The Meh Men (And Women) - Open Nominations

[ducklord]

While we round out the voting on the Hated 8 (8 DC Super-Heroes that almost no one likes - Now In Team Form!), I thought it would be fun to start creating a team of "meh" heroes. What makes a hero eligible for "meh" status, you may ask?

1. They have to be a hero. No villains.
2. They have to have been around for a while. Lots of appearances.
3. For whatever reason, they don't really seem to have ever had a great story written about them. Or even any particularly good ones.
4. They're not hated (at least not universally), and may even be well-liked (more or less), but they're just sort of... there.
5. They've never really had a moment of awesome (death scenes don't count... if your death scene isn't awesome, it's possible that you suck).

In short, the Meh Men will be a team of heroes that, for whatever reason, have never really shined, despite years (and sometimes decades) of opportunities.

I'll pitch a few nominees:

Al Pratt, the Golden Age Atom
Founding member of the JSA. Three different legacy heroes. Been around forever. But really, has poor Al Pratt ever been cool? He didn't get invited to the JSA revival in the 70's, and when they decided to let Extant kill off a few JSAers during Zero Hour, there he was at the top of the list. He had one possible moment of glory, taking a spear meant for FDR, but even that raised a lot of questions. Al deserves his long-deferred shot at awsomesauce.

Cassie Sandsmark, Wonder Gir
Cassie Sandsmark has been around for 25 years now, first as a poor man's Vanessa Kapatelis, then eventually as her generation's Wonder Girl. And although there's nothing wrong with her character, I'd be hard-pressed to think of any awesome moments for her (in the comics... the Young Justice cartoon is another thing altogether). Her identity is too often tied up with being the girlfriend of either Tim or Conner, and her squishy origins don't help. Frankly, she was at her best in her earliest PAD Young Justice days, but even then she was primarily an adjunct to the three main male characters. She desperately needs to break free of those guys and forge her own identity in a team that won't overshadow her.

Sun Boy
The Legion of Super-Heroes has a, um, legion of distinct characters with outsized personalities crafted to make them stand out. But poor Dirk never has seemed to get the TLC that other characters have gotten, despite the fact that he's been around forever. He's not hated enough by writers to be cast away (Tyroc) or killed (Karate Kid), but he's not loved enough to repeatedly focus on (Ultra Boy). He's just there, with his loosely defined character traits (womanizing narcissist?) sort of hanging in the breeze the 5YL writers gave him a tragic extended death arc, but that was too little too late, I say. Until I looked it up, I was convinced that Bendis hadn't even included a Sun Boy in his reboot, 'cause I have no memory of him appearing. The poor guy needs a trip to the 21st century to hand with a team that won't eclipse him (see what I did there?)

Any other nominees?

[Korath]

Garth - Aqualad I - Tempest

I guess he's kind of here... and that's it. He's clearly eclipsed by Jackson Hyde now, and he doesn't have anything awesome to his belt, some kind of super story you have to read about him. He isn't bad, I'm fine with him... but just like the rest of the Fab Five save Dick Grayson... he doesn't have much to offer for me. But I'll only nominate him, it'd be too easy to nominate the others.

Tim Drake

The Perfect Robin. And because of it, once the novelty has wiorn off... he has never managed to be anything else for himself without pilfering other characters backstories (either from TT heritage or Batman) and I really don't find him all that interesting. Again, he's here and his biggest books are really bad in my eyes (the worst being Young Justice original series). And yes, I know he has a sizeable fanbase. But so does Ash Ketchum, it doesn't make either the best characters ever - and at east with Ash I have some nostalgia to fall back on.

Captain Atom

He goes boom, but DC clearly doesn't know what they want him to be - and neither do I.

[ducklord]

Garth - Aqualad I - Tempest

I guess he's kind of here... and that's it. He's clearly eclipsed by Jackson Hyde now, and he doesn't have anything awesome to his belt, some kind of super story you have to read about him. He isn't bad, I'm fine with him... but just like the rest of the Fab Five save Dick Grayson... he doesn't have much to offer for me. But I'll only nominate him, it'd be too easy to nominate the others.

Tim Drake

The Perfect Robin. And because of it, once the novelty has wiorn off... he has never managed to be anything else for himself without pilfering other characters backstories (either from TT heritage or Batman) and I really don't find him all that interesting. Again, he's here and his biggest books are really bad in my eyes (the worst being Young Justice original series). And yes, I know he has a sizeable fanbase. But so does Ash Ketchum, it doesn't make either the best characters ever - and at east with Ash I have some nostalgia to fall back on.

Captain Atom

He goes boom, but DC clearly doesn't know what they want him to be - and neither do I.

Garth is definitely one for the list. He's been around for 60 years, has a lot of fans, but he's never really gotten any awesome moments, despite numerous little attempts by DC to make him more interesting. He even got his own mini-series! But yeah, he's just a character in perpetual need of... something. The other members of the Fab 5 have, at various times, gotten their own moments in the sun (even Donna), but Garth just sits there, waiting for a great writer to do him justice.

Tim Drake. I dunno. I'll cop to the fact that he's been floundering for over a decade, but his original introduction and series was solid. He may be heading for Mehville, but I'm not sure the case can be made that he's always been meh. Thoughts from the peanut gallery?

Captain Atom... again, the fact that DC hasn't known what to do with him ever since they decided NOT to make him Monarch doesn't mean that he was always meh. Whether in his own damn cool series, as the straight man in the JLI, or as the heavy hand of the US Government, Cap has had plenty of viable and interesting takes over the years, in my opinion. But yeah, the whole "I blow up, that's my schtick" thing... that's a bad rut.

We need more guys 'n' gals like Garth, who've NEVER shined. It's a tricky group to assemble, 'cause most characters, if they've managed to stick around for umpteen years, have usually fallen into a good writing hands once or twice, even by accident.

Ooh, I'll throw one out there: Steel. Not John Henry Irons, but ANY of the Heywoods. Commander Steel was created over 40 years ago, has been kicking around in some form or another for 40+ years, is generally tolerated... but has never had a great story written about him.

[John Venus]

Since Garth has already been mentioned, I'll go with Johnny Thunder. There is a reason why Black Canary replaced him in his own feature and eventually took his JSA spot. Carmine Infantino even called the character a loser, I mean, 'ouch' but he had a point. I can't think of anything interesting being done with him either in his original stories or in any of the attempts to revive him. Plus, the whole genie thing seems like a headache to write. Like, how do you make the genie useful in a fight especially when you have guys like Dr Fate who is already a cooler, more powerful magical hero in their own right.

[Gaius]

Think I'll have to go with Giovanni Zatara. Nothing really wrong with him just his daughter is a more interesting character and I think besides dying or disappearing the most notable thing one can say about him is he debuted in the same issue as Superman.

[ducklord]

Since Garth has already been mentioned, I'll go with Johnny Thunder. There is a reason why Black Canary replaced him in his own feature and eventually took his JSA spot. Carmine Infantino even called the character a loser, I mean, 'ouch' but he had a point. I can't think of anything interesting being done with him either in his original stories or in any of the attempts to revive him. Plus, the whole genie thing seems like a headache to write. Like, how do you make the genie useful in a fight especially when you have guys like Dr Fate who is already a cooler, more powerful magical hero in their own right.

Difficulty of writing aside, Johnny's an interesting case.

As a character, Thunder stands out amongst his peers. He doesn't wear a costume, he's noticeably sillier and more foolish, and he generally lacks all of the pulp-y trappings that make up the rest of the founding members of the JSA. He's a comic relief character. But he's forever attached to the Thunderbolt (literally, these days), which has, over the years, allowed him to, off-and-on, be the focus of some reasonably cool moments/stories. JLA-JSA crossover with the evil Earth-1 Johnny. The Ultra-Humanite JLA/JSA crossover. The Ultra-Humanite saga in Johns's JSA. Even in Doomsday Clock, the 100+ year-old Thunder was someone to be reckoned with... 'cause he's got a genie. When Johnny Thunder's around, you really can't take your eyes off him, 'cause something weird's gonna happen.

Is he the greatest character in the world? Probably not. Years of plot-enforced stupidity have, at times, made him look like a character that never learns anything (a trait played up to good effect by Robinson in The Golden Age). Still, I'd hesitate before going all in and designating Johnny a 'meh.' He's had some good innings.

You know who might be closer to meh? The original Dr. Mid-Nite. I'm not keen on lumping two original JSAers into this group, but man ol' McNider has almost never been given a good look.

[ducklord]

Think I'll have to go with Giovanni Zatara. Nothing really wrong with him just his daughter is a more interesting character and I think besides dying or disappearing the most notable thing one can say about him is he debuted in the same issue as Superman.

Now THAT'S an interesting pick. Zatara has definitely been better written since he died then he ever was while he was alive (it's amazing what an iconic Alan Moore death will do for you). But yeah, this one might be a keeper.

[Alpha]

I'll just leave it at this, this thread is a bad idea, and Cassie Sandsmark has never been bad. Maybe you just don't like normal teenage girls.

[Thor-Ul]

I was thinking of Halo from the Outsiders. She has not a great story and with the background she should had more impact. Also, she always has used the worse costumes.
Now, I think several of the outsiders also fall in the "meh" category, except Black Lightning, Katana and Metamorpho.

[Aahz]

Tim Drake. I dunno. I'll cop to the fact that he's been floundering for over a decade, but his original introduction and series was solid. He may be heading for Mehville, but I'm not sure the case can be made that he's always been meh. Thoughts from the peanut gallery?

I think you would have to go with Luke Fox over Tim Drake. He doesn't really even have an interesting motivation for being a superhero.

[Korath]

Bette Kane

I mean... she's the original Bat-Girl. Does it has ever served her ? Nope. She's supposedly, according to wiki, a counterpart of Nightwing since she went by Flamebird for a time... and it didn't make a splatch in comic world apparently. She's here since 50 years that year being created in 1931 by Bill Finger and Sheldon Moldoff... and just like Garth, she hasn't had a memorable moment yet I think. Or at least one that sticks.

[M L A]

^^ Luke Fox would be a good one. The most he really has going for him was taking the Batwing mantle from David so the identity would have a reason to be in Gotham 24/7 and get tied into crossovers. And second after that would be teased with Babs for like two seconds during the Burnside era. And now his brother is getting a bigger push than he ever did. But unlike Harper and Duke he didn't really get a hatedom since people (including DC) just kinda forgot he was there.

Hmm, Hector Hall comes to mind, kinda.
Never really known anybody who considers him their favorite Dr Fate, but not usually the least fav usually because Jared exists and the JSA book he was in was good. Jade, Obsidian, Lyta, Helena, and sometimes Al (and now the Stargirl crew) seem to take up DC writers' Infinity Inc/old Earth 2 attention, and even fans seem to like the ones I just stated more and Hector seems to be more Lyta's +1 in a lot of fans' eyes. Lyta understandably gets all the Sandman attention of the two and the less said about Sandman Hector the better. And due to the nature of the Sandman continuity stuff Hector is never in or referenced in any Hawk stuff anymore.

[Raz]

Bette Kane

I mean... she's the original Bat-Girl. Does it has ever served her ? Nope. She's supposedly, according to wiki, a counterpart of Nightwing since she went by Flamebird for a time... and it didn't make a splatch in comic world apparently. She's here since 50 years that year being created in 1931 by Bill Finger and Sheldon Moldoff... and just like Garth, she hasn't had a memorable moment yet I think. Or at least one that sticks.

I feel bad for Bette....I always thought she had the potential to be a really fun character and this is a cool visual (for the 80s), but nothing of substance was ever done with her when it would have mattered and I can't see her thriving in her current form when there are other perky teenage girls/young women who are way more well-known than her now. She's perfect fodder for some hack writer to either kill her off in a big event book or have her do the 'bitter ex-sidekick turns bad' thing. Then again, Young Justice made Sportsmaster cool so never say never I guess

85628115aa1f64a2b8cbca9ac86712eb--custom-action-figures-young-justice.jpg

[John Venus]

Difficulty of writing aside, Johnny's an interesting case.

As a character, Thunder stands out amongst his peers. He doesn't wear a costume, he's noticeably sillier and more foolish, and he generally lacks all of the pulp-y trappings that make up the rest of the founding members of the JSA. He's a comic relief character. But he's forever attached to the Thunderbolt (literally, these days), which has, over the years, allowed him to, off-and-on, be the focus of some reasonably cool moments/stories. JLA-JSA crossover with the evil Earth-1 Johnny. The Ultra-Humanite JLA/JSA crossover. The Ultra-Humanite saga in Johns's JSA. Even in Doomsday Clock, the 100+ year-old Thunder was someone to be reckoned with... 'cause he's got a genie. When Johnny Thunder's around, you really can't take your eyes off him, 'cause something weird's gonna happen.

Is he the greatest character in the world? Probably not. Years of plot-enforced stupidity have, at times, made him look like a character that never learns anything (a trait played up to good effect by Robinson in The Golden Age). Still, I'd hesitate before going all in and designating Johnny a 'meh.' He's had some good innings.

You know who might be closer to meh? The original Dr. Mid-Nite. I'm not keen on lumping two original JSAers into this group, but man ol' McNider has almost never been given a good look.

I think he might work as a solo character or maybe if he was paired with a different hero. Maybe like Prez he needs to exist in his own world or maybe his powers need to redefined.

I would also like to add Kid Eternity. He has a cool name and a unique gimmick but I don't think anyone has managed to make it work.

I don't think the Dr Mid-Nite brand is getting meh anytime soon. The idea of a doctor turned superhero who is also blind is a unique enough concept which DC hasn't really capitalized on.

Hmm, Hector Hall comes to mind, kinda.
Never really known anybody who considers him their favorite Dr Fate, but not usually the least fav usually because Jared exists and the JSA book he was in was good. Jade, Obsidian, Lyta, Helena, and sometimes Al (and now the Stargirl crew) seem to take up DC writers' Infinity Inc/old Earth 2 attention, and even fans seem to like the ones I just stated more and Hector seems to be more Lyta's +1 in a lot of fans' eyes. Lyta understandably gets all the Sandman attention of the two and the less said about Sandman Hector the better. And due to the nature of the Sandman continuity stuff Hector is never in or referenced in any Hawk stuff anymore.

I like Hector and Lyta but the number of fans I've met of them can be counted on one hand.

Lyta is one of those characters I wish DC had dusted off after the success of the first WW film. Imagine the number of people who would have paid to read a YA novel about the daughter of WW and Steve Trevor.

Hector was my Dr Fate. The first one I saw was Kent Nelson in Superman: TAS and JLU but Hector was the first time I sympathized with the man behind the helmet. If I had to pitch a TK style mini series to DC it would be one focused on Hector Hall. I think there is a lot of potential in 'son of Hawkman & Hawkgirl who was born different because of his parents being in a reincarnation cycle and became Dr Fate'. Normally, you would expect a legacy hero to take on an identity similar to their parents or mentors but Hector taking on the identity of an entirely different superhero makes him unique, imo.

Currently they are trying to push Khalid Nassour as the direct successor to Kent Nelson and skipping over all the other Dr Fates but I don't find anything really interesting about Khalid. He seems to be your typical ordinary kid who lucked into super powers and that's...just not Dr Fate. He's supposed to eerie. Look at Kent Nelson especially in the Dr Fate mini by Martin Pasko and Walt Simonson; he was just a child when his father was accidentally killed by Nabu who then proceeds to raise him as his own. He looks like your typical superhero but then you slowly realize that there is something off about him. I think Eric and Linda and even Hector had those qualities but Khalid doesn't.

[Aahz]

I don't think the Dr Mid-Nite brand is getting meh anytime soon. The idea of a doctor turned superhero who is also blind is a unique enough concept which DC hasn't really capitalized on.

The most meh original JSA Character is probably Mr. Terrific (the Terry Sloan Version).