Marvel Studios' WHAT IF...? (2021)

[Derek Metaltron]

spoilers:

was that thing supposed to be Hive like Agents of Shield? Because when Red Skull said Hydra had a secret purpose to bring someone in space to earth, my first thought was Hive, then it also turns out to be a tentacle monster. Also I'm guessing they don't have the rights to Hugo Weaving's likeness after they recasted, since he's the only one who looks different.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

I thought it might be Shuma Gorath at one point and got very excited, but I think it might be one of the monsters from the opening of GOTG2? They're a bit similar.

end of spoilers

[green_garnish]

I personally found the animation to be substandard, cheap, and inconsistent. The story held so little interest for me that I got distracted by Twitter at the finale and didn't really care to rewind it to see where the hell Starro came from or why.

MCU deserved something groundbreaking. This seems like in five years it's in danger of being a trivia question.

[Cyke]

First episode was great. I'm thoroughly impressed with the animation and production value.

The direction and energy reminded me a bit of some old-school, pre-CGI Disney animation at times, right down to expressions of surprise. I'm okay with this art style, especially for a television show.

Agreed, I thought it looks amazing and the voice acting (established and new) were all excellent, I thought the guy playing Red Skull especially did a good job channeling Hugo's performance. Even though this one was more of a more straight alternate take on First Avenger it was still entertaining and I loved Captain Carter so I hope she does show up some day in live action.[/spoil]

That's Ross Marquand, who played Red Skull in Endgame. Hugo Weaving, I suppose, is sticking to his declaration that he doesn't want to do the role anymore, though I was hoping simply voicing the role would be enough. Still, Marquand did a good job just like in Endgame, and his talent of mimicry is still exceptional.

spoilers:

was that thing supposed to be Hive like Agents of Shield? Because when Red Skull said Hydra had a secret purpose to bring someone in space to earth, my first thought was Hive, then it also turns out to be a tentacle monster. Also I'm guessing they don't have the rights to Hugo Weaving's likeness after they recasted, since he's the only one who looks different.

end of spoilers

I hope so, if just to keep that connection between film and pre-Disney+ television going.

[Immortal Weapon]

I liked the first episode. It borrowed too much from First Avenger for my liking. It didn't deviate enough. I'm little disappointed that Peggy didn't take up the Union Jack name

spoilers:

I hope that monster Red Skull summoned is Shuma Gorath. I want him in the MCU

end of spoilers

[useridgoeshere]

I liked it a lot. The look, acting and action was spot on.

I wonder if any will be like old school What If’s where the outcome was usually horribly bad. That’s not necessarily Marvel’s brand but it occurred to me. I figured they wouldn’t go there here if it meant implying that a female super soldier would result in something awful happening.

[Immortal Weapon]

I never did like the old school way of What If. The original story being the best result always rubbed me the wrong way.

[inisideguy]

I really enjoyed it.

[Username taken]

I actually really enjoyed this.

It followed the First Avenger a bit too much but I really liked it.

And I love the animation style.

[Stars & Stripes]

I liked it a lot. The look, acting and action was spot on.

I wonder if any will be like old school What If’s where the outcome was usually horribly bad. That’s not necessarily Marvel’s brand but it occurred to me. I figured they wouldn’t go there here if it meant implying that a female super soldier would result in something awful happening.

There's apparently an upcoming episode where

spoilers:

the prospective Avengers are all killed off one by one before the events of the first movie

end of spoilers

[Cyke]

Upon further reflection, I'm a little more disappointed with this episode -- it seems to play it too safe, with Howard Stark creating a proto Iron Man suit (there wasn't anything to stop him in the main timeline of he could do it all this time, after all).

But rather, the world's first superhero being a woman would have major ramifications of a different kind, even if Peggy was trying to avoid being a propaganda puppet like in TFA. We see some shades of that with the sexist general, sure, but it would have been nice to see both public reaction, as well as the influence Carter had on gender politics while she was gone. The best What If stories really focused on ramifications from even the smallest of changes, and the fact that both in-and-out of the comics Captain America was made to be a very public symbol is just ripe for the picking.

As it is, the episode is merely a palette swap and those are fairly boring in hindsight.

[inisideguy]

Upon further reflection, I'm a little more disappointed with this episode -- it seems to play it too safe, with Howard Stark creating a proto Iron Man suit (there wasn't anything to stop him in the main timeline of he could do it all this time, after all).

But rather, the world's first superhero being a woman would have major ramifications of a different kind, even if Peggy was trying to avoid being a propaganda puppet like in TFA. We see some shades of that with the sexist general, sure, but it would have been nice to see both public reaction, as well as the influence Carter had on gender politics while she was gone. The best What If stories really focused on ramifications from even the smallest of changes, and the fact that both in-and-out of the comics Captain America was made to be a very public symbol is just ripe for the picking.

As it is, the episode is merely a palette swap and those are fairly boring in hindsight.

No offense but you are trying to make to much out a 30 minute cartoon.

[Mercury]

The first episode was excellent.

[Cyke]

No offense but you are trying to make to much out a 30 minute cartoon.

That's just it, though -- we have cartoons that have shown various feminist gender politics since the 80s (even GI Joe and Tiny Toons, but not from a historical variance perspective, of course). But even so, just a small montage here and there or a brief scene would take a couple minutes to show, max. A small montage about people going nuts by Captain Carter, like women celebrating that mimics the world's reaction to Steve in TFA would be pretty on-brand (there were already a handful of scenes doing just that here) without taking up a lot of time. Moreso, just as how Steve was a source of inspiration for America in TFA, Carter's shield alone would likely have the same effect for the UK during something like the Blitz -- WW2 was one of Britain's darkest moments, when it nearly fell.

I'd also counter that, given the death count of this episode (understandable since it's WW2), the episode aims for a more mature audience than your usual Sat morning fare. Indeed, the sexist general character exists as a foil to Carter, and doesn't really push back against other characters -- that's fine and all but a small montage of patriotic feminism (like Rosie the Riveter) would push that angle just a bit further.

I'm reminded of X-Men: TAS, when alt Logan and Storm travel to the 50s. They didn't avoid or skirt how a black woman in an interracial relationship would have faced hostility. It didn't take up a lot of screentime but a 2 min scene was enough to make an impact, as avoiding it would have been dishonest. It was commentary that racism isnt just bad but woefully outdated. In fairness to this episode, the ridiculousness is the whole point behind the sexist general character, but I'd wager those scenes had even less time than the X-Men example. It's lip service here in What If, rather than social commentary.

As it is, it's a slick and well-founded production but it wouldn't take much to push the envelope a little further, especially since the central conceit of the What If concept is that anything is possible in any direction because of one small difference. A mere palette swap is too timid unless you really flesh it out.

[inisideguy]

That's just it, though -- we have cartoons that have shown various feminist gender politics since the 80s (even GI Joe and Tiny Toons, but not from a historical variance perspective, of course). But even so, just a small montage here and there or a brief scene would take a couple minutes to show, max.

I'd also counter that, given the death count of this episode (understandable since it's WW2), the episode aims for a more mature audience than your usual Sat morning fare. Indeed, the sexist general character exists as a foil to Carter, and doesn't really push back against other characters -- that's fine and all but a small montage would push that angle just a bit further.

As it is, it's a slick and well-founded production but it wouldn't take much to push the envelope a little further, especially since the central conceit of the What If concept is that anything is possible in any direction because of one small difference. A mere palette swap is too timid unless you really flesh it out.

Maybe your expectations as far as social politics are a little to much for a show like this thats all I am saying. They highlight things. Its 30 minutes long. Its a cartoon. This isn't a 18 episode show centered on the same characters.

[KabutoRyder]

Maybe your expectations as far as social politics are a little to much for a show like this thats all I am saying. They highlight things. Its 30 minutes long. Its a cartoon. This isn't a 18 episode show centered on the same characters.

Dude just gave an example of how a 22 min cartoon episode accomplished what he was looking for. So it can be done without needing to be an 18 episode show centered on the same characters.