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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by HestiasHearth View Post
    What book is it in which Silver Banshee defeats Diana? Isn't Silver Banshee typically a Supergirl villain? If SB can go mano a mano with a yellow-sun-powered Kryptonian, I don't think it's outrageous to think she can inflict pain on Wonder Woman.
    It wasn't Silver Banshee. It was Jeannette who is A banshee and has similar powers. It happened in Secret Six #12



    Her banshee wail made Diana experience her death, which--similar to how its described in the Superman pic above--put WW down pretty hard for a period. It also wound up knocking Jeannette herself out, which was why she only busted it out in an emergency (Diana was kicking her ass pretty thoroughly until that point).
    "Never place your trust in us. We're only human. Inevitably, we will disappoint you."


  2. #62
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HestiasHearth View Post
    What book is it in which Silver Banshee defeats Diana? Isn't Silver Banshee typically a Supergirl villain? If SB can go mano a mano with a yellow-sun-powered Kryptonian, I don't think it's outrageous to think she can inflict pain on Wonder Woman.
    Yeah, it was a different Banshee but with a scream just as powerful, she also took Wonder Woman completely be surprise.

    Whatever faults Simone's writing has, I don't think power-scaling is one of them. Not from any of her work I have read, anyway.

    Last edited by I'm a Fish; 07-23-2021 at 03:05 PM.
    ~I just keep swimming through these threads~

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    "Before I forget about Mercy, about honor, where is my mother"

    "Feel free to get up again coward. And I'll happily show you what Max learned to his regret"

    "Assuming you don't mind being a castrati afterwards of course" (what exactly was she gonna do to his neck brah?)

    "I am Wonder Woman and you've managed to make me slightly peeved"

    "Hello Nazi... You'll forgive me if I take offense"

    I don't recall a single moment of sass or brutal threats or bravado in the Perez run. To be clear, Simone also had moments where Diana talked about peace instead of violence, and other stuff like that, but she was constantly being sassy and agressive without regretting what she did.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Tell that to Evagrius Ponticus.
    I don't think a 4th century monk is the best expert on this subject.

    Of course it's not impossible to tell such a story. All I've said is that the writer has set a higher bar for themselves in terms of character work than if they want to present a Diana who is angry or prideful.
    I don't think that's really the case or that's all there is to it. It is something that certain people might object to on principle but such a story isn't inherently more difficult than portraying Diana as angry or prideful (which doesn't make her any more compelling and has been the source of some dumb characterization plenty of times).

  5. #65
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I don't see the resemblance. It's exactly what I talked about in terms of Diana's agression always being interjected by her stating how she doesn't like violence and only does ot out of necessity. But I do suppose the clause I had about Diana always regretting doesn't have every time.

    Still, those quotes I posted of Simone's Diana show her actively mocking others with threats of agression.
    Last edited by Alpha; 07-24-2021 at 03:10 AM.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    I don't see the resemblance. It's exactly what I talked about in terms of Diana's agression always being interjected by her stating how she doesn't like violence and only does ot out of necessity. But I do suppose the claude I had about Diana always regretting isn't actually always.

    Still, those quotes I posted of Simone's Diana show her actively mocking others with threats of agression.
    Mocking others with acts of aggression is more Artemis's thing anyway.

  7. #67
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Mocking others with acts of aggression is more Artemis's thing anyway.
    I mean, it's how Simone wrote Diana and it's why I couldn't disagree more when people say Simone's Diana was a continuation of the Perez take. But there's a reason why I also don't love Simone's voice for Diana.

    I also don't think Rucka's 2000s voice for Diana is a continuation of Perez because of stories like Hiketeia. Perez would never have Diana put her foot on top of Batman's head as he lies on the ground and say

    "Don't
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    Up"

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterwitcher88 View Post
    What sort of character flaws do/would you want Diana to have? What are the flaws that she learns and grows from? which ones are flaws that she should have forever?
    I like what Rucka was flirting with during the latter half of the run. During his run he highlights the wisdom of Athena and the confidence borne of her knowledge of herself and her origins(designed by Gods). While the Powers that Be screwed him over it would have been interesting to see the study play out.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    I mean, it's how Simone wrote Diana and it's why I couldn't disagree more when people say Simone's Diana was a continuation of the Perez take. But there's a reason why I also don't love Simone's voice for Diana.

    I also don't think Rucka's 2000s voice for Diana is a continuation of Perez because of stories like Hiketeia. Perez would never have Diana put her foot on top of Batman's head as he lies on the ground and say

    "Don't
    Get
    Up"
    I just showed you an image of Diana cutting off a person's head. What Rucka had Diana do to Bruce is tame in comparison.

  10. #70
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    I don't see the resemblance. It's exactly what I talked about in terms of Diana's agression always being interjected by her stating how she doesn't like violence and only does ot out of necessity. But I do suppose the claude I had about Diana always regretting isn't actually always.

    Still, those quotes I posted of Simone's Diana show her actively mocking others with threats of agression.

    As much as I think your claims are false, baseless and rooted in personal bias, the subject of whether Diana sounded different in Simone and Rucka's runs compared to Perez's sounds like the topic of an entirely different thread and not the one designated to discuss her character flaws.

    Same goes for the power level debates. If you guys want to discuss Diana's power level then take it to it's appropriate thread.

  11. #71
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I just showed you an image of Diana cutting off a person's head. What Rucka had Diana do to Bruce is tame in comparison.
    Violence is necessary. Humiliation is never necessary. Perez never had Diana humiliate another person.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    As much as I think your claims are false, baseless and rooted in personal bias, the subject of whether Diana sounded different in Simone and Rucka's runs compared to Perez's sounds like the topic of an entirely different thread and not the one designated to discuss her character flaws.

    [/I][/B].
    I'm just responding the rebuttals. And with each of my comments I am also describing the flaws in each version of Diana.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I just showed you an image of Diana cutting off a person's head. What Rucka had Diana do to Bruce is tame in comparison.
    Yeah, Perez's Diana could get rather temperamental at times that I can see carrying over Diana getting her patience tested by Bruce under Rucka.


  13. #73
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Yeah, Perez's Diana could get rather temperamental at times that I can see carrying over Diana getting her patience tested by Bruce under Rucka.
    I guess there's no point in arguing about this. I fully concede that the Perez incarnation of Diana would relunctually use agression and sometimes even get angry enough to be violent, but I think that's very different from humiliating another human being. I guess you guys think agression and humiliation are closely linked so there's no way I can convince you otherwise.
    Last edited by Alpha; 07-24-2021 at 06:29 AM.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    I guess there's no point in arguing about this. I fully concede that the Perez incarnation of Diana would relunctually use agression and sometimes even get angry enough to be violent, but I think that's very different from humiliating another human being. I guess you guys think agression and humiliation are closely linked so there's no way I can convince you otherwise.
    In the context of the story I was fine with it.

    Given this is about Diana’s flaws, her loosing her patience in this instance could be an example.
    ~I just keep swimming through these threads~

  15. #75
    Astonishing Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    You could make it so that Diana can't live up to her claim that she loves everyone. Well, to clarify, this isn't a flaw itself since loving everyone is impossible but Diana doesn't know that at first.



    That... doesn't seem like a flaw. More like an occurrence she has no control over.
    Of course it doesn't seem like a flaw to you, but it does to someone effected by it. Vanessa Kapatelis thought it was a flaw and so did her mother Julia. Judging by Orlando's issue with her, Mayfly would think it was a flaw too. Diana spent years becoming a major part of her life but hasn't seen her since.

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