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  1. #1
    The Last Dragon masterwitcher88's Avatar
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    Default Character Flaws - Diana

    What sort of character flaws do/would you want Diana to have? What are the flaws that she learns and grows from? which ones are flaws that she should have forever?
    Zaldrīzes Buzdari Iksos Daor

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Not exactly a flaw but if she grew up in an island full of women then she would see relationships between women as normal and would view women as the default like how a lot of people assume men are the default IRL. So I can see her being a little surprised at times because she's always subconsciously expecting to see a woman every time she goes to meet a higher up or assuming that when somebody mentions they are in a relationship that it was a same sex relationship.

    In the beginning I imagine she would be very trusting and naive of the outside world. Maybe a bit too trusting. Especially of women. We saw in Perez's run how Barbara Minerva took advantage of this. If she comes from a place where everyone trusts each other, expects the best of each other and support each other then I imagine the frustration she would experience would be more than what a regular person would feel when she sees people do the opposite. I also think that seeing all the different cultures and customs around the world would be exciting for her at first but at some point all the contradictory beliefs, customs, expectations and the complexity of inter cultural relationships would become dizzying for her. Also I don't think she ever heard anyone criticize Themyscira when she grew up there and while I don't think she would be hostile towards any comments, it would be a new experience for her to process.
    Last edited by John Venus; 07-06-2021 at 04:15 AM.

  3. #3
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Talk too much.




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    Astonishing Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    A consequence of her warm and loving nature is she forms emotional bonds with people she simply doesn't have the time to maintain. She'll give you great life changing advice that makes you feel close to her and like the only person in her world, then she'll disappear on you as she goes off to save the day for someone else. Normally that's fine and you can move on and get over it, unless knowing her causes one of her enemies to take an interest in you.

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    The Last Dragon masterwitcher88's Avatar
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    My favorite written version of the character is Rucka's first run and I know a lot of people that say his Diana is basically Perez's Diana but older and wiser. But, I'd also be hard pressed to say that that she doesn't comes off as.... flawless? I mean, I love the situations she is placed in and her decisions that she makes, its compelling and true to character but, maybe I'm just not noticing anything she does as "flawed".
    Zaldrīzes Buzdari Iksos Daor

  6. #6
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterwitcher88 View Post
    My favorite written version of the character is Rucka's first run and I know a lot of people that say his Diana is basically Perez's Diana but older and wiser. But, I'd also be hard pressed to say that that she doesn't comes off as.... flawless? I mean, I love the situations she is placed in and her decisions that she makes, its compelling and true to character but, maybe I'm just not noticing anything she does as "flawed".






    Would Perez’s Diana have flaws if she wasn’t naďve?

    Though, one flaw I like Diana being depicted with and overcoming is that she was kind-of a spoil brat as a kid.
    Last edited by I'm a Fish; 07-06-2021 at 04:41 PM.

  7. #7
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    You could make it so that Diana can't live up to her claim that she loves everyone. Well, to clarify, this isn't a flaw itself since loving everyone is impossible but Diana doesn't know that at first.

    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    A consequence of her warm and loving nature is she forms emotional bonds with people she simply doesn't have the time to maintain. She'll give you great life changing advice that makes you feel close to her and like the only person in her world, then she'll disappear on you as she goes off to save the day for someone else. Normally that's fine and you can move on and get over it, unless knowing her causes one of her enemies to take an interest in you.
    That... doesn't seem like a flaw. More like an occurrence she has no control over.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 07-07-2021 at 12:52 AM.

  8. #8
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    I was re reading the William Messner-Loebs story for "Dc Retrospective: Wonder Woman 90s", where Diana trains a group of girl scouts, and one of the things I like is the idea that Diana can be too forceful at times.

    I love the Marston stories where Diana was always training the Holliday Girls in science and athletics, and this story with the girl scouts is very much in that vein, but it does introduce this idea that Diana's enthusiasm for you to challenge yourself can sometimes push you too hard. Diana isn't an overdemanding parent, but her enthusiasm about you being able to do anything isn't always realistic, or at least isn't always what you're ready to hear.

    This could apply in areas other than her training. It couls be about emotional breakthroughs. Sometimes a person just doesn't want to face her demons, and maybe Diana isn't delicate enough in that sense. After all, her rope is all about the scary truths. Of course she gets better at it the more experience she has, but whenever she forgets it kind of hurts her because she doesn't like driving people away or into their own failure.
    Last edited by Alpha; 07-22-2021 at 05:08 PM.

  9. #9
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    When it comes to stuff like this, I like it when flaws flows organically in some way from the character, and can be either a virtue or a flaw depending on the context, the situation, and the exact state of mind.

    Looking at the list of the seven deadly sins, I think expressions of wrath and pride are the two most natural for Diana. She should have a lot of passion. Likewise, I think she should be proud of her origin and upbringing, and be very aware of her own powers and capabilities, and that can at times strike out into overconfidence or arrogance, especially as interpreted by those around her.

    Come to think of it, that's another way to look at why the first Wonder Woman movie worked in a way that the second one didn't. Wonder Woman in the first movie carried passion first, with anger (though usually controlled until the very end) breaking through in various ways, and her pride had a tendency to turn into arrogance at times. But the second movie presented a Diana who was depressed (sadness or dejection), and it couldn't make it work.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    When it comes to stuff like this, I like it when flaws flows organically in some way from the character, and can be either a virtue or a flaw depending on the context, the situation, and the exact state of mind.

    Looking at the list of the seven deadly sins, I think expressions of wrath and pride are the two most natural for Diana. She should have a lot of passion. Likewise, I think she should be proud of her origin and upbringing, and be very aware of her own powers and capabilities, and that can at times strike out into overconfidence or arrogance, especially as interpreted by those around her.

    Come to think of it, that's another way to look at why the first Wonder Woman movie worked in a way that the second one didn't. Wonder Woman in the first movie carried passion first, with anger (though usually controlled until the very end) breaking through in various ways, and her pride had a tendency to turn into arrogance at times. But the second movie presented a Diana who was depressed (sadness or dejection), and it couldn't make it work.
    Honest question. are you trying to say we should never portray Diana as depressed? Because that sounds unnecessarily limiting?

  11. #11
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Shouldn't Diana have a powerful resistance to depression though? Shouldn't she be one of the characters with most self love and enthusiasm and optimism? She was raised on an island where everyone bathed herói in love and adoration. Everyone always told her that "she's all that" and for once, SHE ACTUALLY WAS all that.

    It's one of the reasons why I have a hard time enjoying the Perez/ Jimenez take on the character. She lacks that vivaciousness.

    I did like WW84so I'm still able to enjoy stories where Diana doesn't really act like I want her to.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Shouldn't Diana have a powerful resistance to depression though? Shouldn't she be one of the characters with most self love and enthusiasm and optimism? She was raised on an island where everyone bathed herói in love and adoration. Everyone always told her that "she's all that" and for once, SHE ACTUALLY WAS all that.
    It isn't like she only stayed on the island her entire life.
    It's one of the reasons why I have a hard time enjoying the Perez/ Jimenez take on the character. She lacks that vivaciousness.
    Seems to me like Perez and Jiminez just realized Diana isn't a one-dimensional person with a singular mode and experiences a variety of emotions like anyone else.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 07-23-2021 at 02:54 AM.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Honest question. are you trying to say we should never portray Diana as depressed? Because that sounds unnecessarily limiting?
    No, I'm not. Rather that portraying a depressed Diana is working against the character rather than with the character, and thus it's a lot harder to do and easily makes her appear out of character.

    If I look at dejection as a sin, I think Batman is a much more natural character to use.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  14. #14
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    It isn't like she only stayed on the island her entire life.


    Seems to me like Perez and Jiminez just realized Diana isn't a one-dimensional person with a singular mode and experiences a variety of emotions like anyone else.
    I mean, the Perez version of Diana is much less complex than Gail Simone, William Messner-Loebs, or Greg Rucka.

    To be clear, I really like the Jiminez run. I just don't think that take on Diana is very charismatic. The Lois Lane interview is the perfect example of Diana having a lot of good qualities, but not being engaging to me. His take on Donna Troy however is totally on point.
    Last edited by Alpha; 07-23-2021 at 04:05 AM.

  15. #15
    Just crumbs...... BiteTheBullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    I mean, the Perez version of Diana is much less complex than Gail Simone, William Messner-Loebs, or Greg Rucka.

    To be clear, I really like the Jiminez run. I just don't think that take on Diana is very charismatic. The Lois Lane interview is the perfect example of Diana having a lot of good qualities, but not being engaging to me. His take on Donna Troy however is totally on point.
    I don't understand where you say Diana in the Perez run is less complex than the others you speak of. Can you site proof or examples of what you are saying. Otherwise, Perez is the foundation in which many of the writers based their Diana on.

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