Alt-Universe Thunderbird project?

[Big Joe]

I would think that would also be true. Why? I see it as a change for the better!

My view, and I think guys like Brohomo are likely to agree up to a point, is that we need more representation of all minorities in comics. We also need to fully respect the characters and history of the ones who exist already.

What have we got with this project? From what has been posted on this and other threads we have a complete rewrite of two minority representative characters. This rewrite changes their origin, their tribe, at least one of their powers and does away with their history completely.

We are told that it might have something to do with Marvel, but only in the vaguest terms. We're also told that any questions asked are rude and we're expected to heap praise on this guy and his boss regardless of whether it's a good idea or not.

Questions that have been asked are legitimate, but they're completely avoided. What is Marvel's involvement? Who has commissioned it? Hell, is it commissioned work or is it speculative? Why do you need to come here and ask about continuity when there's this huge connection to Marvel?

The content we know so far seems to be a complete rewrite of Thunderbird to make him an omega level mutant, and whilst inherently that's no bad thing, it doesn't fit with where he was, his attitude or the way he was originally written. That in itself also isn't necessarily a bad thing depending on where he's going to fit. It could be a bad thing for his brother who always has idolised him though.

It would appear from a lot of what I've read that this rewrite is a complete overhaul, except for the name of Thunderbird/John Proudstar, well, that being the case, create a new character, then you don't have to wipe out James's history as well.

As I've said before, I hope you get the audience you want, but it's definitely not for me. That's not rude by the way, and none of the post is rude. If someone wants interaction from people probably give and take is a good idea.

[GMikey]

New powers? Do you have a link? Also, wouldn't this revelation mean his brother is also "Pacific NW/Native Canadian".

I would think that would also be true. Why? I see it as a change for the better!

YES. John and James Proudstar would be both Pacific Native Canadian. this is to support Thunderbird's new narrative and lore by incorporating proper cultural mythos with the character. everyone that has seen it (in the think tank) fell in love with the changes overall, granting Thunderbird much greater significance, powers, and more interesting stories. I also like that there's a rivalry between John and James Proudstar, based in tragedy, misunderstandings, their cultrual omens, and issues rooted in the plight of all the Pacific Nations, looking to these two.

And the fact that John Proudstar is associated with the actual spiritual entity "Thunderbird", its place in the cosmos, the plight of the X-Men and mutants... it brings a lot of weight and development to John's character so... most everyone in the know is syked.

There WILL be links for everything, and links to everyone's character bios as well. These will develop as the narrative progresses too

[GMikey]

My view, and I think guys like Brohomo are likely to agree up to a point, is that we need more representation of all minorities in comics. We also need to fully respect the characters and history of the ones who exist already.

What have we got with this project? From what has been posted on this and other threads we have a complete rewrite of two minority representative characters. This rewrite changes their origin, their tribe, at least one of their powers and does away with their history completely.

We are told that it might have something to do with Marvel, but only in the vaguest terms. We're also told that any questions asked are rude and we're expected to heap praise on this guy and his boss regardless of whether it's a good idea or not.

Questions that have been asked are legitimate, but they're completely avoided. What is Marvel's involvement? Who has commissioned it? Hell, is it commissioned work or is it speculative? Why do you need to come here and ask about continuity when there's this huge connection to Marvel?

The content we know so far seems to be a complete rewrite of Thunderbird to make him an omega level mutant, and whilst inherently that's no bad thing, it doesn't fit with where he was, his attitude or the way he was originally written. That in itself also isn't necessarily a bad thing depending on where he's going to fit. It could be a bad thing for his brother who always has idolised him though.

It would appear from a lot of what I've read that this rewrite is a complete overhaul, except for the name of Thunderbird/John Proudstar, well, that being the case, create a new character, then you don't have to wipe out James's history as well.

As I've said before, I hope you get the audience you want, but it's definitely not for me. That's not rude by the way, and none of the post is rude. If someone wants interaction from people probably give and take is a good idea.

I don't know if we've had an encounter before... if this is our first lets make this a GOOD one.

so you seem to want to be respectful and rly have questions about it regardless if your interested or not, and i'm happy to answer all I can.

Let me first address other commenters that have been combative. I have NO problems with ppl chanllenging my or my boss' opinions. i welcome the challenge SO LONG as ppl arent using demeaning and confrontational language. thats when i push back bc it no longer seems like someone is legit challenging the opinion or proposed changes its all about discrediting my opinon and using very manipulative language to put words in my mouth and things like that. so I DO welcome the challenge, but dont be condescending and rude, and i'm fine with the convo.

Now let's answer the questions...

The project is an animated series, serving as a whole multiverse of different stories all part of one big narrative. there's a special role in it for Marvel fans and its why so many are rdy to plug into it. Originally it was NOT associated with Marvel in anyway, but the chief writer always felt that Marvel could discvoer this and well... that has happened. After Marvel Studios appointed her as an admin for their official private group, they got in wind of a "Marvel project" and several personnel have been asking about it. the writer insists that she launches it first so they can see it in action BEFORE discussing any real involvement. But several personnel are anticipating this project's launch.

About continuity... it's its own multiverse that doesnt derive from any canon timelines, but does glean from them somewhat. Thunderbird isnt the only character that changes, and many changes CAME FROM the suggestions and requests of fans. I havent talked about Loki and how much HE in this is vastly differnt from canon.

About Thunderbird's changes... so the writer felt that John Proudstar could use "an upgrade", and did a lot of research for the new concept. she wanted to have him be "Thunderbird" with cultural impact and weight to his new narrative and mutant powers. In her research she found Apache were "Eagle" oriented and had little to do with the actual Thunderbird mythos. THAT'S WHY she changed his tribe to being Ojibwa, to be TRUE to their Native representation, she chose a tribe whose whole culture focuses a lot on the Thunderbird. this allows his new narrative to derive from real native mythos, which vastly enhances him as a Native American superhero, letting him explore the spiritual world and powers of the Thunderbird, and with his soul tied to a powerful cosmic/spirit "The Thunderbird". This is the reason too he's an omega level "high or highest order" mutant with geomagnetic powers.

For concerns regarding "disrespecting" the original Thunderbird hero... the writer FOUND some Native American comic fans, who totally embraced and sanctioned the overhaul. They were all from varying tribes (Ojibwa included) and each even contributed ideas from their culture FOR the new Thunderbird. If anything they were happy and expressed excitement to see a hero representing them as Native Americans, reinvented to explore their culture more, and properly match the Thunderbird of their myths.

So is it an overhaul? Yes it is. Am i saying its the best route to take? so far the vast majority did like the changes, and cant wait for more. I can totally appreciate ppl that loved the canon Thunderbird, and I will say again, this IS NOT reflective of Earth616, but instead an entire world of its own. if its not your cup of tea, that's no problem, ive run into a few that wer that way. but even naysayers from early on saw the power and potential of the project, and giving it a second chance have gained interest. whatever suggestions or critiques that are respectfully presented are welcomed and I do share them with all creators involved

[BroHomo]

My view, and I think guys like Brohomo are likely to agree up to a point, is that we need more representation of all minorities in comics. We also need to fully respect the characters and history of the ones who exist already.

What have we got with this project? From what has been posted on this and other threads we have a complete rewrite of two minority representative characters. This rewrite changes their origin, their tribe, at least one of their powers and does away with their history completely.

We are told that it might have something to do with Marvel, but only in the vaguest terms. We're also told that any questions asked are rude and we're expected to heap praise on this guy and his boss regardless of whether it's a good idea or not.

Questions that have been asked are legitimate, but they're completely avoided. What is Marvel's involvement? Who has commissioned it? Hell, is it commissioned work or is it speculative? Why do you need to come here and ask about continuity when there's this huge connection to Marvel?





As I've said before, I hope you get the audience you want, but it's definitely not for me. That's not rude by the way, and none of the post is rude. If someone wants interaction from people probably give and take is a good idea.

Yes! This is exactly what Im trying to get at sans all the 'confrontation'

It is kinda irksome to have Another NA character tied to the mysticism or totems of their tribe. Like if mutations are random what's the chances of a is developing powers specific to their 'culture'? Like if DJ was black and could only shoot Ray's/regenerate etc when listening to rap or r&b music lol

[GMikey]

Yes! This is exactly what Im trying to get at sans all the 'confrontation'

It is kinda irksome to have Another NA character tied to the mysticism or totems of their tribe. Like if mutations are random what's the chances of a is developing powers specific to their 'culture'? Like if DJ was black and could only shoot Ray's/regenerate etc when listening to rap or r&b music lol

Well... there's Forge and there's Echo as examples of Native characters that don't go that direction in this narrative, but there's a hero NAMED Thunderbird, NAMED after a very iconic to cultural mythos and beliefs, and the character DOESN'T reflect that? That's like naming a character "Thor" but not allowing that hero have anything to do with the mythos behind that name. the writer is NOT saying that characters MUST reflect their culture all the time, and she explores plenty of heroes not "tied" to their cultural background. its just for THUNDERBIRD she rather go this route, and many support this decision, and everyone that was NATIVE AMERICAN THEMSELVES supported this overhaul, and anticipate it.

And if the target demographic OF said hero accepted his change to match what his codename is, then I dont see a reason for this argument.

[Drexelhand]

Quite honestly, if somebody with your bad attitude is promoting this project - which nothing has been officially confirmed about - on behalf of your boss - whom you claim was approached by Marvel - before an official announcement, I wouldn't be surprised if your actions cause her to lose the project.

[CGAR]

Actually Im so indifferent to this character that I rescind my comment.

Good for him though if hes getting more exposure.

[GMikey]

Quite honestly, if somebody with your bad attitude is promoting this project - which nothing has been officially confirmed about - on behalf of your boss - whom you claim was approached by Marvel - before an official announcement, I wouldn't be surprised if your actions cause her to lose the project.

where has MY attitude been bad? I started of totally friendly and amiable, but when others start speaking in demeaning terms, being condescending, naysaying and such, then of course I will respond. I had a similar convo with someone speaking to me about Jean Grey, and they were totally NOT being disrespectful, and we had a very civil debate and conversation about Jean Grey, the best route for her character to take and such. Here, it's been very different. Its not about debating or disagreeing anymore, but about blindly shooting something down, because it deviates from canon. That's not cool.

And you're here wishing for her to be fired and "lose the project"? WOW

The project will be successful, regardless. The FANS support it, that's enough for success. I can only hope for it to exceed expectations, and with the ppl I've spoken with that ARE supportive and seek to offer constructive critiques, I see it that doing just that.

[Big Joe]

I read Drexelhand's post earlier, and I've just read it again, a couple of times, just to be sure about what I'm going to say here. In no way did he want your boss to be fired from her job, or lose the project.

He said that your attitude and actions could lead to that happening. I think putting words in his mouth, and making things up about what he said are examples of what he meant about the attitude you're showing on here.

I'm happy to debate with you, I'm happy to disagree with anyone in a civil way, but I'd be very unhappy if someone I was debating with twisted my words and meaning in the way you just have there.

Look, I think detail is needed on all of this. I think we probably want to know exactly what Marvel's involvement is. I think people are, and have, asked legitimate questions here and you've refused to take the opportunity to answer them.

I think your last post was, at best, unfortunate. I think you probably need to withdraw what you accused him of saying, because quite obviously it's not what he said.

[Drexelhand]

where has MY attitude been bad? I started of totally friendly and amiable, but when others start speaking in demeaning terms, being condescending, naysaying and such, then of course I will respond. I had a similar convo with someone speaking to me about Jean Grey, and they were totally NOT being disrespectful, and we had a very civil debate and conversation about Jean Grey, the best route for her character to take and such. Here, it's been very different. Its not about debating or disagreeing anymore, but about blindly shooting something down, because it deviates from canon. That's not cool.

And you're here wishing for her to be fired and "lose the project"? WOW

The project will be successful, regardless. The FANS support it, that's enough for success. I can only hope for it to exceed expectations, and with the ppl I've spoken with that ARE supportive and seek to offer constructive critiques, I see it that doing just that.

I shouldn't need to say this, but... no, I'm pointing out that if somebody like you, who misconstrues people's comments, tries gaslighting regarding his own behavior online and continues to act in a rude passive-aggressive manner (all seen in the post I'm replying to if you ask for proof), continues to represent this person's project, then I wouldn't be surprised if she does lose it because Marvel obviously can't expect her staff to act cordially in regard to said project.

I read Drexelhand's post earlier, and I've just read it again, a couple of times, just to be sure about what I'm going to say here. In no way did he want your boss to be fired from her job, or lose the project.

He said that your attitude and actions could lead to that happening. I think putting words in his mouth, and making things up about what he said are examples of what he meant about the attitude you're showing on here.

I'm happy to debate with you, I'm happy to disagree with anyone in a civil way, but I'd be very unhappy if someone I was debating with twisted my words and meaning in the way you just have there.

Look, I think detail is needed on all of this. I think we probably want to know exactly what Marvel's involvement is. I think people are, and have, asked legitimate questions here and you've refused to take the opportunity to answer them.

I think your last post was, at best, unfortunate. I think you probably need to withdraw what you accused him of saying, because quite obviously it's not what he said.

Exactly.

[Gripstir]

So I just want to add a bit. GMikey does a lot of good things bringing the project to fans and takes input to incorporate. He's organized and will 100% be open and honest about the project. He is willing to change ideas if you have disagreements. Ive talked to him a bit and his passion on this project and trying to do it right is something you will absolutely see if you simply talk to him.


So now that I said that I'd like to put my two cents on a few things.

1. That changing Thunderbirds nationality will be disrespectful to people of those tribes who get erased. My take on this is that I think artists can change things to improve a character. I don't think there are many that say Thunderbird is their favorite character. I don't think anyone would say he is perfect as is. Changing something for a reason is ok. I personally don't think he needs to be historically accurate and I think writers sometimes miss good fantasy elements when trying to be too accurate to real life. But at the same time if a character isn't your favorite maybe it's not best to get mad about a change. If you genuinely loved the character as is then I would think the outrage is more warrented. But sometimes "ally outrage" can be a bad thing because you often try to get angry for others when the others are never really angry. The only anger may come from advocacy groups, not the actual people who read stories.

2. I do need to say though while I'm proud of the project seeing how close Marvel is officially getting to the lead writer and the project does make me a bit more hesitant to give ideas. Marvel is not a company I trust atm. And not just a couple employees. I don't trust the overall culture of Marvel. It bothers me how Marvel have completely threw away their comic profitability for the sake of pushing comics as a storyboard for movies. Marvel comics atm are nothing more than a way to protect their movies from criticism because so many fans will say "that's how it was in the comics". I don't like the culture of Marvel to support positive fans but actively go out of their way to degrade and insult fans who have issues with what's happening. The storytelling in Marvel comics has made me essentially tune out of comics all together lately. And during the last year I was really trying to find something that spoke to me to keep my spirits up I learned about how Marvel works which is that they don't offer you money they offer you perks as a way to butter you up to get what they really want from you, so an admin on an official Marvel fan site just makes me feel it's only a matter of time before this project starts getting influenced by Marvel itself, a company that keeps driving their readers to other mediums like manga because the Marvel writers have become a little bit of an echo chamber and run by people who want to be picked up by Hollywood.

I think Gmikey and I talked a little bit before about my fears of allowing official Marvel employees and Marvel itself influence things. Even if they allow the story to go on I know they are doing it to watch the reaction then they will come in and start forcing the Marvel storytelling stuff into the project. I really want to be part of the project but knowing how strong the allure is to get into Marvels inner circle it makes me worry if this will be a fan project at all after a little while or will it become absorbed and influenced by Marvel themselves. They have their own official comics to tell their own stories. The fact they are coming to a fan project is actually a red flag in my view more than a blessing.

anyway those are a couple of my thoughts after reading through the thread. If you guys do want to participate in the project GMikey is a great guy to talk to, just give your thoughts and he will take them under advisement. He's sincere when he says he's looking for feedback so if the project is something you are interested in you're gonna get a lot of info from him (trust me he really will give you all the info )