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  1. #121
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    If you wanna just complain about her being beat up by Catwoman then fine, I agree.

    But I'm pretty sure that you pointed at WW84 as an example of Cheetah being weak, which is the part I find totally ridiculous, because Cheetah has never been shown as stronger than she was in WW84. Faster? Sure, she has been faster. But not stronger.

    And I think the argument that Cheetah is super strong just because she can throw around Diana, is invalid. You yourself have admitted that Diana's strength is volatile, so why would Cheetah be any more consistent?
    Last edited by Alpha; 08-03-2021 at 08:02 AM.

  2. #122
    Still only crumbs...... BiteTheBullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy_McNichts View Post
    Such as?

    She fought Ares with super strength, speed, and her Lasso. She floated a few times, and we all know how pissy you are about Diana not flying.

    https://thumbs.gfycat.com/HideousLan...lo-max-1mb.gif
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/da/93...797d504d41.gif
    https://64.media.tumblr.com/7636cf3b...90b8o3_400.gif
    https://pa1.narvii.com/6499/fe653eba...d26a94a_hq.gif

    She used her bracelet shock-wave attack, which was set up earlier in the movie and she's used multiple times in other movies.


    And then she killed Ares by absorbing the lightning he shot at her with her bracelets and firing it back at him.

    https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DemandingL...an-max-1mb.gif

    And she's summoned lightning with her bracelets in other movies.
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b7/69...525d8ee506.gif

    About the only thing she did that seemed out of line with her established powers was making the weapons Ares threw at her disintegrating just by looking at them.
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1f/fe...93b7413678.gif
    And even that seemed to play into the apparent "god-mode" that she tapped into for the finale.


    It's funny how people complain how these movies never demonstrate Wonder Woman as a powerhouse, yet the fight where she actually has a big, smashy-smashy powerhouse brawl is the one no one likes.
    The disintegration was pulled out of her ass. The absorb lightning with her bracers and then throwing it back at Ares was also out of her ass. The only movie prior to the first WW was BvS and I didn't see any of that in there. The levitation/hovering let us all think that maybe she could fly, but that appeared to be false. The boosh attack was sort of undefined because we first saw it in BvS and that was a power that she has never had before in the comics. They defined it more in her movie, but against the big bads like Doomsday and Ares and Steppenwolf , had little to no effect besides moving them backwards.

    They could have had a good third act in WW by setting up Ares better and possibly a different actor playing the part. Thewlis is a fine actor, but I don't think he fit the role as I envisioned him. If it had been more like the Perez look, that would have improved things vastly.

    And to complain about how they try and demonstrate her as a powerhouse but no one likes the 3rd act brawl is because we had a great story, bordering on awesome, until the 3rd act.

    Now, if they had somehow managed to incorporate the Smallville battle in MoS as an analogue to the 3rd act in WW, I think I could have been satisfied.

    Sorry for you to get pissy about me wanting her to fly, but for all the people that said she could based on this movie whereas I kept asking the people for the evidence of flight, I felt vindicated about my arguments. Of course, it took her 4th appearance in a movie to finally fly (whether on air currents or not, still up in the air in my opinion), yet it doesn't explain her lack of flight in BvS or JL. Just another example of the people in the DC letting us know that WW shouldn't and can't compete with the male heroes. I forget, did Shazam fly in his origin story (sarcasm)!
    Last edited by BiteTheBullet; 08-03-2021 at 04:16 AM.

  3. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by masterwitcher88 View Post
    You know, you could easily argue that the fight fell flat and failed because the 3rd act specifically undermined the other 2. Like, I know a ton of people complained about the big grey CGI villain at the end and it is annoying. But, the build up and the mystery and the general confusion to Ares being who he was, aka the guy that weirdly wanted to end the war, with 0 hints until the "revel" was a major factor in the sour 3rd act too. There wasn't anything to Ares as a villain and he just ended up using cheap video game villain dialogue. They had something with him saying that he didn't force the humans to do anything, he just gave them an idea, they're the ones that went to war. His actor was poorly cast imo, his armor was just weak CGI covered in dark colors despite being just a more detailed spartan/knight armor, motivations as boring as can be with nothing to really grasp the audience. It was a poor showing of one of my favorite characters in the wonder mythos tbh.

    I could sit here and type out what a bunch of other posters have said here in that just adapting the Perez story with some changes to fit a movie run time would have been better.
    I’m not going to dispute that. But BiteTheBullet was complaining about the powers Diana demonstrated during the fight, and I was simply pointing out she really didn’t do anything that she isn’t capable of.

    If you want to discuss the problems with Ares’ motivation and how that clashes with the themes of the movie—and I would likely agree with many of those points—that’s a different topic.


    Quote Originally Posted by mystical41 View Post
    Ares is featless in the DCEU outside the WW battle where he didn't do anything ultra powerful. The power level for the first film was acceptable since it was an origin story where she was just discovering her powers. But outside of that. She did nothing impressive compared to what high tier characters have done in movies. Such as Superman, Hulk, Thor, Captain Marvel etc. Her speed feats were ok but nothing super amazing. Her best strength was lifting a 30 tons tanks. Her hits never created even minor shock waves. Her durability was ok. Nothing spectacular. So again. acceptable for an origin story where she is just starting to learn about her powers. But nothing more than that.
    Not what I was talking about, but good try though.

    Quote Originally Posted by mystical41 View Post
    Under jenkins and geoff i don't think WW3 will have any meaning in terms of showing a powerful archy villain. Either way that's besides the point. This thread is not about that. Cheetah is said to be powered up by a God. But they barely ever show it. The character has a very bad trackrecord getting beat up by humans.
    But what feats does this god have? We've never seen this god do anything impressive! How can we know he's really powerful unless he arm wrestles Superman and knocks out the Hulk with a sneeze?

    "I can't enjoy anything unless the fictional characters involved satisfy an arbitrary power scale that exists only in my own head."
    Christ, what a miserable, joyless way to engage with media.


    Quote Originally Posted by BiteTheBullet View Post
    The disintegration was pulled out of her ass. The absorb lightning with her bracers and then throwing it back at Ares was also out of her ass. The only movie prior to the first WW was BvS and I didn't see any of that in there. The levitation/hovering let us all think that maybe she could fly, but that appeared to be false. The boosh attack was sort of undefined because we first saw it in BvS and that was a power that she has never had before in the comics. They defined it more in her movie, but against the big bads like Doomsday and Ares and Steppenwolf , had little to no effect besides moving them backwards.
    Oh, okay. They just don't count because you said so.

  4. #124
    Still only crumbs...... BiteTheBullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy_McNichts View Post
    Oh, okay. They just don't count because you said so.
    [/IMG]
    Not because I said so, but because we had no reason to believe that she could do anything like that!

  5. #125
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BiteTheBullet View Post
    The boosh attack was sort of undefined because we first saw it in BvS and that was a power that she has never had before in the comics. They defined it more in her movie, but against the big bads like Doomsday and Ares and Steppenwolf , had little to no effect besides moving them backwards.
    Are you talking about the shockwave effect with the bracers?
    IMG_20210803_122147.jpg

  6. #126
    Still only crumbs...... BiteTheBullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Are you talking about the shockwave effect with the bracers?
    IMG_20210803_122147.jpg
    I don't recall ever seeing this, and if it is now considered one of her abilities, how often has she been using this in the comics?

  7. #127
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BiteTheBullet View Post
    I don't recall ever seeing this, and if it is now considered one of her abilities, how often has she been using this in the comics?
    It's from WW 201 by Greg Rucka. The big showdown where Themyscira gets destroyed. I don't know if it was used elsewhere, but it wasn't created by the movie. I'm not a big fan of it though, I'm just pointing out that it was first done in the comics.

  8. #128
    Still only crumbs...... BiteTheBullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    It's from WW 201 by Greg Rucka. The big showdown where Themyscira gets destroyed. I don't know if it was used elsewhere, but it wasn't created by the movie. I'm not a big fan of it though, I'm just pointing out that it was first done in the comics.
    It does not quite seem to be the same as the 'boosh' attack. The only thing besides deflecting attacks that I thought she could do with the bracers is sort of like a protective (aegeus?) shield around her.

  9. #129

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    Summoning lightning before the New 52:

  10. #130
    Still only crumbs...... BiteTheBullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy_McNichts View Post
    Summoning lightning before the New 52:
    I know she has done this before in the Gail Simone era, but again, never shown before in the DCEU universe, or implied. And she rarely used this ability in the comics. So I still stand by my statement of using an ability out of her 'ass'. How many normal movie goers that watch the movie realize that she redirect lightning because she may have done that once or twice in the comics? I give you that more people thought she could fly based on animation that she was in than having lightning powers.

  11. #131
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    Good to know the parallels were intentional.

    Do we know if Marston considered her Diana's archenemy or was it Paula Von Gunther in his mind?
    Hmmm, I think in the beginning that might have been his intent with Von Gunther, since she was WW first reoccurring villain and was a nazi during the heavy focused WWII era.

    But, I think Cheetah was created to be a more long-lasting villain, someone whose motives had no tie to the war.
    ~I just keep swimming through these threads~

  12. #132

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    Quote Originally Posted by BiteTheBullet View Post
    I know she has done this before in the Gail Simone era, but again, never shown before in the DCEU universe, or implied. And she rarely used this ability in the comics. So I still stand by my statement of using an ability out of her 'ass'. How many normal movie goers that watch the movie realize that she redirect lightning because she may have done that once or twice in the comics? I give you that more people thought she could fly based on animation that she was in than having lightning powers.
    Normal movie-goers don't give a **** about that. Only pedantic comic nerds and those idiots at CinemaSins do. The average movie-goer sees Diana summon lightning and thinks: "Well, she's Zeus' daughter. Why wouldn't she?"

  13. #133
    Ultimate Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    Good to know the parallels were intentional.

    Do we know if Marston considered her Diana's archenemy or was it Paula Von Gunther in his mind?
    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    Hmmm, I think in the beginning that might have been his intent with Von Gunther, since she was WW first reoccurring villain and was a nazi during the heavy focused WWII era.

    But, I think Cheetah was created to be a more long-lasting villain, someone whose motives had no tie to the war.
    What Fish said most likely. Maybe when she was first created but she was reformed fairly early on and so if anyone took that spot Cheetah would have been the next option given Marston and Peters clearly liked using the character.

    The no-ties to WW2 is a good point since I think almost every time Paula's shown up again there's usually something WW2 related (LoWW, Earth One trilogy, Post-Crisis Byrne run, DC: Bombshells, the WW2 first season of the Lynda Carter show). Even her recent reappearance in modern comics made her a descendent of people who worked with the Nazis.
    Last edited by Gaius; 08-03-2021 at 05:55 AM.

  14. #134
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy_McNichts View Post
    It's funny how people complain how these movies never demonstrate Wonder Woman as a powerhouse, yet the fight where she actually has a big, smashy-smashy powerhouse brawl is the one no one likes.
    And she demonstrated “more power” in her fight with Ares in her movie, than Batman/Superman: Apocalypse, which had that super cool and well animated choreographed fight with the Furies that everyone loves, and was pretty on par in terms of power display with the Cheetah fight in WW84.

    But her battles don’t level a cities, so I guess that’s not enough for some.
    Last edited by I'm a Fish; 08-03-2021 at 06:02 AM.
    ~I just keep swimming through these threads~

  15. #135
    Still only crumbs...... BiteTheBullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    And she demonstrated “more power” in her fight with Ares in her movie, than Batman/Superman: Apocalypse, which had that super cool and well animated choreographed fight with the Furies that everyone loves, and was pretty on par in terms of power display with the Cheetah fight in WW84.

    But her battles don’t level a cities, so I guess that’s not enough for some.
    I would have loved a well choreographed fight between WW and Cheetah. And well lit. But we got none of that in WW84. Like I have said before, one of the worst boss fights in comic movie book history!

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