Stephen Dorff BW garbage nonsense

[chicago_bastard]

...they never weren't.

I'm really confused as to when you think that "adult" dramas had the same footing as big money blockbusters at the cinemas...because that never actually happened in reality...ever. Serious dramas were always something that had fewer showings or were only screened in bigger cities that had theaters that specifically catered to a more art house clientele.

What time period do you think smaller films had more prominence?

The Godfather and its sequel were considered as blockbusters at their time. Turning point was when Spielberg and Lucas invented the modern summer blockbuster and mega franchises a couple years later.

[j9ac9k]

Pick a year, and pick a "serious" film that you believe had as much footing as the rest of the market and we'll see.

That Sturgeon's Law has been a thing for so long shows that it's known for a very good reason: it's true.

Sturgeon's "law" is not an argument but it clearly summarizes all you have to say. Got it.

[godisawesome]

It was the same pre-star wars too, for every "serious, adult drama" film there were ten that were what ever genre was popular then. The only thing you have right is that the theatrical window was longer but that doesn't have any bearing on the discussion at hand.

As someone who’s grandma always watched the Western channel, and have myself watched it, the western was easily a greater and more inescapable genre for the bulk of cinema history. Epic westerns, cheap westerns, singing cowboy westerns… hell, the 1950s saw a time when the most copied formula for a tv show was “tall actor in cowboy hat.”

And really, a lot of the same kind of “disdain vs disinterest” debate between genre films and “serious adult dramas” has existed since the days of stage plays; everyone keeps forgetting that before Shakespeare was the heart of English literature, it was the equivalent of popcorn entertainment. Genre fans and non-genre fans need to quit fighting each other and just admit that only time will identify what art is actually important.

[inisideguy]

I will say this when people claim there were all these awesome movies back in the day. If you actually look at the movies by Disney not including animated from about 1965 to 1985 or 1990 its pretty freaking rough. Granted thats just one studio but still.

[godisawesome]

I will say this when people claim there were all these awesome movies back in the day. If you actually look at the movies by Disney not including animated from about 1965 to 1985 or 1990 its pretty freaking rough. Granted thats just one studio but still.

I’d say proportionately, there’s been about the same amount of crap movies, decent movies, and great movies in every decade. And the passage of time still ends up being what really determines what films matter in the long run - blockbusters, cult classics, award winners, all end up having their actual long term value determined by time rather than the tastes of their contemporaries.

More than one Best Picture winner has been forgotten, more than one box office failure has become a cult classic, and more than one blockbuster has become the curriculum for art film classes.

[inisideguy]

I’d say proportionately, there’s been about the same amount of crap movies, decent movies, and great movies in every decade. And the passage of time still ends up being what really determines what films matter in the long run - blockbusters, cult classics, award winners, all end up having their actual long term value determined by time rather than the tastes of their contemporaries.

More than one Best Picture winner has been forgotten, more than one box office failure has become a cult classic, and more than one blockbuster has become the curriculum for art film classes.

Very true. No argument from me. I really can't say when there was a "golden age" I think like most things people look back and just remember the good stuff. Thats with anything.

[Alan2099]

One one hand we have Stephen Dorf (who nobody has ever cared about) saying Marvel movies are garbage.

On the other hand we have Samuel L. Jackson, Sir Anthony Hopkins, Sylvester Stallone, Kurt Russell, and Michael Douglas.

[inisideguy]

One one hand we have Stephen Dorf (who nobody has ever cared about) saying Marvel movies are garbage.

On the other hand we have Samuel L. Jackson, Sir Anthony Hopkins, Sylvester Stallone, Kurt Russell, and Michael Douglas.

I think what it boils down to is the same thing like when Punk Rockers wore Pink Floyd sucks t-shirts back in the late 70s. There is always a backlash against popular things. Which ok whatever. But going after Scarjo was really low. She has been in all kinds of movies.

[godisawesome]

Very true. No argument from me. I really can't say when there was a "golden age" I think like most things people look back and just remember the good stuff. Thats with anything.

I feel like Hollywood’s recollection of its “Golden Age” is less a matter of film quality overall, and more that the studios felt their most secure and in control in that time, that they’d cracked the code for what their then-blockbusters “should” make, how the stars “should” be perceived, etc. When the studio could declare a film “art,” have it rewarded as such, and collect popular money, with the actors they felt should be artists being perceived as such…. That’s their idea of a golden age.

I feel like some of the anti-MCU backlash is that it doesn’t fit the paradigm that some Hollywood people feel should be paramount - they have different ideas about what should or shouldn’t work, and the fact that the MCU seems to break those ideas so consistently can be maddening. It’s neither entirely studio driven nor entirely director driven, and acts like a combination anthology and serialized story world, and can overwhelm most other blockbusters and art films.

[thwhtGuardian]

Sturgeon's "law" is not an argument but it clearly summarizes all you have to say. Got it.

It summerizes the thrust of the argument nicely yes, that the conflict between "art" and commerce in films has always slid more towards commerce since film's invention and that's a well known fact so the burden is on you; pick a year and pick a "serious" film and I'll play too and I guarantee I'll find far more commercial films released that year that illustrate that the ratio has always been the same and that it's no harder now to find an "adult" film than it was in the past.

[j9ac9k]

It summerizes the thrust of the argument nicely yes, that the conflict between "art" and commerce in films has always slid more towards commerce since film's invention and that's a well known fact so the burden is on you; pick a year and pick a "serious" film and I'll play too and I guarantee I'll find far more commercial films released that year that illustrate that the ratio has always been the same and that it's no harder now to find an "adult" film than it was in the past.

You and I are talking about different things so there's no point.(I also don't see what your challenge would illustrate by having me pick just one movie) I already said that the simple number of films that came out "serious" v "genre" isn't the issue that some of those people are complaining about.

[thwhtGuardian]

You and I are talking about different things so there's no point.(I also don't see what your challenge would illustrate by having me pick just one movie) I already said that the simple number of films that came out "serious" v "genre" isn't the issue that some of those people are complaining about.

It's the very issue at the heart of the discussion, that there was a time when "serious adult films" were not hindered by more commercial genre films. If your point was different than that I apologize but that was the conversation going on.

[Pinsir]

So as I am writing this post, this dude's comments have attracted just as many posts as the spoiler thread for Black Widow...

[KCJ506]

On the other hand we have Samuel L. Jackson, Sir Anthony Hopkins, Sylvester Stallone, Kurt Russell, and Michael Douglas.

Don't forget Robert Redford.

[j9ac9k]

I'm sure Dorff is embarrassed for all of them (as he supposes how much money they all got paid) ...