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  1. #526
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Well, there's probably one variant of Killmonger that's a good guy...
    Which would have been a better episode.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vic Vega View Post
    I'm not sure why fans are surprised by the bleakness of some of these stories.

    It would kind of cheapen the core MCU heroes acts if everything was, "Well if they hadn't saved the day, someone else would have, no biggie."

    It's not shocking to me that the MCU is a actively worse place without Iron Man in it. Even if you hate the character that is kind of a given. Or should be.
    Sure, but does EVERY episode have to be grim and depressing?
    Last edited by Kirby101; 09-15-2021 at 05:24 PM.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  2. #527
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Which would have been a better episode.
    Would it have been genuine to the character though?

    Like I think it makes sense why they went the direction they did.

  3. #528
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    That's why I had some issue with the Captain Carter episode where it seems like everything was hunky-dory if Peggy became a Super Soldier instead of Steve.

    I mean, she still needed Steve, but was there nothing significant to him becoming Captain America instead? Though we just might not have seen the wider implications of the divergence in that universe yet.
    When we meet Agent Carter in the first Cap film we quickly learn that she is already good at all the stuff that Steve will later become good at.

    The sole exception being leading troops into combat, and that is mainly because of both her sex and her training as an Agent. Ironically, Comic Book Peggy might not have had that particular problem as she fought with the French Resistance.

    Maybe saving Bucky when she did in WW 2 prevents a redeemed Winter Soldier in the future from doing something great.

  4. #529
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic Vega View Post
    When we meet Agent Carter in the first Cap film we quickly learn that she is already good at all the stuff that Steve will later become good at.

    The sole exception being leading troops into combat, and that is mainly because of both her sex and her training as an Agent. Ironically, Comic Book Peggy might not have had that particular problem as she fought with the French Resistance.

    Maybe saving Bucky when she did in WW 2 prevents a redeemed Winter Soldier in the future from doing something great.
    I guess it's possible she's not the leader or motivator that Steve was because that was never what she trained to do.

    She probably would have been pro-Accords unlike Steve.

  5. #530
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Would it have been genuine to the character though?

    Like I think it makes sense why they went the direction they did.
    Yes, him seeing the truth about his father and Wakanda and changing what he thinks would have been better.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  6. #531
    Put a smile on that face Immortal Weapon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Yes, him seeing the truth about his father and Wakanda and changing what he thinks would have been better.
    His father wanted to do the same thing he did. Only he never had the chance to get through with it because T'Chaka stopped him.

  7. #532
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    His father wanted to do the same thing he did. Only he never had the chance to get through with it because T'Chaka stopped him.
    Yeah, have Wakanda wage war on the world.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  8. #533
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    It's a bit hard to sympathize with Killmonger considering how willing he is to kill people. And forcing Wakanda to fight against the world would hurt Wakanda

  9. #534
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    maybe , the what if finale wlll lead to dr strange 2 multiverse of madness with the what if multiversal team making a transition into live action cameo in that movie.

  10. #535
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    Well this episode was true to the basic brokenness of Killmonger's character. If there is any knock on the episode from me, its that the story didn't have anything new to say about any of the characters, they were all pretty much doing what you would expect. So even though this one was entertaining, its tied with the first one as my least favorite.

    Imho, the episode should have had Killmonger go against type and overcome his tragedy to become a force for good. That kind of approach might have had something deep and interesting to say. But instead the message is that our tragedies define us forever. Not cool.
    Last edited by Scott Taylor; 09-15-2021 at 11:08 PM.
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  11. #536

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    I knew Killmonger would kill Tony and cause a war ahead of this episode release, but man did I not expect him to unravel the plans of Obidiah Stane.
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  12. #537
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    The best ep yet I guess. But I'm glad they're doing all this dark type stuff as what if's and not the actual mcu.

  13. #538

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    I thought it was pretty good.

  14. #539
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    It's a bit hard to sympathize with Killmonger considering how willing he is to kill people. And forcing Wakanda to fight against the world would hurt Wakanda
    I think you can sympathize with what he went through growing up, less so how he channels that experience.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    Well this episode was true to the basic brokenness of Killmonger's character. If there is any knock on the episode from me, its that the story didn't have anything new to say about any of the characters, they were all pretty much doing what you would expect. So even though this one was entertaining, its tied with the first one as my least favorite.

    Imho, the episode should have had Killmonger go against type and overcome his tragedy to become a force for good. That kind of approach might have had something deep and interesting to say. But instead the message is that our tragedies define us forever. Not cool.
    I think we'd need a much earlier variance point for Killmonger to really change.

    I did notice that one scene where after Killmonger talks about his dad's death Tony talks about how he wishes there weren't any weapons in the world. Which seems ironic coming from him at the time but maybe indicative that on some level Tony wishes he didn't have to deal weapons.

  15. #540
    Put a smile on that face Immortal Weapon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think you can sympathize with what he went through growing up, less so how he channels that experience.

    I think we'd need a much earlier variance point for Killmonger to really change.

    I did notice that one scene where after Killmonger talks about his dad's death Tony talks about how he wishes there weren't any weapons in the world. Which seems ironic coming from him at the time but maybe indicative that on some level Tony wishes he didn't have to deal weapons.
    T'chaka not killing his dad would be his variance point. I doubt if T'chaka took him to Wakanda that would change anything. The only thing that will change is having the plan be a inside job

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