Why many writers fail to write Cheetah be writen as a powerhouse?

[Perseus]

This is what happens when Superman and Doomsday fight.



Compare that to Cheetah's fight with Diana in Savage Moon. I reallly like Priscilla Rich. I enjoyed the Rucka stories with Cheetah in rebirth (Barbara Minnerva not so much). But don't pretend that Cheetah has ever been a powerhouse. She has thrown around Wonder Woman, which is also true of many other characters.

And? Its Doomsday, the grey monster that killed.... I mean, put Superman in a coma for like 6 weeks. Doomsday and Cheetah don't fight the same. This means nothing.

[Gaius]

And? Its Doomsday, the grey monster that killed.... I mean, put Superman in a coma for like 6 weeks. Doomsday and Cheetah don't fight the same. This means nothing.

Excuse you. Krpytonian Healing Coma, thankyouverymuch.

[Perseus]

Excuse you. Krpytonian Healing Coma, thankyouverymuch.

Mea Culpa.

[Rightoya]

Nah they were normal fights. Wonder Woman is a pretty volatile character so there's no reason to pretend that this random instance among the many times Diana has been thrown around suddenly means something huge.

So it was no plot armor for Cheetah, but poor writing for Wonder Woman? Cheetah seems to be not a worthy villain for Wonder Woman in your opinion, but that could get used for the thread question, because Cheetah's power level seems to be a far bigger problem than i thought if she forces Wonder Woman to job enough that she is not even strong enough to devaste a street and shatter some windows with the shock-waves anymore.

[Alpha]

Dude I'm over this argument, but you and I seem to disagree on what "bad writing " is so let's not dive into that.

[Rightoya]

Dude I'm over this argument, but you and I seem to disagree on what "bad writing " is so let's bit dive into that.

Is this bad writing or not:



, because that is basically what you seem to say the fights between Cheetah and Wonder Woman were?

[BiteTheBullet]

Is this bad writing or not:



, because that is basically what you seem to say the fights between Cheetah and Wonder Woman were?

I still loved comic book Spiderman back then. It was a great fight, one that Firelord (if I remember his name right) could have gone supernova to win but decided against that and then Spiderman wins using his superior speed and strength (his strength still being less than that of Firelord) to win. Loved it back then. Of course, Ben Reilly happened and all the goodwill I had for Spidey was gone and title was dropped.

[Alpha]

Is this bad writing or not:

, because that is basically what you seem to say the fights between Cheetah and Wonder Woman were?

I made a typo. A meant to say "let's not dive into that". It's fixed now. Anyway, my point is just that Cheetah has never used her strength in a way that impressed me and I think people are really overselling her. Losing to Catwoman and Batman is bullcrap, but it doesn't mean that Cheetah has massive strength.

You can disagree with that all you want, but the only thing that will convince me I'm wrong is seeing her lift something heavy or cause a large amount of collateral damage. I feel like Solomon Grundy has done more impressive stuff than Cheetah.

And Shim'tar for example is far more powerful than cheetah

[HestiasHearth]

I mean, you seem to base Diana's strength based on the most powerful thing she has done. The strongest thing Deathstroke has done was probably fight Wonder Woman. And since every time those two faced each other it was kind of even, I guess Deathstroke can lift a submarine.

The simple fact that a Deathstroke/Wonder Woman fight is "even" is 100 % due to bad writing by mostly male writers who oversell most male characters. Batman is the perfect example. This whole "with enough preparation, he could beat the entire JL" is simply the fever dreams of a male-dominated industry that will, of course, give a male character the most impressive feat possible in the DC Universe. Notice how, despite Diana being blessed with the intelligence of a deity of wisdom (Athena), no DC writer even contemplated the idea of her being the one to come up with the whole "you know, any of us could conceivably enslave the planet [yes, even batman] if we wanted. I need to come up with a contingency plan to make sure that not even I can do that if we were under mind control or under the influence of Circe or whatnot" thing...

[Rightoya]

I still loved comic book Spiderman back then. It was a great fight, one that Firelord (if I remember his name right) could have gone supernova to win but decided against that and then Spiderman wins using his superior speed and strength (his strength still being less than that of Firelord) to win. Loved it back then. Of course, Ben Reilly happened and all the goodwill I had for Spidey was gone and title was dropped.

Are you serious? This is the classic example of plot induced supidity, because Spider-Man shouldn't even be able to hurt a Herald of Galactus, and how has Spider-Man used superior strength without being stronger in the first place?

I made a typo. A meant to say "let's not dive into that". It's fixed now. Anyway, my point is just that Cheetah has never used her strength in a way that impressed me and I think people are really overselling her. Losing to Catwoman and Batman is bullcrap, but it doesn't mean that Cheetah has massive strength.

You can disagree with that all you want, but the only thing that will convince me I'm wrong is seeing her lift something heavy or cause a large amount of collateral damage. I feel like Solomon Grundy has done more impressive stuff than Cheetah.

And Shim'tar for example is far more powerful than cheetah

That would just mean Wonder Woman jobbed any time they fought.

So your point is extremely poor writing, if even a physical Batman villain is stronger than a physical Wonder Woman villain?

When has the Shim'tar done any truly impressive collateral damage, or lifted anything heavy? The closest would be probably to use Hippolyta entierly, but even then it would be still just jobbing of Wonder Woman because Hippolyta capped out at throwing a plane as most impressive lifting as she fought her:

[Agent Z]

This thread makes me realize Diana doesn't have a lot of villains to test her strength and fighting skills.

The simple fact that a Deathstroke/Wonder Woman fight is "even" is 100 % due to bad writing by mostly male writers who oversell most male characters. Batman is the perfect example. This whole "with enough preparation, he could beat the entire JL" is simply the fever dreams of a male-dominated industry that will, of course, give a male character the most impressive feat possible in the DC Universe. Notice how, despite Diana being blessed with the intelligence of a deity of wisdom (Athena), no DC writer even contemplated the idea of her being the one to come up with the whole "you know, any of us could conceivably enslave the planet [yes, even batman] if we wanted. I need to come up with a contingency plan to make sure that not even I can do that if we were under mind control or under the influence of Circe or whatnot" thing...

Considering that character more often than not ends up being wrong, I wouldn't want Diana to be that character.

That said, working out ways to avoid mind control does seem reasonable.

[BiteTheBullet]

Are you serious? This is the classic example of plot induced supidity, because Spider-Man shouldn't even be able to hurt a Herald of Galactus, and how has Spider-Man used superior strength without being stronger in the first place?

I never said Spiderman was stronger than Firelord. Only that he used superior speed, spider sense (which I forgot to mention) and of course his strength while not at Firelords level was still considerable. If I remember right, Spidey was at approxiametly 10 tons lifting and Firelord back then was at 40 tons. And Firelord was probably the weakest of the Heralds. I did point out that if Firelord went supernova, the fight would be over and Spidey would be ash.

Because of his speed and spider sense, Firelord in close combat couldn't touch Spidey, so to me it made sense that Spidey could take him on under these conditions.

[Alpha]

The simple fact that a Deathstroke/Wonder Woman fight is "even" is 100 % due to bad writing by mostly male writers who oversell most male characters. Batman is the perfect example. This whole "with enough preparation, he could beat the entire JL" is simply the fever dreams of a male-dominated industry that will, of course, give a male character the most impressive feat possible in the DC Universe. Notice how, despite Diana being blessed with the intelligence of a deity of wisdom (Athena), no DC writer even contemplated the idea of her being the one to come up with the whole "you know, any of us could conceivably enslave the planet [yes, even batman] if we wanted. I need to come up with a contingency plan to make sure that not even I can do that if we were under mind control or under the influence of Circe or whatnot" thing...

I agree. I was using Deathstroke in a sarcastic manner to point out that Diana has been thrown around by what some people here would call "weaklings". So Cheetah's strength can't be based on one fight in 1990 that didn't even create much collateral damage aside from destroying the walls they crashed into. Many other characters have been able to do the same thing.

[Alpha]

So your point is extremely poor writing, if even a physical Batman villain is stronger than a physical Wonder Woman villain?

I don't consider power levels to be one of the criteria for good or bad writing. You can, if that's your prerogative, but I don't. That's why I said that you and I have very different definitions of bad writing.

Look at what Shim'tar vs Diana was like in #34 and #35 and compare it to the Cheetah fight in #31(Savage Moon)

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[Alpha]

IMG_20210804_130516.jpg

I'm not even a Shim'tar simp, but I think it's pitifull that some people pretend Cheetah is massively powerful, when just 3 issues later Shim'tar totally outclasses her.

The biggest thing Cheetah and Diana did during the fight was destroy one old rock house that clearly wasn't very robust and was full of cracks already.

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