The Ultimates (A Retrospective Review)

[FFJamie94]

So, a huge thanks to Capptain Buttocks for giving me the idea to do a retrospective series in this format. Check out his exiles retrospective thread (it's great).
Anyway, here's a series which holds no relevance to the current state of the Marvel.

Ultimates #1

The Ultimates, whether you like it or not, is considered a cultural milestone in Marvel History. Much like the rest of the early Ultimate Universe, it feels very much of its time. The comic itself is a response to two events. Publishing wise, it was a way to reintegrate the Marvel name after a disastrous period in the late 90’s. Pulling themselves out of bankruptcy, the Ultimate brand was used in order to gain new readers which modern updates to already existing products.
Narrative wise, the comic is a response to 9/11, which is probably one of the tragedies to happen in my lifetime, leading to a loss of thousands of lives and leading to war which lost thousands more.
In 2001, I was only 7 and being English, the rise in security and tensions in the World didn’t personally affect me as much as People from across the Ocean. But there was a massive cultural shift, one which Scottish writer Mark Millar saw and decided to write his own response.
His response was The Ultimates, a series which has a very polarising opinion online.

So the series starts with a fairly self-contained episode, one which revolves almost entirely around Captain America in World War 2. Bryan Hitch’s pencils are perfect here, creating a large battleground of bloody violence. Paul Mounts sets the tone perfectly, creating a dark atmosphere with his gritty colours. The whole image feels very cinematic, in fact, at times it feel more like a big screen venture than its live action counterpart, 2012’s The Avengers.
The comic feels big and the action feels real. Sadly, the weak link in the chain is Millar’s writing.
Mark Millar is known for his edgy storytelling, and here it sadly falls flat. I consider Ultimates his best work and while I often enjoy the comics he writes, there are some comics which I personally can’t stand (Wanted is a perfect example of this).
The pacing isn’t the problem, in many way, this prologue is paced very well. It builds up to the action, then the action occurs, then we are shown the aftermath of said action before cutting to a different scene entirely (I’ll be talking more about this epilogue in a second).
The problem comes down to the dialogue choices that Millar pens.
Millar would often try to give Captain America the kind of lines that action movie heroes would say in the 80’s. These one-liners were cheesy, but they worked because they gave the audience a reaction of “Ohhh, that was bad ass”.
Here, the one-liners fall flat.
“What are you ladies waiting for? Christmas?” feels very forced and over written. I’m not against the idea of Captain America calling his allies “Ladies”, Millar characterised Cap as man out of time, being pro military and often sexist. I’d argue this is one avenue that Millar was probably ahead of his time with, referring to guys as ladies was a playground insult well into the 2010’s, and even today, being called a lady is a sign of weakness.
No, my issue with this line is the addition of the answer, Christmas. It essentially breaks the flow of the dialogue. If Millar just said “What are you ladies waiting for?” and leave it at that, I feel the pacing of the dialogue would be more impactful. But, I at least remember that line.

Regardless of my feelings on the dialogue (and I have a lot more problems with Cap as the series goes on, but we’ll get that when we get to it), the issue ends with a nice epilogue where Tony Stark is in Mount Everest in the present year of 2002. This ending is a bright, stark contrast to the darkness of the rest of the issue, introducing a new character to the cast.
Hitch shines in the landscapes. The environment feels natural and large. His crisp, clear style works well with the comic in hand and it really has its largest impact here.

The comic feels like a high budget production, to the point where I refer to it “HBO Avengers”.
While it doesn’t do the best at introducing the characters, this first issue sets up the tone and themes of the comic going forward. Captain America isn’t given much depth here, instead Millar will write him as a three dimensional character as we go further along with the series.

The Ultimates may be dated, but it stands as a relic of a Marvel long gone. As we go further into the series, I’ll point out all the dated references. But for now, we stand at 0. It’s a good issue that’s sadly marked by some (at times) horrendous dialogue. But overall, it was a fun read.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

The Ultimates, whether you like it or not, is considered a cultural milestone in Marvel History.

It's an example of a cultural milestone that's not a very good cultural product, much like Mark Millar's CIVIL WAR, or Rob Liefeld's career.

Bryan Hitch's art, though was trailblazing and to me Hitch, and not Millar, should be considered the defining figure and reason for The Ultimates' success. All that's valuable in The Ultimates is from Hitch and all that is to its discredit is down to Millar. The most influential aspects of Ultimates all comes from Bryan Hitch and not Mark Millar.

Pulling themselves out of bankruptcy, the Ultimate brand was used in order to gain new readers which modern updates to already existing products.

The Ultimates, and Ultimate Marvel as a whole, had little to no impact in pulling Marvel out of bankruptcy. It was a successful comic and it got people enthused in the IP but it was simply not possible in 2000 for any comic to sell enough to pull the company out of bankruptcy.

What really turned things around for Marvel was the success of Raimi's Spider-Man 1. That was what made investors and speculators feel confident about the Marvel brand and stabilized the company and allowed it to think about consolidation and growth again.

Narrative wise, the comic is a response to 9/11,

Not exactly. The Ultimates was commissioned and conceived before 9/11 in late 2000 and early 2001. That said the September 11 attacks did lead Bryan Hitch to propose a drastic overhaul and change in tone in the titles which led Mark Millar to ditch his original concept.

Mark Millar is known for his edgy storytelling, and here it sadly falls flat. I consider Ultimates his best work

The Ultimates is Millar's worst work at Marvel easily. Far worse than Civil War and Old Man Logan.

His best work at Marvel (and best in superhero comics) is MARVEL KNIGHTS: SPIDER-MAN.

[SuperiorIronman]

The September 11th attacks did have direct influence on the later War Machine. Essentially being that the framing of the war in the middle east being our intro to the character and reboot following his earlier Ultimate Iron man portrayal. He might've had an appearance in between that and later Ultimates but it's definitely notable how different they are.

[Witchfan]

The Ultimates works as a parody of George W. Bush's presidency. Otherwise, I think it is dated.
Mark Millar will claim that no one cared about the Avengers at that time. Kurt Busiek had made the Avengers a best seller again, and is more a symbol of Marvel coming out of bankruptcy than Mark Millar's story.

[Hulkout42]

All i know is the the Wanda/Pietro relationship, their take on Hulk and Captain America and finally how Jan died pretty much ruined it for me.

[ed2962]

Started out good, ended poorly. Pretty influential at the time, but I'm not sure holds up as all time great storytelling.

[FFJamie94]

So to respond to some thoughts here before I get into Ultimates 2 next week.

I think the narrative served as a template for the first Avengers movie, with the alien invasion from Ultimates 1 and Loki being behind everything in Ultimates 2 coming together to make the first Avengers.

Millar has said that 9/11 changed the direction of the series. I believe the correct idea would have been this is Millar's response to Bush's response to 9/11.

I think the Ultimate brand as a whole did a lot for Marvel financially in the long term, but I'm looking at this more from the view point of Ultimate Spider-Man, which still holds a lot of fondness today.

The Ultimates is at least influential in how the Ultimate Universe is viewed and how People remember it. While USM is considered the better book, it sits differently with the rest of the Ultimate Universe.

I think Ultimates is Millar's best worst because I think it does have some good ideas that I think are executed well. I like Marvel Knights Spider-Man, but that feels rather detached from the rest of the Spider-Man mythos. His voice for Peter is far different than what anyone else has for him. At least with Ultimates, he has a World to play around with, and the only time some of these characters were shown beforehand were either small cameos in USM, or team-ups in the underrated Ultimate Marvel Team-Up. Civil War serves as a bit of a Spiritual Successor to his Ultimates run and I almost see it as an extension of that (Millar will later claim that he was already working on a Civil War idea for Ultimates 3, this would seemly kind of play out once he gets to Ultimate Avengers).

Without spoiling too much on my opinions for this run, I do agree that the first half of Ultimates (volume 1 at least) is stronger than the second half.

By the way, I do plan on getting these reviews out weekly. I'll probably take a break between Ultimates 1 and 2 however just due to the nature of the both stories.
Cheers for the feedback as well.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I believe the correct idea would have been this is Millar's response to Bush's response to 9/11.

Remember that Dubya Bush's popularity after 9/11 was sky-high and Millar is politically speaking all over the place.

It's always been my opinion that The Ultimates was an unironic Pro-Bush and Pro-American comic which Millar cynically wrote to make money to tap into the Post-9/11 hysteria. Millar filled it with backdoors and CYA to later market and legacy it as an Anti-Bush comic and that's how people are looking at it now but I think that in The Ultimates Vol.1 and other Ultimates story, the comic isn't critical of Bush at all in even the most tangible covert sense.

Cheers for the feedback as well.

No problem. This is a good forum you are hosting, looking at The Ultimates from both sides (neither too nostalgic or too critical). I think fundamentally The Ultimates like so much of Millar's superhero work, will remain polarizing.

[Username taken]

Started out good, ended poorly. Pretty influential at the time, but I'm not sure holds up as all time great storytelling.

This basically.

It had some good ideas and some terrible ideas (Hulk was especially bad). But I absolutely loved the wide screen story telling and the re-telling of the Avengers as some sort of "military force".

I also liked that his Captain America didn't really fit into the modern era. The guy's values and perspectives were completely out of touch with the era he woke up in but he still stayed true to what he believed.

Overall, I enjoyed Millar's run but it's not aged well. Millar is "edge lord" and it filters into his story telling. That's before Loeb came in and completely gutted the Ultimates and the universe as a whole.

[FFJamie94]

Remember that Dubya Bush's popularity after 9/11 was sky-high and Millar is politically speaking all over the place.

It's always been my opinion that The Ultimates was an unironic Pro-Bush and Pro-American comic which Millar cynically wrote to make money to tap into the Post-9/11 hysteria. Millar filled it with backdoors and CYA to later market and legacy it as an Anti-Bush comic and that's how people are looking at it now but I think that in The Ultimates Vol.1 and other Ultimates story, the comic isn't critical of Bush at all in even the most tangible covert sense.



No problem. This is a good forum you are hosting, looking at The Ultimates from both sides (neither too nostalgic or too critical). I think fundamentally The Ultimates like so much of Millar's superhero work, will remain polarizing.

Yeah, I'll get onto my thoughts on the weird standing that Ultimate Cap takes and how he is portrayed as a lot of my problems with the comic later on come down to how he is framed.

And cheers, I got interested in taking a deeper look at the Ultimates actually down to online discussion I've seen of the book. I don't have the same nostalgia for it like I do with other books in the Ultimate line (namely Spider-man and Galactus trilogy), and I first read it last year, after wanting to read it for a while. My overall opinions were that I enjoyed it, but it had some big issues. I then saw People saying it was their Watchmen and decided to have a deeper look at the comic.
I will be making some comparisons.to Watchmen, but mostly in the portrayal of Rorschach Vs Captain America.

And yeah, I feel that Millar is very polarising. I loved some of his Wolverine comics back in the day and even enjoy The Ultimates, but outside of Kick-ass, I've not enjoyed a single thing he has written for his own Universe. Nemesis was pointless and Wanted had the perfect set-up for the perfect plot, and it went with the stupidest plot idea. I'd have loved a comic where super heroes from different universes team up to take down these villains. But instead we got a large super villain conspiracy story.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I then saw People saying it was their Watchmen and decided to have a deeper look at the comic.

Well it's Watchmen if Watchmen had nothing to say about politics, society, history, storytelling, the comics medium, if Rorschach actually was a good fighter, if the heroes actually defeated the bad guys...then yeah Ultimates is like Watchmen once you remove everything that makes Watchmen what it is.

I guess for some young readers, The Ultimates was the first time you had superheroes address and refer to stuff in the real world like George W. Bush talking to Nick Fury, or later Captain America name-dropping Rumsfeld (RIP...lol!!!) in Ultimate War. So in that sense it was like something uncommon at the time.

The Ultimates is fundamentally a conventional superhero story with unconventional presentation and attitude. What really set it apart was Bryan Hitch's artwork (which admittedly is a commercialization of the stuff he did for The Authority) which made superhero costume and action look more realistic than before.

[FFJamie94]

Well it's Watchmen if Watchmen had nothing to say about politics, society, history, storytelling, the comics medium, if Rorschach actually was a good fighter, if the heroes actually defeated the bad guys...then yeah Ultimates is like Watchmen once you remove everything that makes Watchmen what it is.

I guess for some young readers, The Ultimates was the first time you had superheroes address and refer to stuff in the real world like George W. Bush talking to Nick Fury, or later Captain America name-dropping Rumsfeld (RIP...lol!!!) in Ultimate War. So in that sense it was like something uncommon at the time.

The Ultimates is fundamentally a conventional superhero story with unconventional presentation and attitude. What really set it apart was Bryan Hitch's artwork (which admittedly is a commercialization of the stuff he did for The Authority) which made superhero costume and action look more realistic than before.

Yeah, even then, we have better comics today which focus on the politics of the World.
Hickman's New Avengers blows Ultimates out of the water with how it deals with characters doing bad things.

And seeing as we're in 2021 now, most comics deal with the concepts of unlikable protagonists better.

Again, I'll get into my opinions on Ultimate Cap (although it is something which I think Hitch has to take some of the blame for and even reading other comics, other writers and artists are prone to this one particular criticism.

[chamber-music]

I don't think it was that groundbreaking. Ultimates was a continuation of what Hitch and Millar previously did with the Authority at Vertigo/DC comics except with Marvel and more of a focus on the war on terror. The Authority is usually credited as the comic that introduced wide screen blockbuster style to comics and both of Ultimates creative talent worked on that before this book.

Warren Ellis describing The Authourity when he was launching the book with Bryan Hitch

Property destruction on a massive scale. It's a superhero book gone widescreen, it's $200 million just on the special effects, it's a Jerry Bruckheimer production with script by Sylvester Stallone, Cecil B DeMille and Timothy Leary. It's as big and mad and beautiful as Bryan Hitch and I can make it. If teenagers need superhero comics, then this is what they should be like — pure bloody adrenaline, strange days, and big things blowing up. And why not?"

Mark Millar and artist Frank Quitely followed up Ellis and Hitch run and added political commentary (including some George W.Bush criticism which lend to them altering panels at the publishers request)

Also according to Millar Ultimates was intended to be highly satirical but it seemed like that went over a lot of readers heads. Captain America's 'Stands for France' was mocking the whole jingoistic freedom fries thing at the time.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Also according to Millar Ultimates was intended to be highly satirical but it seemed like that went over a lot of readers heads.

It didn't go over readers' heads, because the satire wasn't there. Now of course this is subjective, so let me clarify.

In the case of Watchmen, Rorschach is definitely intended to satirize vigilante self-righteousness and some of it did go over people's heads, but the comics repeatedly show Rorschach as ineffective and incompetent, someone who constantly projects on to others stuff that he himself is guilty of, and is constantly wrong and in over his head throughout the book. So the satire is there in the comic.

In the case of The Ultimates, the Ultimates constantly win, Nick Fury and his trampling of the US constitution in the name of National Security and all the evil things he does in the name of the greater good is constantly shown as correct or necessary since the Ultimate Marvel world keeps facing evil threats and bad guys multiple times. So The Ultimates are framed as jerks who are unpopular but at the same time they are also necessary and justified for being jerks...that's not satire. That's basically glorifying jerk behavior.

There are elements of black comedy in The Ultimates, like the arc after the opening, has Banner's Cannibal hulk going on a rampage killing 200 people all so he can attack Freddie Prinze Jr.** because he's dating Betty Banner or whatever. SHIELD cover this up, and the Ultimates get praised for stopping the Hulk which essentially makes the Ultimates out to be corrupt a--holes and government stooges, but then in the Chitauri attack, the use Hulk as a weapon, Captain America triggers Proto-incel Bruce Banner by saying the Chitauri flirted with Betty or something...so that again proves how worthless The Ultimates is.

** Another thing that dates The Ultimates was its constant name-dropping of celebrities or names of its time, often in fairly obnoxious ways, what is more crudely described elsewhere as starf--kery. And apparently Millar thought Freddie Prinze Jr. was a joke or something but then recently it turns out Prinze is quite the mensch and cool guy, and suddenly Millar looks like a fool all over again with his jumped-the-gun bad take .

Captain America's 'Stands for France' was mocking the whole jingoistic freedom fries thing at the time.

Captain America attacking a Chitauri bad guy and then a full page splash close-up with that line, which is comics' code for gonna take names, and then beating down the bad guy isn't satirical. If Captain America said that and he lost the fight right after, or if this set-up to a big showdown is met by a big splash image showing the Chitauri hilariously beating down on Ultimate Cap, you know a humiliating comics panel that would become Internet roast material...if we got that, that would be evidence of satire.

[FFJamie94]

Ultimates #2

Unlike the first issue, this one feels like it fits into the greater narrative of the series. Instead of it being a singular tale following one Character, this one sets to introduce the major characters in the run.
Bruce Banner is reintroduced to the Ultimate Universe, with this issue serving as a quasi-sequel to his appearance in Ultimate Marvel Team-Up #2 and 3. The book is set in the aftermath of Hulk’s destruction in that book, and while it doesn’t give that series a lot of relevance (you could replace it with any number of times Hulk has gone on a rampage), it is a nice nod to the greater Universe at hand, connecting it with the material that Brian Michael Bendis was doing.
In many respects, Ultimates serves as a kind of spiritual successor to Ultimate Marvel Team-Up, with Characters who were introduced there making their return here.

One of the major players to get his reintroduction is Tony Stark aka Iron Man. Except this incarnation of Iron Man feels like a complete reboot over his UMTU counterpart. Tony is very much like his 616 counterpart, a playboy who drinks a lot. However, Millar seems to exaggerate these characteristics to the point where they aren’t subtle traits. I like who they handled Iron Man in this issue. His alcoholism sets up ideas that sadly, never get paid off. But that’s a topic for another time.
The design of his armour is very distinct, but is a good enough modern update of the classic red and gold design.

Giant Man and the Wasp are also introduced in this issue. The story here deals with Hank Pym becoming Giant Man for the first time while Janet is his supporting wife. Their relationship is one of the focal points for the entirety of this volume, so I won’t talk much about it until we get to *that issue*.
Needless to say, I do like Pym’s creative use of communicating with ants in order to get them to help out around the office.

The last Character to be introduced is Nick Fury. Fury is probably my favourite character in this series and is a delight whenever he is on the page. It’s probably because even here, he is just Samuel L Jackson being Fury, but it’s a character change I think that works. Instead of being the hardened white tough guy who smokes like a chimney as he is in the 616 Universe, this is the sort of Fury who probably has a great record collection. He is certainly the one character who translates the best between Ultimates and Ultimate Spider-Man.

The plot of the issue largely revolves around Banner trying to perfect the Super Soldier serum and the idea of a group of Super humans who are funded by the Government.
There is more talking about Banner perfecting the serum than there is he actually working on doing it. But his research is cut short when they find the original Captain America.
Hints at future events are sprinkled carefully throughout the book. There is some decent foreshadowing on Banner turning into the Hulk again, Thor is mentioned and there is talk of Captain America finding Alien Technology in World War 2 which helped launch NASA. I think these are subtle enough that the reader can pick up on them on a second read through, but not noticeable enough that they give anything away.

Hitch’s Pencils are strong here. Unlike the first issue, he is playing around with a lot more environments. The devastation the Hulk left behind feels as apocalyptic as it should, while the Science labs feel nice and clean. The overall look of this issue makes the comic more enjoyable to read. I mentioned before I like how Iron Man is designed in this series, and a lot of the helps with how Hitch was able to craft a nice looking armour and giving it a cinematic and realistic flare.

Now it’s time for the first ever “Dated Reference” game where I highlight all the dated references I can find throughout the book. I may miss a few, but that just means Millar gets better at hiding them. Anyway, this issue features two, one where Tony Stark mentions a Cameron Diaz and the other where Janet briefly mentions the Star Wars Special Editions. This brings us to a total of 2 in 2 issues.

Overall, this was a much better issue than the first, it does a good job of setting up the characters and it didn’t have any glaring scripting issues. The problems with the issue are when you look at the bigger picture of the series. But for now, as a singular issue, I think it’s a good push in the right direction.

Next time, we bring Captain America into the 21st Century as he meets (now former) President George Bush.