Marvel Studios' WHAT IF...? (2021)

[Kirby101]

Watched episode 2 and really all I can is we miss you Chadwick.

The episode was fun. Fulfilled the concept of What If...

I don't know that much more commentary is needed. The show is well done and if you like Cinematic Marvel then this series is for you.
However, since it is unlikely to see much followup on any of the concepts just sit back and enjoy them as the one-offs they are intended to be.

I would expect follow ups to happen in the next seasons. if their are any.

[Cyke]

I meant to comment a couple days ago, but I feel like this episode was a big improvement on the first episode, and in large part being not a rehash of either BP or GoTG. For how heavily it dealt with family, it was surprisingly lighthearted and carried Gunn's vision pretty well, while simultaneously honoring both the power and respect commanded by Wakanda.

- I love the idea that Chadwick Boseman and Michael Rooker worked together on this, especially extensively. Even if it's in cartoon form, I love them both so much

- Buuuut voice acting is not one of Rooker's strong suits. He's a better live-actor than a voice actor, but still, props for trying

- Thanos' voice could have used more modulation like in the movies

- This isn't his fault, but Thanos suffered from the age-old cliche where, if a powerful villain is on the side of angels, they will be depowered by a whopping 75%, minimum

- Though, turning Thanos' lust for genocide into a running joke was a nice twist and still feels very James Gunn in and of itself

- Love the implication of the Wakandan space program, just like in the comics

- Another strike against Marvel killing off its villains so casually: every time Korath has appeared on-screen after his death, he's only gotten better and better. He was improved greatly in Captain Marvel and much moreso in this episode

- Plus, Djimon Hounsou voiced Black Panther 11 years ago on BET!

- Big shout out to the voice cast in general, and I'm always happy to see/hear Sean Gunn's Kraglin. However, I know I shouldn't be surprised given the MCU's track record, but I'm still thankful for the return of Brolin, del Toro, and Russell, three very big Hollywood heavy hitters. (though looking up voice casts while watching the show is a potential spoiler!)

- I don't know how the recording sessions were like and considering the sheer talent, I'm betting that most of the actors recorded their parts separately. Still, I would much rather prefer to imagine that Chadwick Boseman was in the same studio and working side-by-side with Brolin, del Toro, Russell, Rooker, Gunn, Hounsou, etc. all the same, basically all the big names that weren't part of the cast of Black Panther. That just warms my heart.

- T'Challa's ship is named after Nelson Mandela <3

- I wonder how the Collector got Mjolnir, but I'd love to see THAT story, too

- the twist at the end felt very much like a g-rated Tales from the Crypt (rather than the Twilight Zone) thanks to the tonal shift of impending doom. "Hah, this WAS a fun and wholesome story. Now everyone is dead. DEAAAAAD." [/Abe Simpson] This is what I mean about what was lacking from the previous episode -- something absolutely bonkers resulting from just one relatively small difference. This episode, I feel, took very good advantage of that.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

This could be a cool What if episode .

[tabo61]

Thanos was a awesome surprise.

[Gorthon616]

I absolutely hated episode 2. (and if it matters, I quite enjoyed Black Panther, and Chadwick Boseman in all his other MCU stuff).

1) He is a Mary Sue. The Maryiest of Mary Sue. It made me hurt. Specifically, the Mary Sue conceptually is an insert-self into the main character position with "I'm actually writing this story" powers. Which is EXACTLY T'Challa in this episode.

2) It was boring. At least to me, but I generally don't enjoy heist movies.

3) To me it feels completely missed the point of Guardians of the Galaxy. Guardian's was about underdogs, this was about how cooler would it be if you got to hangout with rich people, instead of the ordinary people you used to hang with.

4) T'Challa is a spoiled prince. He ran off from home without telling his parents, basically for no real reason. It is hard for me to believe that he actually cares about his family. If anyone ran away from home for like a decade just for fun without telling their family or friends, I would have a hard to thinking of them not being a narcissitic prick (barring some sort of domestic issue they were running from of course)

5) The humor/style is completely off. This is so... well Disney in comparison to Gunn's work. While I am not always a fan of some of the lengths he goes at, his stuff has creativity and his own sense of style. This just felt like exaggerated cartoon characters.

6) Seems like a really harsh take on Quill, having T'Challa steal the name that his mother gave him and have his surrogate father basically come across as loving his new son. To me kind of crass to take the name like that, and the story undercuts to me the idea of the bond between Yondu and Quill. Which I thought was really well done, whereas this is... well, not.

7) The Thanos plot twist was dumb, and really felt like your typically job-the-greatest-threat-in-the-universe-to-show-how-badass-someone-is, which I always thought of as bad writing and really undermining the overall universe.


I much preferred episode 1, which was very safe, but seemed to understand the material and characters much better. This read like someone with a crush on Boseman and had sworn revenge on Pratt, and had only read a brief synopsis of the MCU to date.

[Metro]

It's kind of funny how wrong most of this is.
I don't why people seem to take it so personally that the possibility someone could do better in Quill's place exists.

[Gorthon616]

It's kind of funny how wrong most of this is.
I don't why people seem to take it so personally that the possibility someone could do better in Quill's place exists.

How am I taking it personally? Aside from how I personally felt about it (which would be a bizarre criticism)

Funny how people can't take a criticism of something that they like.

[Metro]

How am I taking it personally? Aside from how I personally felt about it (which would be a bizarre criticism)

Funny how people can't take a criticism of something that they like.

I can take criticism just most of what you're saying is wrong.
For one this didn't miss the point of the Guardians, the whole What If is for things to be different if they were just gonna redo the Guardians but with T'Challa there'd be no point to this at all, then your claim that someone had to hate Peter Quill is just far off, T'Challa is a Prince of a technologically advanced civilization and in addition to that he wasn't abducted by aliens of course he's gonna do better than Quill, it would be stranger if he didnt, the you talk about Yondu loving T'Challa as if Quill has a monopoly on his affection and then you just say T'Challa just ran off ignoring the fact he did try to go home but Yondu lied about Wakanda being destroyed

[CosmiComic]

Idk if this has been already stated, but season 2 will also deal with Phase 4

[Gorthon616]

I can take criticism just most of what you're saying is wrong.
For one this didn't miss the point of the Guardians, the whole What If is for things to be different if they were just gonna redo the Guardians but with T'Challa there'd be no point to this at all, then your claim that someone had to hate Peter Quill is just far off, T'Challa is a Prince of a technologically advanced civilization and in addition to that he wasn't abducted by aliens of course he's gonna do better than Quill, it would be stranger if he didnt, the you talk about Yondu loving T'Challa as if Quill has a monopoly on his affection and then you just say T'Challa just ran off ignoring the fact he did try to go home but Yondu lied about Wakanda being destroyed

1) Never asked for them to "redo" the Guardians, just stick to the themes and characterization. They did not, which you appear to agree with? Obviously, story elements change, but you are essentially changing the heart of the story if you remove the themes of the Guardians.

I mean, what themes did T'Challa bring? Nothing as far as I can tell. While Boseman was good in Black Panther, he was mostly a reactive character in it. One of the main criticisms of the film. Heck, he was reactive in Civil War as well.

They could have easily written the story to have him have some hardship that he overcomes, but instead the first "challenge" he encounters is a over enthusiastic fanboy. If that isn't proof he is a Mary Sue, I don't know what is.


2) Uhh, I mean many people have read this to be just dumping on Quill. https://www.themarysue.com/episode-2...tts-star-lord/

For the record, I don't read themarysue, and in fact have not even read the cited article, I got that opinion on my own. Just stumbled across this when I was seeing if other people felt the same as I did.


3) Yeah, and he's like 6 years old or something, and as far as has been shown in the MCU standard space technology is more advanced that Wakanda. Let's also not forget that Wakanda is also backwards in many regards, like the tribal systems and the monarchy. (No offense to the Monarchists I suppose)

And also so what? If you're in America (or whatever other country you want to say is the most technologically advanced), if a space aliens pick you up, I'm pretty sure that you'll find yourself quickly out of your depths, not giving space TED talks.

The point isn't that T'Challa or whoever couldn't done better than Quill. The point is that T'Challa is poorly written as a Mary Sue and is boring.


5) To me this just felt like a pretty low blow narratively speaking. Usually with this sort of multiverse level stories the important bonds are shown to crossover even in alternate realities. (See Spider-Man and Mary Jane and plenty of other examples).

That Quill was just some guy that got along with Yondu, or just blithely calling it affection, to me also really misses the point of bond the two had developed over the course of their films. And this is different to me than like, oh, what if Pa Kent just went to an adoption agency, and he loved that kid just as much as Clark. Because the fact that Pa Kent would have been a good father was to me always a point that was separate from the narrative.

It's more like what if Bruce Wayne got adopted by some other couple after his parent's got killed, and just got over it. That Bruce Wayne's parents represented an important and fundamentally irreplaceable relationship is a core part of the character.

To me the surrogate father/son relationship between Yondu and Quill is a core part of these characters too.

Obviously when we are talking about "core" aspects of characters, there is much room for disagreement. But to me, it just undercut the heart of the story for... nothing really.

I mean, if it had some real storytelling value, sure you can subvert those cores. But I don't really see that here, and nothing that you have said suggests otherwise.


6) That doesn't change the fact that he left, willingly (unlike Quill).

And when exactly are you saying he tried to return home or at least contact home? A year later? 10 years later? I mean, unless if he asked immediately after the scene cut away from him, and Yondu told him that Wakanda was just destroyed, it doesn't really change my opinion of the character.

Also, all of the sudden he's no longer a Prince? Who has responsibilities to his people? He's not some guy (like Quill) he supposedly has responsibilities for his people, but they just hand-waved him walking away from them.

Again, Mary Sue.

[Gorthon616]

Idk if this has been already stated, but season 2 will also deal with Phase 4

You mean Season 2 will also be in Phase 4?

[Metro]

1) Never asked for them to "redo" the Guardians, just stick to the themes and characterization. They did not, which you appear to agree with? Obviously, story elements change, but you are essentially changing the heart of the story if you remove the themes of the Guardians.

I mean, what themes did T'Challa bring? Nothing as far as I can tell. While Boseman was good in Black Panther, he was mostly a reactive character in it. One of the main criticisms of the film. Heck, he was reactive in Civil War as well.

They could have easily written the story to have him have some hardship that he overcomes, but instead the first "challenge" he encounters is a over enthusiastic fanboy. If that isn't proof he is a Mary Sue, I don't know what is.


2) Uhh, I mean many people have read this to be just dumping on Quill. https://www.themarysue.com/episode-2...tts-star-lord/

For the record, I don't read themarysue, and in fact have not even read the cited article, I got that opinion on my own. Just stumbled across this when I was seeing if other people felt the same as I did.


3) Yeah, and he's like 6 years old or something, and as far as has been shown in the MCU standard space technology is more advanced that Wakanda. Let's also not forget that Wakanda is also backwards in many regards, like the tribal systems and the monarchy. (No offense to the Monarchists I suppose)

And also so what? If you're in America (or whatever other country you want to say is the most technologically advanced), if a space aliens pick you up, I'm pretty sure that you'll find yourself quickly out of your depths, not giving space TED talks.

The point isn't that T'Challa or whoever couldn't done better than Quill. The point is that T'Challa is poorly written as a Mary Sue and is boring.


5) To me this just felt like a pretty low blow narratively speaking. Usually with this sort of multiverse level stories the important bonds are shown to crossover even in alternate realities. (See Spider-Man and Mary Jane and plenty of other examples).

That Quill was just some guy that got along with Yondu, or just blithely calling it affection, to me also really misses the point of bond the two had developed over the course of their films. And this is different to me than like, oh, what if Pa Kent just went to an adoption agency, and he loved that kid just as much as Clark. Because the fact that Pa Kent would have been a good father was to me always a point that was separate from the narrative.

It's more like what if Bruce Wayne got adopted by some other couple after his parent's got killed, and just got over it. That Bruce Wayne's parents represented an important and fundamentally irreplaceable relationship is a core part of the character.

To me the surrogate father/son relationship between Yondu and Quill is a core part of these characters too.

Obviously when we are talking about "core" aspects of characters, there is much room for disagreement. But to me, it just undercut the heart of the story for... nothing really.

I mean, if it had some real storytelling value, sure you can subvert those cores. But I don't really see that here, and nothing that you have said suggests otherwise.


6) That doesn't change the fact that he left, willingly (unlike Quill).

And when exactly are you saying he tried to return home or at least contact home? A year later? 10 years later? I mean, unless if he asked immediately after the scene cut away from him, and Yondu told him that Wakanda was just destroyed, it doesn't really change my opinion of the character.

Also, all of the sudden he's no longer a Prince? Who has responsibilities to his people? He's not some guy (like Quill) he supposedly has responsibilities for his people, but they just hand-waved him walking away from them.

Again, Mary Sue.

Again you're basically just asking them to redo Guardians with T'Challa, and these people who take the episode as dumping on Peter are wrong I mean you're linking The Mary Sue for goodness sake it is a garbage website, yeah T'Challa was young when he left that doesn't change the fact he's smart person from a civilization that's based around advanced technology, and you are basically just saying that in universe where Yondu never met Peter, Yondu isn't allowed to bond with other people.
And again you can keep saying mary sue, it doesn't change facts.

[Gorthon616]

Again you're basically just asking them to redo Guardians with T'Challa, and these people who take the episode as dumping on Peter are wrong I mean you're linking The Mary Sue for goodness sake it is a garbage website, yeah T'Challa was young when he left that doesn't change the fact he's smart person from a civilization that's based around advanced technology, and you are basically just saying that in universe where Yondu never met Peter, Yondu isn't allowed to bond with other people.
And again you can keep saying mary sue, it doesn't change facts.

LOL. Well, this was a waste of time trying to express a differing opinion and have a discussion about it.

"You're wrong! And everything you say is wrong! I have facts!"

[CosmiComic]

You mean Season 2 will also be in Phase 4?

I mean season 2 will also involve storylines based on phase 4 projects, IIRC

[Gorthon616]

https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/ac-bra...t-if-interview

Speaking of amazing/douchey, is T'Challa just that great or is Peter Quill really that bad?

Bradley: I think T'Challa really is that great. He's the king. When it came to constructing episode two, we looked at who T'Challa is. And in the comic books and in the movie, he's not a character that arcs. He doesn't go through massive changes himself. He changes the world around him. He steps forward and he becomes the leader, and he lets that affect everyone and change everyone else. So we were able to show that side to him, amplified tenfold with this notion of: "What if T'Challa was in the galaxy? How [would] he rewrite the entire universe just by his presence?"

Peter Quill's an okay kid.