/marcbernardin/st...68145261379586

[Dred]

I think the New 52 was kind of necessary but let's not pretend that it was handled well. I can't help but think that if it was left in anyone's hands but Didio's it would have worked. Made up on the fly at cons suggest they really didn't know what they were doing and didn't plan anything out. It may have been Didio's idea but he really didn't know how to manage anything. It would be interesting to hear from someone who was actually working in editorial at that time what the backstory to all of this was. I love New 52 Superman's origin and wish that it had been kept. Maybe someday it will make a comeback.

This is probably putting the cart before the horse. Any reason the New 52 might've been needed was five years of Didio's leadership spiraling things. The New 52 couldn't be done without Didio because it necessitates him being in charge prior to needing it. If it was someone different then the New 52 might not have been "needed."

I mean it's so needed that everything about it was being trashed in 5 years and undone in 5 more. It certainly wasn't necessary in a creative sense, and in a sales sense I assume any doofus in charge can just say "Reboot everything, slap a bunch of #1s" and get some sales in the short term.

[sifighter]

Yeah I’m not going to completely trash the new 52, personally there were some great runs and honestly there are some characters that I honestly like more now thanks to the New 52, Swamp Thing, Aquaman, The Demon Knights, Dial H, I am Vampire, Snyder’s Batman, Morrison’s Action Comics, and even Barry Allen (I grew up and Wally had always been the Flash so New 52 was me really getting into Barry).

But personally I don’t think what we lost was worth what we got, characters and history just completely thrown out if not in limbo whether it existed in the first place. Just the Titans history alone was a headache. Not to mention that now a decade later it’s been undone with the stuff that worked surviving is kind of telling. I’m not going to deny it had it’s moments , and those who liked it are allowed to like it but personally let’s not do that again shall we.