Marvel Studios' WHAT IF...? (2021)

[inisideguy]

Ok, but Nazis also have a fairly rough real-world history that's not kid friendly





Interesting analysis. Still, I don't totally understand what is considered "child friendly." IMO, war as a whole isn't child friendly.

I never thought the Empire was real kid friendly either real world or not. I mean you can use the NAZIs as an analogy and call it real world. But I mean the MCU isn't the real world.

[inisideguy]

This could easily turn into a long-winded essay about what's been considered appropriate in children's entertainment and changing standards

But to some extent, maybe it's because through their own juvenile aspects the Nazis positioned themselves all too well as juvenile/pulp fiction villains.

Not to downplay their atrocities, seeing as they're the first regime to ever industrialize the act of genocide. However, one of the reasons that journalists often wrote off Hitler when he first appeared on the political stage is that he speechified in broad, childish terms about good and evil and German glory and history. The higher-ups in the Nazi regime were for the most part a group of cruel, maladjusted, emotionally stunted, bookish, man-children gripped with a sort of "boy against the world" paranoia. And they liked to sit around crumbling castles reinventing Norse mythology, obsessing about the occult and dreaming up ludicrous "super-weapons" (they're starting to sound like a D&D group gone horribly awry). I've even heard stories about them trying to pass off battle plans they stole from Karl May novels (note: Karl May was a German youth adventure fiction author) as functional battle plans. I mean, there's a reason why one of the first things that Nazis did when they came to power was establish a fascist version of the Boy Scouts.

The Nazis were terrible, cruel, dangerous and terribly childish all at the same time. And about a third of the stuff they tried (and failed) to do sounds like something out of an old pulp fiction novel for twelve-year-olds.

Also . . . the movies and What If both have Hydra split off from the Nazis pretty darn early. So, movie Captain America went to war with the fictional Hydra while real people were fighting Nazis.

Yea they did an interesting thing. They basically made a fictional organization, split off from a real one. So Hydra is basically the Empire in Star Was. I always have found it interesting how recent Hollywood almost always resorts to a couple villain archetypes. NAZIs, Some evil maybe Eastern Europeans or Russians who are basically Nazi types. Maybe a South African who is a Nazi type. NAZIs were really bad but I do think Hollywood get lazy when casting villains. I Should say maybe they cast and English guy who is a NAZI type. I guess you really can't offend to many people casting NAZIs as villains all the time.

[Speed Force League Unlimited]

I felt Josh Keaton did a nice job doing an impression of Chris Evans, I was almost tricked if not for two moments that made me realize who really voiced Steve in this episode. The same goes for the one imitating Hugo Weaving (whose name I can't remember right now), that was pretty amazing impression.

To think that a certain invention exists in this time just because there is a Stark involved makes the meaning of Iron Man lose some of its originality, and the Hydra destroyer was more of an Iron Giant lookalike.

Steve was more stealthy and calculating in the movie, here he is overconfident cause he wears a flying fast moving tank, and it felt out of character.

Tommy Lee Jones character was kinda cold in the movie, but here he's just a jerk merely cause the Captain of the story is a woman.

Peggy felt more overconfident than a well adjusted agent, the shield and her suit were made just cause stuff happened in film, aaand... yeah, this happened.


Fun first episode, but not a well told story that takes the right amount of consideration of continuity and characters
3/5

[CosmiComic]

I never thought the Empire was real kid friendly either real world or not. I mean you can use the NAZIs as an analogy and call it real world. But I mean the MCU isn't the real world.

MCU isn't, but technically Nazis are. HYDRA is the fictional offshoot

Tbh, a lot of this stuff is inherently kid unfriendly. Idk if kids care about politics or war.

Yea they did an interesting thing. They basically made a fictional organization, split off from a real one. So Hydra is basically the Empire in Star Was. I always have found it interesting how recent Hollywood almost always resorts to a couple villain archetypes. NAZIs, Some evil maybe Eastern Europeans or Russians who are basically Nazi types. Maybe a South African who is a Nazi type. NAZIs were really bad but I do think Hollywood get lazy when casting villains. I Should say maybe they cast and English guy who is a NAZI type. I guess you really can't offend to many people casting NAZIs as villains all the time.

If you use other real world villains, a bunch of people start complaining about "keep politics out of muh superheroes" or something like that

[inisideguy]

MCU isn't, but technically Nazis are. HYDRA is the fictional offshoot

Tbh, a lot of this stuff is inherently kid unfriendly. Idk if kids care about politics or war.



If you use other real world villains, a bunch of people start complaining about "keep politics out of muh superheroes" or something like that

LOL your not wrong. But isn't casting NAZI types technically political as well?

[j9ac9k]

Tommy Lee Jones character was kinda cold in the movie, but here he's just a jerk merely cause the Captain of the story is a woman.

That wasn't the Tommy Lee Jones character. His character was shot and killed in the beginning. This jerk character is the same jerk character in the "Agent Carter" one-shot.

[CosmiComic]

LOL your not wrong. But isn't casting NAZI types technically political as well?

It is, but that irony is lost on those people. Anything vaguely criticizing the status quo is "political" (i.e. FaWS), but Nazis somehow aren't.

[inisideguy]

It is, but that irony is lost on those people. Anything vaguely criticizing the status quo is "political" (i.e. FaWS), but Nazis somehow aren't.

Hmm good point about FAWS now that I think about it. That was pretty political and not your standard, NAZIs. I enjoyed the show I just wish it would have been a little better defined.

[CosmiComic]

Hmm good point about FAWS now that I think about it. That was pretty political and not your standard, NAZIs. I enjoyed the show I just wish it would have been a little better defined.

It has its problems, but it did try to speak a little bit about an issue affecting people in the real world.

[Speed Force League Unlimited]

That wasn't the Tommy Lee Jones character. His character was shot and killed in the beginning. This jerk character is the same jerk character in the "Agent Carter" one-shot.

I was wondering why they gave him glasses here.

[AdamFTF]

Interesting analysis. Still, I don't totally understand what is considered "child friendly." IMO, war as a whole isn't child friendly.

That's a 100 Million Dollar question.

Different cultures in different parts of the world have their own ideas about what is and isn't okay for kids to see. It's largely decided by what parents are comfortable with. Here in the U.S. since at least the '70s, parents don't like kids to see blood. They also don't like to see characters engage in "repeatable behavior" that they don't want their kids to do (like drinking alcohol or smoking). And they don't like to see heroes fight villains directly (memories of the Super Friends never throwing a punch and the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles fighting Shredder by hitting one thing to make another thing trip him or something). But it's different from country to country. Parents back in the '90s were shocked at how violent Power Rangers was, because they actually fought their enemies directly. But the footage was from Japan, where it's deemed okay for heroes to destroy the villains provided the villains aren't human. It changes throughout time too. Someone once tried to tell me the Golden Age Batman stories were really adult because "Batman carried a gun". But it used to be S.O.P. for youth adventure heroes to carry guns. You know how many westerns kids used to watch? Or how many pulp detective stories they'd read?

In regards to What If?, it's probably just easier for them to keep their hands clean by not showing any blood. From my perspective, I just think it's weird that someone would find its lack to be a problem. I don't watch gory stuff, so I can't imagine going "That's weird. Where's the blood?"

[inisideguy]

That's a 100 Million Dollar question.

Different cultures in different parts of the world have their own ideas about what is and isn't okay for kids to see. It's largely decided by what parents are comfortable with. Here in the U.S. since at least the '70s, parents don't like kids to see blood. They also don't like to see characters engage in "repeatable behavior" that they don't want their kids to do (like drinking alcohol or smoking). And they don't like to see heroes fight villains directly (memories of the Super Friends never throwing a punch and the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles fighting Shredder by hitting one thing to make another thing trip him or something). But it's different from country to country. Parents back in the '90s were shocked at how violent Power Rangers was, because they actually fought their enemies directly. But the footage was from Japan, where it's deemed okay for heroes to destroy the villains provided the villains aren't human. It changes throughout time too. Someone once tried to tell me the Golden Age Batman stories were really adult because "Batman carried a gun". But it used to be S.O.P. for youth adventure heroes to carry guns. You know how many westerns kids used to watch? Or how many pulp detective stories they'd read?

In regards to What If?, it's probably just easier for them to keep their hands clean by not showing any blood. From my perspective, I just think it's weird that someone would find its lack to be a problem. I don't watch gory stuff, so I can't imagine going "That's weird. Where's the blood?"

Well I mean I don't think you are talking about currently when saying they don't like to see the heroes fight the villains directly. I mean thats what they do in super hero cartoons now a days.

[Sutekh]

When Skull was talking earlier in the episode about summoning a 'champion' I was kind of hoping we'd get an early appearance by Thor, whom he'd (wrongly) assume would be some Aryan demigod who'd totally embrace his supremacist nonsense.

Red Skull - "Behold, our champion! The lightning war begins with the god of thunder!"

Thor - "Yeah, you guys are nuts. I just answered your summons because I saw some fools that needed some serious smiting..."

[CosmiComic]

That's a 100 Million Dollar question.

Different cultures in different parts of the world have their own ideas about what is and isn't okay for kids to see. It's largely decided by what parents are comfortable with. Here in the U.S. since at least the '70s, parents don't like kids to see blood. They also don't like to see characters engage in "repeatable behavior" that they don't want their kids to do (like drinking alcohol or smoking). And they don't like to see heroes fight villains directly (memories of the Super Friends never throwing a punch and the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles fighting Shredder by hitting one thing to make another thing trip him or something). But it's different from country to country. Parents back in the '90s were shocked at how violent Power Rangers was, because they actually fought their enemies directly. But the footage was from Japan, where it's deemed okay for heroes to destroy the villains provided the villains aren't human. It changes throughout time too. Someone once tried to tell me the Golden Age Batman stories were really adult because "Batman carried a gun". But it used to be S.O.P. for youth adventure heroes to carry guns. You know how many westerns kids used to watch? Or how many pulp detective stories they'd read?

In regards to What If?, it's probably just easier for them to keep their hands clean by not showing any blood. From my perspective, I just think it's weird that someone would find its lack to be a problem. I don't watch gory stuff, so I can't imagine going "That's weird. Where's the blood?"

I can see why it would break immersion for some people if someone gets shot and doesn't bleed

I also don't quite understand why someone would expect a genre based on fighting villains to not actually have combat. Why not watch something else?

[Frontier]

When Skull was talking earlier in the episode about summoning a 'champion' I was kind of hoping we'd get an early appearance by Thor, whom he'd (wrongly) assume would be some Aryan demigod who'd totally embrace his supremacist nonsense.

Red Skull - "Behold, our champion! The lightning war begins with the god of thunder!"

Thor - "Yeah, you guys are nuts. I just answered your summons because I saw some fools that needed some serious smiting..."

I thought he was going to use the Space Stone to bring Thanos down there earlier.