X-men #1 reviews (spoilers)

[Mercury]

NO!! Sorry, but you are the only one here who accuses people in this thread calling Duggan a racist!!! Everybody else speaks about a certain racial bias in representation that can be seen in his and many other comicbook authors' work. The Seneca Gardens topic asks a valid question:

Are the X-Men comics whitewashing topics about minorities? HOW I SEE IT: We cannot continue to tell fictional stories about minorities in superhero/sci-fi comics through dominantly white and cis-gendered bodies. Thus, the X-Men as a socio-political commentary have to take their own metaphor more seriously and must urgently evolve.

There is a difference and it is ok to have this debate. Please try not to silence this debate with accusation which are not there.

I think you feel a little uncomfortable speaking about race and you project something onto this debate that is not there.

Just to clarify, I have not accused nor am I accusing anyone of "calling Duggan a racist." I wrote that that is what I "perceived was being implied." I am also not uncomfortable speaking about race, especially if it is in regards to an instance where there is a clear exclusion of diversity and blatant racial inequality. If this team had no people of color, I would have a problem with that. If it only had one person of color, I would have a problem with that. As it is, it has two people of color and I do feel there is room for more people of color. However, although Duggan wanted a third person of color on the team - Tempo - she was not voted in and I am of the belief that he probably had no other choice in the matter after that, though I may be wrong.

When I initially responded, it was to complaints about this team specifically, not about the state of Marvel comics or the comic book industry as a whole.

[Outburstz]

The problem that is being had here is one that plagues most media that is popular fan favorite characters vs diversity.

This book no matter what people try to say is marketing its self to the X-men fan that isn't really into Krakoa era and just wants a traditional X-men team where they run around and save the world. Most of the A list mutants are white due to the history of the IP. So most of the classic characters that this type of fan fell in love with are white.

So they added 3 A listers Cyclops Jean and Rogue 2 B listers with tv and media exposure X-23 Lorna (that vote was made for her to win period) then the 2 lesser known diversity picks Sunfire and Synch but these 2 would also be known to this older fan who read them in older books.

it's clear that was the head space behind this roster. Now we can have a separate argument on the village name because personally I like it because I was informed by it when I wouldn't have known other wise. Same thing with the X factor bringing awareness to the serial killer of black queer men. I just feel like in canon you have to understand that the mutants (even the white ones) are the minority in Marvel. So the metaphor has to used with them as well just because of the history of the IP.

Would I like a book with people like Bishop, Tempo, Warpath, Silver Samurai , Magma, Sabra, etc sure but they are just not A listers

[Exodus]

So the metaphor has to used with them as well just because of the history of the IP.

I think that there have been authors like Ta-Nehisi Coates and Brian Michael Bendis who are using the mutant metaphor and nonetheless adapt the metaphor for current socio-political concerns and "real world" issues. I think you can use the idea of mutants being a minority wonderfully to speak also about the topic intersectionality. I think Bendis is one of the few authors who tried to do it and showed how Kitty is mutant and jewish, or how Iceman's queerness was always informed by him being a mutant also. Why should Synch not articulate that him being a mutant is also informed by being an Afro-American straight cis-gendered man? Why can we not speak about racism and transphobia on Krakoa and other intra-group marginalities? Are all mutants really equal? I think the topic of Seneca Gardens is a missed opportunity to have this debate within the universe.

I also think that the history of the IP is not as white and homogenous as you make it out to be. Claremont's New Mutant team or Lobdell's Generation X are only a few examples of extremely diverse teams in the 80s and 90s who sold comicbooks.

I also do not think it matters if these characters are A or B listers. Comicbooks are such a niche medium anyhow and the hardcore fanbase will read the flagship X-Men title no matter what. even if the team would have been: M, Storm, Eden Fesi, Cecilia Reyes, Bishop, Synch, and Cyclops.

But I'm also hoping for quality over quantity when it comes to the character presentatons and that Duggan will build up Synch as a gorgeous new X-Men lead character.

[Grinning Soul]

The problem that is being had here is one that plagues most media that is popular fan favorite characters vs diversity.

This book no matter what people try to say is marketing its self to the X-men fan that isn't really into Krakoa era and just wants a traditional X-men team where they run around and save the world. Most of the A list mutants are white due to the history of the IP. So most of the classic characters that this type of fan fell in love with are white.

So they added 3 A listers Cyclops Jean and Rogue 2 B listers with tv and media exposure X-23 Lorna (that vote was made for her to win period) then the 2 lesser known diversity picks Sunfire and Synch but these 2 would also be known to this older fan who read them in older books.

it's clear that was the head space behind this roster. Now we can have a separate argument on the village name because personally I like it because I was informed by it when I wouldn't have known other wise. Same thing with the X factor bringing awareness to the serial killer of black queer men. I just feel like in canon you have to understand that the mutants (even the white ones) are the minority in Marvel. So the metaphor has to used with them as well just because of the history of the IP.

Would I like a book with people like Bishop, Tempo, Warpath, Silver Samurai , Magma, Sabra, etc sure but they are just not A listers

I honestly think this is the smartest way to go about it: choose some minority characters and put them in *the* flagship title, with characters who are already beloved and popular, who will bring in the sales so the book isn't cancelled.

Then the book runs long enough for the writer to have the chance to develop those characters, let them shine and, hopefully, turn them into fan favourites, so they can be the ones who carry future books.

Is it ideal? No. Would I like it to be different? Yes. But it's a process: creating popular characters takes time and exposure. Most of the current popular characters didn't become popular in a day.

I'm more interested in how much love and attention Duggan will dedicate to Shiro and Everett than the number of minorities that are represented just for the sake of being able to say they're represented. If other than Scott and Jean, the whole team belonged to a diversity group, but the stories were all about Scott and Jean... what would be the point? Don't get me wrong: I love both characters, but I want all team members to shine. I want to love all of them.

[Master of Sound]

Let us not forget, us, the fans voted for Polaris on the team. Tempo, Armor and Sunspot were options, but did not make it.
So we could have gotten one more minority on this team, but we did not vote for it.

[JB]

But I'm also hoping for quality over quantity when it comes to the character presentatons and that Duggan will build up Synch as a gorgeous new X-Men lead character.

That's exactly where I am. And I hope we see Shiro get a lot of shine because it's never too late for such an older character.

I honestly think this is the smartest way to go about it: choose some minority characters and put them in *the* flagship title, with characters who are already beloved and popular, who will bring in the sales so the book isn't cancelled.

Then the book runs long enough for the writer to have the chance to develop those characters, let them shine and, hopefully, turn them into fan favourites, so they can be the ones who carry future books.

Is it ideal? No. Would I like it to be different? Yes. But it's a process: creating popular characters takes time and exposure. Most of the current popular characters didn't become popular in a day.

I'm more interested in how much love and attention Duggan will dedicate to Shiro and Everett than the number of minorities that are represented just for the sake of being able to say they're represented. If other than Scott and Jean, the whole team belonged to a diversity group, but the stories were all about Scott and Jean... what would be the point? Don't get me wrong: I love both characters, but I want all team members to shine. I want to love all of them.

Very true. Sunspot became a bigger name in the MU as a whole after his stint on the Avengers. Cheers to shining!
I just want to see fans happy. It's a joy seeing Synch fans so excited and I also love how Polaris fans are reacting too.
And as X-Men fans in general, we're winning big right now.

[Malachi]

I honestly think this is the smartest way to go about it: choose some minority characters and put them in *the* flagship title, with characters who are already beloved and popular, who will bring in the sales so the book isn't cancelled.

Then the book runs long enough for the writer to have the chance to develop those characters, let them shine and, hopefully, turn them into fan favourites, so they can be the ones who carry future books.

Is it ideal? No. Would I like it to be different? Yes. But it's a process: creating popular characters takes time and exposure. Most of the current popular characters didn't become popular in a day.

I'm more interested in how much love and attention Duggan will dedicate to Shiro and Everett than the number of minorities that are represented just for the sake of being able to say they're represented. If other than Scott and Jean, the whole team belonged to a diversity group, but the stories were all about Scott and Jean... what would be the point? Don't get me wrong: I love both characters, but I want all team members to shine. I want to love all of them.

Avengers and JLA used to be written like that back in the day. You have the famous names and then some lesser. The famous ones often had solos so the actual development where spent on the characters unique to the book. Everything from the current writers inclusions to characters associated to the title. Like Wanda, Hawkeye, Janet, Pietro, Vision to name some in Avengers.

[numberthirty]

The problem that is being had here is one that plagues most media that is popular fan favorite characters vs diversity.

This book no matter what people try to say is marketing its self to the X-men fan that isn't really into Krakoa era and just wants a traditional X-men team where they run around and save the world. Most of the A list mutants are white due to the history of the IP. So most of the classic characters that this type of fan fell in love with are white.

So they added 3 A listers Cyclops Jean and Rogue 2 B listers with tv and media exposure X-23 Lorna (that vote was made for her to win period) then the 2 lesser known diversity picks Sunfire and Synch but these 2 would also be known to this older fan who read them in older books.

it's clear that was the head space behind this roster. Now we can have a separate argument on the village name because personally I like it because I was informed by it when I wouldn't have known other wise. Same thing with the X factor bringing awareness to the serial killer of black queer men. I just feel like in canon you have to understand that the mutants (even the white ones) are the minority in Marvel. So the metaphor has to used with them as well just because of the history of the IP.

Would I like a book with people like Bishop, Tempo, Warpath, Silver Samurai , Magma, Sabra, etc sure but they are just not A listers

Easy...

Go back, and buy Ed Brubaker's run.

[Spit and Syntax]

Thought this was fun. Definitely gave me a very Whedon Astonishing feel to it.

Excited to have a bit of widescreen action, and from the way this and Planet-Size felt, Duggan is smart enough as a writer - both in his prose, narration and tone - to write something thoughtful, and I assume not braindead. It's a good book, but my milage with this era X-men will only extend for as long as writers like Hickman, Ewing and Spurrier stick around. They're really providing me with the draw to let me fit in a straight superhero adventure book like this into my pull list. Expecting the excellence of those writers to bleed into this title like an old serialised TV writers room and make everything the better for it.

[hairys]

NO!! Sorry, but you are the only one here who accuses people in this thread of calling Duggan a racist! Everybody else speaks about a certain racial bias in representation that can be seen in his and many other comicbook authors' work.

The Seneca Gardens topic asks an extremely valid question:
Are the X-Men comics whitewashing topics about minorities? HOW I SEE IT: We cannot continue to tell fictional stories about minorities in superhero/sci-fi comics through dominantly white and cis-gendered bodies!! Thus, the X-Men as a socio-political commentary have to take their own metaphor more seriously and must urgently evolve.

How is that even a question, haha. The answer is obviously YES, and it's been 40+ years it.

Why should Synch not articulate that him being a mutant is also informed by being an Afro-American straight cis-gendered man? Why can we not speak about racism and transphobia on Krakoa and other intra-group marginalities? Are all mutants really equal? I think the topic of Seneca Gardens is a missed opportunity to have this debate within the universe.

I think the vast majority of readers don't want that in their superhero comics. That's not to say the readers aren't interested in it at all; it's just that they would pursue those topics by reading a non-fiction book or a magazine or website dedicated to it. With comics, people are mostly looking to be entertained and for escapism. Even your most ardent left-wingers are satisfied with proper representation on the team, and once that is settled, having the team go out and battle supervillains. It's superhero comics.

I also think that the history of the IP is not as white and homogenous as you make it out to be. Claremont's New Mutant team or Lobdell's Generation X are only a few examples of extremely diverse teams in the 80s and 90s who sold comicbooks.

I don't think I would count the New Mutants because they were only very briefly not predominantly white. And that's without getting into the issue of how Sunspot is often drawn as just a white guy. And Shan and Dani are often drawn with European features. Generation X, I think, is a legitimate success story for a majority-minority team, but even it was canceled after 75 issues, unfortunately.

[Grinning Soul]

Very true. Sunspot became a bigger name in the MU as a whole after his stint on the Avengers. Cheers to shining!
I just want to see fans happy. It's a joy seeing Synch fans so excited and I also love how Polaris fans are reacting too.
And as X-Men fans in general, we're winning big right now.

Yes! I'm also so happy most people are enjoying their favourites! :)

It's early to tell, but I think we've got a good start. The art is gorgeous and I saw a genuine effort to share the spotlight and allow them all to look cool and have their place in the team.

Duggan introduced a lot of stuff in this issue (like their HQ and the villains). I hope in the next issues we get to see the team interacting more with each other on a personal level.

But so far so good! :)

Avengers and JLA used to be written like that back in the day. You have the famous names and then some lesser. The famous ones often had solos so the actual development where spent on the characters unique to the book. Everything from the current writers inclusions to characters associated to the title. Like Wanda, Hawkeye, Janet, Pietro, Vision to name some in Avengers.

That's it. I think it's unfair to judge a character and say they can't be successful because they're non-male or non-hetero or non-white when you don't give them a fair chance.

And a character has to be more than the representation of a minority to become an A-lister too. It takes development and panel time. It takes exposure to a broader audience than a side book. It takes writers and artists who care about them.

It's a process, it's not perfect and it's not as fast as we'd like to see. But Rome wasn't built in a day, right?

[Spit and Syntax]

I think the vast majority of readers don't want that in their superhero comics. That's not to say the readers aren't interested in it at all; it's just that they would pursue those topics by reading a non-fiction book or a magazine or website dedicated to it. With comics, people are mostly looking to be entertained and for escapism. Even your most ardent left-wingers are satisfied with proper representation on the team, and once that is settled, having the team go out and battle supervillains. It's superhero comics.

This is not specifically replying to you, but to the debate in general. I think you are pretty much right on this front, and as an "ardent left-winger" who finds their politics through reading, protesting, supporting local counter-culture etc. outside of my computer life, this is true that people are not coming to comic books for deep analysis on a Marxist superstructure or Fanon's Wretched of the Earth. The closest they will get is digging up some old Vertigo comics or maybe seeing whether Ales Kot is writing anything.

However, I think that Duggan's choice of Seneca Gardens does demonstrate what comics can do from a level of thoughtful education. As a non-American, I can say that learning about the politics of the area through a mainstream comic was one of my favourite parts of the issue. Further, the X-men as chief actors of making this space a community hub, a public sphere for all - i.e. this being an element that reflects on the team's character rather than a throwaway piece of exposition - was a clever touch in demonstrating the ethos of the run. Yes, if the HQ did not emphasise its giving back to the public sphere, we could use this as an example of naive white gentrification of an area, however I think Duggan put the necessary steps into describing the setting to make the space thoughtful inside and outside of the comic world.

Mainstream media should do things like this more, highlight ideas and ideals that should be discussed while also allowing it to reflect naturally in a story. This is the compromise of not wanting politics in escapism, while also understanding that all media itself is, by and large, political. When actions refer to character and intent, it becomes a discussion of character's ideals rather than simply author fulfilment. It allows us to have these kinds of debates and project into the imagined world, the best kind of world that we - or, if we disagree with them, solely the author - wants.

I must also state that I am white, so I in no way speak authoritatively in any way on the issue of utilising former predominantly black spaces to promote a specific message, but from my reading and enjoyment of this issue, this is my take on things.

[Mercury]

This is not specifically replying to you, but to the debate in general. I think you are pretty much right on this front, and as an "ardent left-winger" who finds their politics through reading, protesting, supporting local counter-culture etc. outside of my computer life, this is true that people are not coming to comic books for deep analysis on a Marxist superstructure or Fanon's Wretched of the Earth. The closest they will get is digging up some old Vertigo comics or maybe seeing whether Ales Kot is writing anything.

However, I think that Duggan's choice of Seneca Gardens does demonstrate what comics can do from a level of thoughtful education. As a non-American, I can say that learning about the politics of the area through a mainstream comic was one of my favourite parts of the issue. Further, the X-men as chief actors of making this space a community hub, a public sphere for all - i.e. this being an element that reflects on the team's character rather than a throwaway piece of exposition - was a clever touch in demonstrating the ethos of the run. Yes, if the HQ did not emphasise its giving back to the public sphere, we could use this as an example of naive white gentrification of an area, however I think Duggan put the necessary steps into describing the setting to make the space thoughtful inside and outside of the comic world.

Mainstream media should do things like this more, highlight ideas and ideals that should be discussed while also allowing it to reflect naturally in a story. This is the compromise of not wanting politics in escapism, while also understanding that all media itself is, by and large, political. When actions refer to character and intent, it becomes a discussion of character's ideals rather than simply author fulfilment. It allows us to have these kinds of debates and project into the imagined world, the best kind of world that we - or, if we disagree with them, solely the author - wants.

I must also state that I am white, so I in no way speak authoritatively in any way on the issue of utilising former predominantly black spaces to promote a specific message, but from my reading and enjoyment of this issue, this is my take on things.

All of this. Every. single. word.

[hairys]

All of this. Every. single. word.

A very good post indeed. Not surprising, since they agreed with me :-)

This is not specifically replying to you, but to the debate in general. I think you are pretty much right on this front, and as an "ardent left-winger" who finds their politics through reading, protesting, supporting local counter-culture etc. outside of my computer life, this is true that people are not coming to comic books for deep analysis on a Marxist superstructure or Fanon's Wretched of the Earth. The closest they will get is digging up some old Vertigo comics or maybe seeing whether Ales Kot is writing anything.

However, I think that Duggan's choice of Seneca Gardens does demonstrate what comics can do from a level of thoughtful education. As a non-American, I can say that learning about the politics of the area through a mainstream comic was one of my favourite parts of the issue. Further, the X-men as chief actors of making this space a community hub, a public sphere for all - i.e. this being an element that reflects on the team's character rather than a throwaway piece of exposition - was a clever touch in demonstrating the ethos of the run. Yes, if the HQ did not emphasise its giving back to the public sphere, we could use this as an example of naive white gentrification of an area, however I think Duggan put the necessary steps into describing the setting to make the space thoughtful inside and outside of the comic world.

Mainstream media should do things like this more, highlight ideas and ideals that should be discussed while also allowing it to reflect naturally in a story. This is the compromise of not wanting politics in escapism, while also understanding that all media itself is, by and large, political. When actions refer to character and intent, it becomes a discussion of character's ideals rather than simply author fulfilment. It allows us to have these kinds of debates and project into the imagined world, the best kind of world that we - or, if we disagree with them, solely the author - wants.

I must also state that I am white, so I in no way speak authoritatively in any way on the issue of utilising former predominantly black spaces to promote a specific message, but from my reading and enjoyment of this issue, this is my take on things.

Yes, I would agree that Duggan made it thoughtful and organic to the story.

Subtlety and natural/organic presentation go a long way.

[Mercury]

A very good post indeed. Not surprising, since they agreed with me :-)

Omg, I can't. LMFAO! You are terrible, but you exhibit it in a cute way, so you can get away with it.