Marvel Studios' WHAT IF...? (2021)

[Dunkelzahn]

That's a 100 Million Dollar question.

Different cultures in different parts of the world have their own ideas about what is and isn't okay for kids to see. It's largely decided by what parents are comfortable with. Here in the U.S. since at least the '70s, parents don't like kids to see blood. They also don't like to see characters engage in "repeatable behavior" that they don't want their kids to do (like drinking alcohol or smoking). And they don't like to see heroes fight villains directly (memories of the Super Friends never throwing a punch and the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles fighting Shredder by hitting one thing to make another thing trip him or something). But it's different from country to country. Parents back in the '90s were shocked at how violent Power Rangers was, because they actually fought their enemies directly. But the footage was from Japan, where it's deemed okay for heroes to destroy the villains provided the villains aren't human. It changes throughout time too. Someone once tried to tell me the Golden Age Batman stories were really adult because "Batman carried a gun". But it used to be S.O.P. for youth adventure heroes to carry guns. You know how many westerns kids used to watch? Or how many pulp detective stories they'd read?

In regards to What If?, it's probably just easier for them to keep their hands clean by not showing any blood. From my perspective, I just think it's weird that someone would find its lack to be a problem. I don't watch gory stuff, so I can't imagine going "That's weird. Where's the blood?"

Imagine the uproar if any kind of nudity is even implied. That is ironically getting a worse reaction than violence. There is only one thing that would get a worse reaction...

[Vic Vega]

I wonder how her relationship with Tony would be. Would it be as antagonistic as his relationship with Steve?

Part of Steve and Tony antagonism was down to Alpha Male head butting. I don't see Tony Stark reacting to Peggy the same way. Besides, having been practically raised by the real Jarvis a Brit thru and thru, I imagine Tony would somewhat enjoy Peggy's sarcastic asides.

Tony would be less inclined to treated her as a rival and more a family member.

"Language, Mr. Stark!"

"Sorry, Aunt Peggy."

[DrNewGod]

When Skull was talking earlier in the episode about summoning a 'champion' I was kind of hoping we'd get an early appearance by Thor, whom he'd (wrongly) assume would be some Aryan demigod who'd totally embrace his supremacist nonsense.

Red Skull - "Behold, our champion! The lightning war begins with the god of thunder!"

Thor - "Yeah, you guys are nuts. I just answered your summons because I saw some fools that needed some serious smiting..."

Agreed. When the tentacles came out there was a record-needle-scratching noise in my head. Honestly, I thought that he might be unleashing one of the Jotun's ice-dog thingies.

[babyblob]

When Skull was talking earlier in the episode about summoning a 'champion' I was kind of hoping we'd get an early appearance by Thor, whom he'd (wrongly) assume would be some Aryan demigod who'd totally embrace his supremacist nonsense.

Red Skull - "Behold, our champion! The lightning war begins with the god of thunder!"

Thor - "Yeah, you guys are nuts. I just answered your summons because I saw some fools that needed some serious smiting..."

I am glad they didnt do this. it would make Carter the backround character in her own story if Thor comes in and just beats the main bad guy in the end. it would be like what was the point of Cater to begin with.

[Castle]

Part of Steve and Tony antagonism was down to Alpha Male head butting. I don't see Tony Stark reacting to Peggy the same way. Besides, having been practically raised by the real Jarvis a Brit thru and thru, I imagine Tony would somewhat enjoy Peggy's sarcastic asides.

Tony would be less inclined to treated her as a rival and more a family member.

"Language, Mr. Stark!"

"Sorry, Aunt Peggy."

I don't think it was just about alpha males because the series did still make it clear, Steve was the leader of the team. the issue between Steve and Tony in the films had more to do with ideals. Steve is more conservative, while Tony is more liberal. infact it's a shame that unlike a film like X-MEN First Class where the movie does put the political ideals of the two supposedly alpha male of Magneto and Xavier at front and centre of the film that you get the primary themes and strong beliefs of the characters, A film like Captain America: Civil War fails to get as deep in tackling their ideals instead it downgrades to them punching each other for the most part and Bucky Issues.

However while the MCU movies never cared to focus on a strong drama story narrative that would have deeply reflected the characters ideologies beyond all the action, they are still there beneath the surface. Tony and Steve clashed a lot because of their philosophies. Tony is modern in thought, Steve is quite traditional. Tony can be reckless, Steve more thoughtful.

As for the Tony and Peggy dynamic, Peggy is female so I feel this is a mixed bag pov. Tony started the series treating Pepper Potts like crap and sleeping with different women, however he trusted Pepper to handle the business and even military side of his company. I think Tony...at least in phase 1 had a wide range attitude towards women, so while him and Peggy may clash, her been female would open a more vague narrative of their dynamic even if Peggy and Steve mostly have the same ideals.

[CosmiComic]

Part of Steve and Tony antagonism was down to Alpha Male head butting. I don't see Tony Stark reacting to Peggy the same way. Besides, having been practically raised by the real Jarvis a Brit thru and thru, I imagine Tony would somewhat enjoy Peggy's sarcastic asides.

Tony would be less inclined to treated her as a rival and more a family member.

"Language, Mr. Stark!"

"Sorry, Aunt Peggy."

Alpha male is a myth, isn't it?

[Tofali]

I always thought the conflict between Tony and Steve was ideology.

[Frontier]

To be honest I feel like Tony would end up pretty different in a world where Iron Man predates him and might become a commodity, assuming Howard found a way to keep making more suits.

[Sutekh]

To be honest I feel like Tony would end up pretty different in a world where Iron Man predates him and might become a commodity, assuming Howard found a way to keep making more suits.

Given how aggressively Tony shunned anything his dad seemed into, growing up around a dad tinkering around on a bunch of suits of armor would probably have skewed Tony off into a completely different discipline, like biology or the occult or something. He'd be more likely to end up this timeline's Hulk or Dr. Strange...

[CosmiComic]

I always thought the conflict between Tony and Steve was ideology.

I think that only happened later on. Before that, I think it was just their personalities and semi-connected history exacerbated by the Mind Stone

Given how aggressively Tony shunned anything his dad seemed into, growing up around a dad tinkering around on a bunch of suits of armor would probably have skewed Tony off into a completely different discipline, like biology or the occult or something. He'd be more likely to end up this timeline's Hulk or Dr. Strange...

He'd join Hank and become another Ant-Man/Giant-Man. idk who'd become Iron Man

[Derek Metaltron]

Given how aggressively Tony shunned anything his dad seemed into, growing up around a dad tinkering around on a bunch of suits of armor would probably have skewed Tony off into a completely different discipline, like biology or the occult or something. He'd be more likely to end up this timeline's Hulk or Dr. Strange...

You would think that with America at the forefront of such technology that would run the risk of their Cold War being very different or even more aggressive. One can imagine the Korean and Vietnam Wars with giant mechs on both sides. Unless of course Howard adopted Tony’s non violent campaign after the war or Steve convinced him to do so. Again it’s the little things in such alternate timelines that we need Harry Turtledoves to write this out for. Or lots of fanfics.

He'd join Hank and become another Ant-Man/Giant-Man. idk who'd become Iron Man

Steve could have easily been called to operate as Iron Man over the years, gradually streamlined into a more mobile suit. Maybe even working alongside Isaiah Bradley?

[Sutekh]

You would think that with America at the forefront of such technology that would run the risk of their Cold War being very different or even more aggressive. One can imagine the Korean and Vietnam Wars with giant mechs on both sides. Unless of course Howard adopted Tony’s non violent campaign after the war or Steve convinced him to do so. Again it’s the little things in such alternate timelines that we need Harry Turtledoves to write this out for. Or lots of fanfics.

Oh yeah, with a WW2 US battlesuit making waves, you can be sure that this would be a timeline that would lend itself to a rush of other attempts, such as a Crimson Dynamo or a Titanium Man from Soviet attempts to keep up with the Starkses!

Steve could have easily been called to operate as Iron Man over the years, gradually streamlined into a more mobile suit. Maybe even working alongside Isaiah Bradley?

Definitely Steve would remain 'Iron Man' to Peggy's 'Captain America.'

Maybe Natasha loses an arm and becomes the Winter Widow? Hawkeye is recruited by Hank Pym to become a shrinking archer codenamed Stinger? Banner is bitten by a gamma-irradiated test subject spider and becomes the Savage Man-Spider? Mix it all up! Put the chocolate right into the peanut butter!

[Captain Craig]

I finally got around to watching this yesterday afternoon during the kids nap time.

It played, intentionally so, like a riff on the MCUs First Avenger movie. Just from this page I can see lots of discussion has occurred. Some of what stoked me as well was Howard creating an Iron Man suit that Steve uses. Once Captain Carter goes into the future my real question is "How did the past unfurl to the present"? Lots to be done there with what we know and what we can assume still happened based on Falcon & Winter Soldier TV show.

[Castle]

I always thought the conflict between Tony and Steve was ideology.

because it is as I have explained in full depth

this is one of the best threads I have been on in a while. many here who don't usually agree with me, seems to be not doing so, even Jack the Tipper who never agrees with anything I say also talks about how their mouths movement was not right, something I pointed out in my first review of the show.

Given how aggressively Tony shunned anything his dad seemed into, growing up around a dad tinkering around on a bunch of suits of armor would probably have skewed Tony off into a completely different discipline, like biology or the occult or something. He'd be more likely to end up this timeline's Hulk or Dr. Strange...

I don't think Tony ever fully shunned his dad. At least not from watching Iron Man 2. Howard made it clear that he laid all the foundation for Tony, something Tony did seem to appreciate. His dad just did not seem to show affections for him. which is not that surprising, from rich families, the parents never show their kids any kind of basic affection. Again , unless I am misquoting that film because it has been years since I saw it, including many marvel films that was Howard related.

But I do think this scene was the best scene in what was quite a disappointing movie, but it is the reason I remember this scene very well.



I don't think there would have been any Iron Man without Howard. Honestly Howard should have gotten his own spin of show.

[thwhtGuardian]

Wait, lack up blood shed was a criticism?

That never even registered with me.