Why many writers fail to write Cheetah be writen as a powerhouse?

[Alpha]

Wouldn't Eviless be Diana's archenemy in thr Marston era since she's the one that formed Villany Inc? Cheetah was following Eviless' instructions

[I'm a Fish]

I would have loved a well choreographed fight between WW and Cheetah. And well lit. But we got none of that in WW84. Like I have said before, one of the worst boss fights in comic movie book history!

I've definingly seen superhero movies with way worse "boss fight", which usually go hand-in-hand with unnecessary banter.

And I'm not referring to movies that came out 40 years ago, which would be an unfair comparison, but more recent movies.

[I'm a Fish]

Wouldn't Eviless be Diana's archenemy in thr Marston era since she's the one that formed Villany Inc? Cheetah was following her.

I sort-of pictured Eviless as a means-to-an-end in that regard. Plus every time Cheetah lead a group she had them dress up as zebras, not the best person to lead if you want all the villains in their normal costumes.

[BiteTheBullet]

I've definingly seen superhero movies with way worse "boss fight", which usually go hand-in-hand with unnecessary banter.

And I'm not referring to movies that came out 40 years ago, which would be an unfair comparison, but more recent movies.

Unless you are sworn to secrecy, which boss fights were worse than WW84?

[I'm a Fish]

Unless you are sworn to secrecy, which boss fights were worse than WW84?

Well, I wanted to avoid trash talking other movies. But here we go, I guess.

First off, any battle that has needless banter is already on my bad list since it means the director doesn't trust the audience to enjoy their action, so instead wants them to focus on the comedy (unless it's in-character like Spider-man). That's fine for entertainment value, but for the fight itself is a no-no.

Shazam: Shazam's final battle with Sivana checks all the boxes for what I consider to be a dull battle, it's two guys, they shoot lighting at each-other once, Sivana grabs Shazam's throat (with a move so over-done in movies it's lost all meaning) falling through the air until one of them hits a roof... that's it... that's the battle.

Thor Ragnorok: Final battle started out just fine, some cool flips, nice choreography. Then the fight grinds to a halt when Hela started hitting the check-boxes of "evil things I gotta say as a villain" like, "I expected more" accompanied by another throat grab, (again... throat grabs mean nothing anymore) Thor hits her with a big lighting blast aaaaaand fights over....

WandaVision: Not a movie but it's got the budget of one. Final battle had Wanda and Agatha shooting sparkles at each other and flying in circles in the air suuuuper slow... the Vision vs Vision fight was much better and more interesting. Not that I've really found Wanda's battles to be particularly interesting anyway, she has cool moments sure, but her fights are usually so one-sided and quick or it's just her throwing stuff around.

Wonder Woman: The Ares fight, I don't particularly dislike this fight as much as the others, but yeah, it was more boring than the Cheetah fight. Ares says typical villain things (I'm so glad Cheetah barley talked), throws some rocks at her, grabs her throat (omgggg movies gotta stop with this) WW using the lasso like a ribbon wand was cool though. Fight had too many dull moments though.

Justice League: (Either one): For reasons already stated a million times. Superman shows up and that's it, he decimates Steppenwolf, it wasn't even a fight and embarrasses the League in the process.

Fant4stic...That's it. That's all I'm gonna say. Worst final battle of any superhero movie.

I'm not going to go through every superhero movie but those are the ones I can think off of the top of my head.

Edit: Oh and I guess my most controversial one is the Superman vs Zod fight. Because the focus of that fight was the distruction it was causing, not Superman or Zod. (And for anyone who thinks that's not the case then why is it the destruction the opening of BvS. You don't even see Superman or Zod in the opening.) Plus it goes on for too long and the second half has the most awkward camera work I have ever seen in a battle, like the zooming into Zods eye as he spins Superman around by the cap. What is this camera work?!

[Alpha]

Damn I forgot how bad the Fant4stic fight is. And yeah I agree with most of your choices, just really boring fights, and most of them wayyy too long. WW84's final fight wasn't interesting, but at least it was short, which is very rare in super hero movies.

[BiteTheBullet]

Well, I wanted to avoid trash talking other movies. But here we go, I guess.

First off, any battle that has needless banter is already on my bad list since it means the director doesn't trust the audience to enjoy their action, so instead wants them to focus on the comedy (unless it's in-character like Spider-man). That's fine for entertainment value, but for the fight itself is a no-no.

Shazam: Shazam's final battle with Sivana checks all the boxes for what I consider to be a dull battle, it's two guys, they shoot lighting at each-other once, Sivana grabs Shazam's throat (with a move so over-done in movies it's lost all meaning) falling through the air until one of them hits a roof... that's it... that's the battle.

Thor Ragnorok: Final battle started out just fine, some cool flips, nice choreography. Then the fight grinds to a halt when Hela started hitting the check-boxes of "evil things I gotta say as a villain" like, "I expected more" accompanied by another throat grab, (again... throat grabs mean nothing anymore) Thor hits her with a big lighting blast aaaaaand fights over....

WandaVision: Not a movie but it's got the budget of one. Final battle had Wanda and Agatha shooting sparkles at each other and flying in circles in the air suuuuper slow... the Vision vs Vision fight was much better and more interesting. Not that I've really found Wanda's battles to be particularly interesting anyway, she has cool moments sure, but her fights are usually so one-sided and quick or it's just her throwing stuff around.

Wonder Woman: The Ares fight, I don't particularly dislike this fight as much as the others, but yeah, it was more boring than the Cheetah fight. Ares says typical villain things (I'm so glad Cheetah barley talked), throws some rocks at her, grabs her throat (omgggg movies gotta stop with this) WW using the lasso like a ribbon wand was cool though. Fight had too many dull moments though.

Justice League: (Either one): For reasons already stated a million times. Superman shows up and that's it, he decimates Steppenwolf, it wasn't even a fight and embarrasses the League in the process.

Fant4stic...That's it. That's all I'm gonna say. Worst final battle of any superhero movie.

I'm not going to go through every superhero movie but those are the ones I can think off of the top of my head.

Edit: Oh and I guess my most controversial one is the Superman vs Zod fight. Because the focus of that fight was the distruction it was causing, not Superman or Zod. (And for anyone who thinks that's not the case then why is it the destruction the opening of BvS. You don't even see Superman or Zod in the opening.) Plus it goes on for too long and the second half has the most awkward camera work I have ever seen in a battle, like the zooming into Zods eye as he spins Superman around by the cap. What is this camera work?!

I can only agree with you on the Fantastic 4 one. The others may fall to WW84 dismal level, but do not surpass it.

[DABellWrites]

Hmmm, I think in the beginning that might have been his intent with Von Gunther, since she was WW first reoccurring villain and was a nazi during the heavy focused WWII era.

But, I think Cheetah was created to be a more long-lasting villain, someone whose motives had no tie to the war.

I don't think she was at all. Since a theme of Wonder Woman is reformation, I believe the Cheetah was meant to be the villain that Diana struggled to change the most. So yeah, think about it, the Cheetah really is Diana's main adversary.

[Fuzzy Mittens]

Wouldn't Eviless be Diana's archenemy in thr Marston era since she's the one that formed Villany Inc? Cheetah was following Eviless' instructions

Eh, while Eviless was a big threat, she was only a menace because she was relying on other, better villains. Sure she formed Villainy inc, but the team was disbanded halfway through their first scheme with half of its members looting the treasury and making a run for it.
I honestly think it was meant to be either Baroness Paula Von Gunther, or Ares who was treated as a much bigger deal in the golden age than any other villain.

Regardless yeah, Cheetahs wasn't really Wonder Womans archenemy. Id argue that one could call her a dark counterpart as this original Cheetah was empowered by her sense of inferiority and inability to believe in herself (The opposite of Wonder Woman) but biggest menace...Well she didn't appear near as often as Ares, Baroness, Doctor Psycho or even Queen Clea

[Alpha]

Eh, while Eviless was a big threat, she was only a menace because she was relying on other, better villains. Sure she formed Villainy inc, but the team was disbanded halfway through their first scheme with half of its members looting the treasury and making a run for it.

Man I love Marston era high jinks. In the middle of the story the holliday girls get dressed like gorillas for no reason whatsoever.

Anyway, Paul really can't be the right answer since she spent so much time reformed and the last story Marston wrote (incidentally the debut of Villainy Inc) has Paula freed from the venus girdle but proving that she is reformed by helping out the amazons and being dominant but not cruel.

[Rightoya]

Birds of Prey had bad action direction? Did I watch the same movie as other people? The set pieces were pretty good overall. They didn't blow my mind but goddamn. The police precinct raid was fun!

Using examples that aren't the first Wonder Woman, which action film has scenes they'd like to see similarly in Wonder Woman? It's easy to say "that's bad action" but I'd like to know what detractors think would be more deserving of Diana.

If any of you mention Metropolis in Man of Steel you automatically go to your rooms without supper.

For Cheetah as the speedster she should have been, Fox had some neat speed scenes with Quicksilver, they would just need to be more serious:

If you can't point to any story where Cheetah was as much of a powerhouse as you want her to be, than she just isn't a powerhouse. You are overhyping a charater and then complaining about others writing her the way she has always been written.

Your reasoning makes no sense again, if Cheetah has always been weak, she either needs a new direction or can not have a position as a potential arch-enemy of Wonder Woman. All you are saying is that Cheetah as a threat to Wonder Woman was always just poor writing or in more specific plot armor, and if that were true, we should urgently open a thread about the seemingly all-around problem Cheetah.

[Agent Z]

Wouldn't Eviless be Diana's archenemy in thr Marston era since she's the one that formed Villany Inc?

Not exactly. That would be like saying Dr Octopus is Spider-Man's archenemy because he formed the original sinister six. Creating a supervillain team alone does not an archenemy make.

[Robanker]

Are you talking about the shockwave effect with the bracers?
Attachment 112100

For what it's worth, I don't think this really was intended as a power. Her bracers are nearly indestructible and she's hitting them very hard at super speed to create a sonic boom.

Rather than be a power, it was her using her tools cleverly.

Right now it's become a full on power, though, which I enjoy less. I thought it was cooler that she was creative with what she had instead of just another power in her suite.

Not exactly. That would be like saying Dr Octopus is Spider-Man's archenemy because he formed the original sinister six. Creating a supervillain team alone does not an archenemy make.

Good pull, that would definitely highlight her speed well. Anyone who wants to say Quicksilver's scenes are specifically Flash scenes don't realize how stupid fast Flash is portrayed as being, so I don't want to hear that criticism.

[Alpha]

Not exactly. That would be like saying Dr Octopus is Spider-Man's archenemy because he formed the original sinister six. Creating a supervillain team alone does not an archenemy make.

I mean, Doc Ock has at times been Spider-man's main enemy. Conceptually, I don't think there's anything about Green Goblin that makes him Spider-man's archenemy, it's just that since he killed Gwen Stacy most writers seemed to choose him as the one with the most personal vendetta.

[Agent Z]

For what it's worth, I don't think this really was intended as a power. Her bracers are nearly indestructible and she's hitting them very hard at super speed to create a sonic boom.

Rather than be a power, it was her using her tools cleverly.

Right now it's become a full on power, though, which I enjoy less. I thought it was cooler that she was creative with what she had instead of just another power in her suite.



Good pull, that would definitely highlight her speed well. Anyone who wants to say Quicksilver's scenes are specifically Flash scenes don't realize how stupid fast Flash is portrayed as being, so I don't want to hear that criticism.

I think you quoted the wrong post.