X-men #1 reviews (spoilers)

[Mercury]

[Jean] articulated that idea in X-Men: Red indeed, but she also said: "And every time mutants have come together to live in one place -- Genosha, Utopia -- we have simply made ourselves a bigger target. Whenever mutantkind tried to live alone, apart, we have been slaughtered".

So I still don't know who is that Jean Grey living in Krakoa, but her dream in X-Men: Red wasn't about portals and an island. It was about actually living amongst the gene-typical humans as equals ("I'd like to show you. A world where no one is left behind. Where no one is shunned. Where no one is less than. No humans and mutants. No us and them. Just "us"."), while being considered a nation made of its people so they could have a voice on global politics.

It's not the same at all.

This is an astute point, GS, and though I could come up with reasons for her sudden shift, I would like to ponder this for a while.

[JB]

Realistically why on Earth would and government NOT want the gates, at least once they get past knee jerk reactions. I understand the issues raised, but think about it from the perspective of a government within the Marvel Universe, not the real world. Without getting into every specific example, the various superhero AND supervillain teams have had the capability of superfast and unfettered travel to anywhere on earth regardless of borders long before the Krakoan era (blackbirds, quinjets, Fantasti-Car, superspeed, super-speeded individual flight, etc...). Then, even without those, you also have the preponderance of teleporters and teleportation devices. The concepts of "borders" as a requirement for national defense is a bigger joke in the MU than superhero death is, even if its not as frequently spelled out.

On the flip side, by accepting the Krakoan gates you have an official port of entry and a probable diplomatic agreement that the Krakoan's would generally restrict their own travel to the gates (Why fly/fly a blackbird etc... when you can use a gate) That alone, without any other kind of consideration, would be reason enough for a country who is at least not openly hostile to allow the gates. This would be even more true if the host country has the ability to restrict gate locations. If nothing else the host country can at least monitor gate traffic on their side.

I'm not saying they would be happy about them, but even without Krakoan drugs an official (even if seriously a-typical) port of entry is infinitely preferable over not having one, especially when the Krakoans are not restricted to traditional modes of transportation.

All great points. Your posts always pull me in.

[pkingdom]

Realistically why on Earth would and government NOT want the gates, at least once they get past knee jerk reactions. I understand the issues raised, but think about it from the perspective of a government within the Marvel Universe, not the real world. Without getting into every specific example, the various superhero AND supervillain teams have had the capability of superfast and unfettered travel to anywhere on earth regardless of borders long before the Krakoan era (blackbirds, quinjets, Fantasti-Car, superspeed, super-speeded individual flight, etc...). Then, even without those, you also have the preponderance of teleporters and teleportation devices. The concepts of "borders" as a requirement for national defense is a bigger joke in the MU than superhero death is, even if its not as frequently spelled out.

On the flip side, by accepting the Krakoan gates you have an official port of entry and a probable diplomatic agreement that the Krakoan's would generally restrict their own travel to the gates (Why fly/fly a blackbird etc... when you can use a gate) That alone, without any other kind of consideration, would be reason enough for a country who is at least not openly hostile to allow the gates. This would be even more true if the host country has the ability to restrict gate locations. If nothing else the host country can at least monitor gate traffic on their side.

I'm not saying they would be happy about them, but even without Krakoan drugs an official (even if seriously a-typical) port of entry is infinitely preferable over not having one, especially when the Krakoans are not restricted to traditional modes of transportation.

That argument only makes sense if the gates were actually treated like every other port of entry. As in, surrounded with security and with tons of checks on everyone and everything going in and out. And then there's the fact that the gates only work for mutants. An entire mutant army could just waltz in any nobody on the other side of the gate could do anything about it. The couple of nations we've seen that actually have their gates with weapons aimed at them are treated like the bad guys. And that's not even getting into that the X-men have just been planting them all over the place with no limitations on how, when and why. And again, the plants are known to be invasive and can spread and grow rapidly.

Everyone has their suspension of disbelief limits, and this entire setup requires a lot of leaps. But its more of an issue for me because the story wants to be taken as a more serious thing than the past 'mutant nations', on top of having an aspect of political thrillers. So when they do things that would be ludicrous for nation relations I just facepalm.

[Grinning Soul]

This is an astute point, GS, and though I could come up with reasons for her sudden shift, I would like to ponder this for a while.

But you shouldn't have to come up with it, Mercury. Character motivation (especially if there is such "sudden shift" as you put) is the kind of thing that should be made clear by the writers right away. Unless she's not really Jean and that's part of a big reveal. But it's been what? 2 years now? Time to show us what is going on either way, no?

[Mercury]

But you shouldn't have to come up with it, Mercury. Character motivation (especially if there is such "sudden shift" as you put) is the kind of thing that should be made clear by the writers right away. Unless she's not really Jean and that's part of a big reveal. But it's been what? 2 years now? Time to show us what is going on either way, no?

No, fans "shouldn't have to come up with" reasons for a character's sudden shift(s), but, then again, sometimes writers maintain enough ambiguity in their stories and characterizations to later "fill in the gaps" or to provide future writers with jumping-off points for their own stories and characterizations.

Since I have been away from comic books for so long - I am still catching up - I am not exactly sure what immediately preceded Hickman's run. I suppose an analysis of what is currently going on with the characters should start with examining what was going on with them right before he began writing the X-titles. This would allow for a proper assessment of just how far these characters have strayed from their previous, or most common, incarnations.

In either case, I did read X-Men: Red and can see what you mean when you point out Jean's modus operandi in that series as compared to this run. I'm not going to offer a substantial motive or characterization right now, but I can see Jean deciding to join the Krakoan efforts in an attempt to work for "the greater good." Of course, there are still aspects of this operation that would conflict with her ideals and morals, but I can definitely see her making a justifiable decision to join these efforts without it completely conflicting with and contradicting who she is as a character.

Then again, maybe Hickman simply decided to reinvent the wheel, and those aspects of the X-Men mythos and characters that seem to conflict and contradict his current interpretation of both are simply expected to be forgotten.

[Kisinith]

That argument only makes sense if the gates were actually treated like every other port of entry. As in, surrounded with security and with tons of checks on everyone and everything going in and out. And then there's the fact that the gates only work for mutants. An entire mutant army could just waltz in any nobody on the other side of the gate could do anything about it. The couple of nations we've seen that actually have their gates with weapons aimed at them are treated like the bad guys. And that's not even getting into that the X-men have just been planting them all over the place with no limitations on how, when and why. And again, the plants are known to be invasive and can spread and grow rapidly.

Everyone has their suspension of disbelief limits, and this entire setup requires a lot of leaps. But its more of an issue for me because the story wants to be taken as a more serious thing than the past 'mutant nations', on top of having an aspect of political thrillers. So when they do things that would be ludicrous for nation relations I just facepalm.

You mean like the ones shown to be set up in Central Park in Marauders?
1.jpg

I mean I suppose it could be considered vitally important every time they want to move the mutants somewhere to make sure they spend page time making sure they aren't smuggling undeclared fruit into the country or something...

[pkingdom]

The Central Park gate is definitely more realistic than the many many we've seen under piers, in fields, etc. I'm willing to forgive it being in the middle of Central Park because, well, comic books.

[Outburstz]

The Central Park gate is definitely more realistic than the many many we've seen under piers, in fields, etc. I'm willing to forgive it being in the middle of Central Park because, well, comic books.

You can not expect these governments to monitor every gate that gets put up in their boarders it's silly. Those gates can be put up anywhere at any time they have an endless supply. In a basement in a building in a cave on a roof in a tree, in lake.

So you have this notion of "oh the governments shouldn't allow them to have the gates" pffff good luck with that

[JB]

You can not expect these governments to monitor every gate that gets put up in their boarders it's silly. Those gates can be put up anywhere at any time they have an endless supply. In a basement in a building in a cave on a roof in a tree, in lake.

So you have this notion of "oh the governments shouldn't allow them to have the gates" pffff good luck with that

Plus how nice is it to have these gates when a mutant's powers come online and go haywire. The gates make extraction a lot easier instead of local authorities figuring out how to handle the mutant and hoping they have a cell that can contain them. With the gates they can just call the X-Phone and poof, Krakoa comes and takes the mutant in the name of safety for all. The gates are saving lives, y'all.

[Devaishwarya]

In either case, I did read X-Men: Red and can see what you mean when you point out Jean's modus operandi in that series as compared to this run. I'm not going to offer a substantial motive or characterization right now, but I can see Jean deciding to join the Krakoan efforts in an attempt to work for "the greater good." Of course, there are still aspects of this operation that would conflict with her ideals and morals, but I can definitely see her making a justifiable decision to join these efforts without it completely conflicting with and contradicting who she is as a character. Then again, maybe Hickman simply decided to reinvent the wheel, and those aspects of the X-Men mythos and characters that seem to conflict and contradict his current interpretation of both are simply expected to be forgotten.

I can definitely agree with this...in the sense that it's a bit of both.

Jean's MO would have had to change because she's not the one making the definitive decisions going into Krakoa. She's not the leader here (at the start) as she was in XM:R. Totally different circumstances both she, and we as readers have to take into account. And it's that conflict of action and ideals/morals you mention, as seen in X-Force and X-Men with the QC, why she definitively decides to give up her seat and forge her own path.
Jean's intent hasn't changed from XM:R to Krakoa...at least not significantly that it's an entirely different mindset. It was just sidelined for a while and has now conformed to their/her new reality and perspective on where mutants are at this time. One's change in circumstances does impact on how one lives and views the world.

And...I don't think we are expected to forget what happened in XM:Red but at least move past it because their world now is a different place.

[jmc247]

She articulated that idea in X-Men: Red indeed, but she also said: "And every time mutants have come together to live in one place -- Genosha, Utopia -- we have simply made ourselves a bigger target. Whenever mutantkind tried to live alone, apart, we have been slaughtered".

So I still don't know who is that Jean Grey living in Krakoa, but her dream in X-Men: Red wasn't about portals and an island. It was about actually living amongst the gene-typical humans as equals ("I'd like to show you. A world where no one is left behind. Where no one is shunned. Where no one is less than. No humans and mutants. No us and them. Just "us"."), while being considered a nation made of its people so they could have a voice on global politics.

It's not the same at all.

No this is not fully Jean's dream of a nation state of mutants without an army or a central power. Its not fully Lorna's dream either of a nation state that ensures its hegemony over all nations by means of its armed forces like the old British Empire.

Krakoa is acting like China at least before Xi Jinping of trying to win over, out compete, or straight up buy global influence until they are the top dog of the system.

The idea has won over those on Jean's side for the time being as they are acting non-violently towards humans and its won over Lorna's side because the end result is going to be a Krakoa that effectively controls world politics ensuring in hard power terms that human led governments can not act against mutant interests even if they want to.

Politics is the art of compromise you can't always get the full list of goods one wants and if one doesn't compromise one often gets nothing. I will agree though there should be more political debate then we have seen between factions of mutants.

[pkingdom]

You can not expect these governments to monitor every gate that gets put up in their boarders it's silly. Those gates can be put up anywhere at any time they have an endless supply. In a basement in a building in a cave on a roof in a tree, in lake.

So you have this notion of "oh the governments shouldn't allow them to have the gates" pffff good luck with that

That's exactly the problem? The idea that another nation (one that most nations don't trust or even like) can just drop down portals anywhere, anytime, with no oversight whatsoever is a horrifying national security nightmare. Hell, in Excalibur, the British government recently decided they WON'T allow them to have the gates, torched them all and told them they had to use the normal travel methods going forward. In the real world those would be seen as serious assaults on the sovereignty of other nations.

[Hizashi]

The way I see it, with the majority of nations agreeing to official recognition of Krakoa they have agreed to the gates. That's enough explanation for me. Plus we saw how warm and welcoming the Avengers and FF were to the X-Men, and the crowd cheering for them. Makes me think they're not viewed as some hostile nation to the majority.

There's undeniable military applications and I can't accept the logic that a few drugs could bring so many nations to ignore that. As for your latter point, the X-Men are trying to make themselves a distinct entity from Krakoa, the humans were just saved by them, and as for the other heroes? I think they want to like the X-Men, and I understand that. Krakoa is changing/destabilizing so much, having a true X-Men team must be a welcome change for the superhero community - that makes sense to me.

As to the point about whether Krakoa is perceived as "hostile", I don't think it needs/should be looked at that way - humans who feel trepidation about Krakoa aren't motivated by "hostility" or necessarily think that Krakoa is hostile. Every nation seeks its betterment, I don't generally have a problem with that, I just think there are certain things not being addressed or used logically.

[Hizashi]

Realistically why on Earth would and government NOT want the gates, at least once they get past knee jerk reactions. I understand the issues raised, but think about it from the perspective of a government within the Marvel Universe, not the real world. Without getting into every specific example, the various superhero AND supervillain teams have had the capability of superfast and unfettered travel to anywhere on earth regardless of borders long before the Krakoan era (blackbirds, quinjets, Fantasti-Car, superspeed, super-speeded individual flight, etc...). Then, even without those, you also have the preponderance of teleporters and teleportation devices. The concepts of "borders" as a requirement for national defense is a bigger joke in the MU than superhero death is, even if its not as frequently spelled out.

On the flip side, by accepting the Krakoan gates you have an official port of entry and a probable diplomatic agreement that the Krakoan's would generally restrict their own travel to the gates (Why fly/fly a blackbird etc... when you can use a gate) That alone, without any other kind of consideration, would be reason enough for a country who is at least not openly hostile to allow the gates. This would be even more true if the host country has the ability to restrict gate locations. If nothing else the host country can at least monitor gate traffic on their side.

I'm not saying they would be happy about them, but even without Krakoan drugs an official (even if seriously a-typical) port of entry is infinitely preferable over not having one, especially when the Krakoans are not restricted to traditional modes of transportation.

Why would the capability of certain individuals/groups to ignore borders render them a joke in regards to national defense? I can accept that if the Fantastic Four respond to a disaster in another nation without waiting for passports and the like that they're basically forgiven after the fact - but if a supervillain team breaks into some foreign fortress, the nation might want to respond don't you think? And even superheroes aren't always welcomed with open arms by every nation.

The rest of your argument is pretty sound, but the narrative hasn't presented any nation as using the gates in the way you describe. Instead, the gates are presented as a strength for Krakoa with the only trades to the nations of the MU being drugs.

[Hizashi]

That argument only makes sense if the gates were actually treated like every other port of entry. As in, surrounded with security and with tons of checks on everyone and everything going in and out. And then there's the fact that the gates only work for mutants. An entire mutant army could just waltz in any nobody on the other side of the gate could do anything about it. The couple of nations we've seen that actually have their gates with weapons aimed at them are treated like the bad guys. And that's not even getting into that the X-men have just been planting them all over the place with no limitations on how, when and why. And again, the plants are known to be invasive and can spread and grow rapidly.

Everyone has their suspension of disbelief limits, and this entire setup requires a lot of leaps. But its more of an issue for me because the story wants to be taken as a more serious thing than the past 'mutant nations', on top of having an aspect of political thrillers. So when they do things that would be ludicrous for nation relations I just facepalm.

Yeah, exactly. Well-articulated, this is the sort of military application that is being ignored.

That's exactly the problem? The idea that another nation (one that most nations don't trust or even like) can just drop down portals anywhere, anytime, with no oversight whatsoever is a horrifying national security nightmare. Hell, in Excalibur, the British government recently decided they WON'T allow them to have the gates, torched them all and told them they had to use the normal travel methods going forward. In the real world those would be seen as serious assaults on the sovereignty of other nations.

Once again, you are right on the money. If Outburstz's attitude was applied, those gates should be taken as military attacks.