Is the Marvel Age Of Movies Done?

[green_garnish]

Which guys lips were moving? This shouldn’t be that hard.

You're correct about that. It's clear who's lips were moving. Jeez this is not something I thought there was a debate about.

[80sbaby]

Oookay, if you're going to ignore stuff than I have nothing more to say.

You're ignoring what we actually see and hear in the movie lol

[Coal Tiger]

You're correct about that. It's clear who's lips were moving. Jeez this is not something I thought there was a debate about.

There shouldn’t be, but there you are insisting on being wrong again.

[Castle]

What???!

Nirvana is arguably the single biggest influence on modern rock. Seriously, rock pretty much changed..forever after Nirvana (and Pearl Jam) dragged grunge into the mainstream.

Nevermind is in the Library of Congress for being culturally significant. It's often cited as one of the greatest albums ever...of any genre. In modern times, I can't think of a more influential work and I'm not even exaggerating. I'm old enough to remember how the music landscape change right in front of us when Nevermind was released, it was insane.

The only argument against them is they had a very limited discography but their impact on modern music is colossal and it certainly far,far,far more than Def Leppard.

To give it a short speech because this is not a thread to really discuss Nirvana in great depth, you missed my comment of when I said if Kurt had lived, his music would have evolved like any art is supposed to, maybe unlike marvel because they cannot really evolve from their ''kids friendly spin'' angle. also you are getting a wrong misconception from me that because I said something appealed to teens. it means it is bad. not it isn't. lol.

Nirvana were a cool band, but they were still new to the scene and they had many miles to go before they could be considered among the all time greats. Nirvana is to music, the equivalent of what James Dean was to movies and as I said on the James Dean thread, I do see him as an icon as I do Nirvana, but not necessary a big enough legend, that he should be ranked higher than the likes of William Holden and Sidney Poitier

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...es-Dean-impact

Whether the age of Marvel movies is done depends on what the heck they have planned. I don't know what they're planning to build to now. But I think they need some goal to build towards or risk fizzling out.

You mean a new goal because their MCU connected formula spin they use all the time, is not going to really mean anything to their Blade and X-Men or F4 movies, since these IPs work better as stand alone series. They really should take a cue from DC and get more confident in making not connected movies. it will be laughable for disney to assume constantly name dropping Avengers in an X-MEN or Blade film is somehow going to automatically make the those film high comic book movie art.

However it seems they now want to go the multiverse spin, which is will even be a weaker attempt at the formula of their it's all connected sell card, and what this will also lead to is someone trying to get the likes of Hugh Jackman, Wesley Snipes, Patrick Stewart, Ian Mckellen all to return.

However the sad reality is that MCU cannot actually make any of those movies these actors once stared in, like Blade 2, X2 or Logan since these films did not really do the kid friendly spin as much as mcu does it , not to mention, their directors actually directed the films. So me-thinks, their one goal of trying to link everything, even to the point they have already dragged some Sony and Fox marvel characters in like Evan Peters , Tobey Maguire, Andrew Garfield and Alfred Molina is in your words, still all will fizzle out.

Don't drag these folks in, if you cannot replicate or further what made their own movies successful in the first place.

[Noodle]

To give it a short speech because this is not a thread to really discuss Nirvana in great depth, you missed my comment of when I said if Kurt had lived, his music would have evolved like any art is supposed to, maybe unlike marvel because they cannot really evolve from their ''kids friendly spin'' angle. also you are getting a wrong misconception from me that because I said something appealed to teens. it means it is bad. not it isn't. lol.

Nirvana were a cool band, but they were still new to the scene and they had many miles to go before they could be considered among the all time greats. Nirvana is to music, the equivalent of what James Dean was to movies and as I said on the James Dean thread, I do see him as an icon as I do Nirvana, but not necessary a big enough legend, that he should be ranked higher than the likes of William Holden and Sidney Poitier

So one again you're formulating your opinion as fact.

Numerous bands have cited Nirvana as an influence on them. Nevermind was listed as number 6 on Rolling Stone's top 500 albums of all time last year. They helped popularize an entire genre of music. They were incredibly influential.

[thwhtGuardian]

You're correct about that. It's clear who's lips were moving. Jeez this is not something I thought there was a debate about.

...It wasn't Thanos talking in that clip...that's not something that can even be debated, it's literally right there.

[Kirby101]

Really ridiculous to say that because a band or artist is short lived they aren't influential. Buddy Holly comes to mind. I am sure we can come up with many others.

[Rincewind]

You're correct about that. It's clear who's lips were moving. Jeez this is not something I thought there was a debate about.

The only one debating this is you. Thanos did not speak until Guardians of the Galaxy. The post credit scene in Avengers only has The Other speaking, then Thanos gives a smile. That's it.

[Kirby101]

IIRC Brolin had not yet been cast in Avengers 1. So they did not have Thanos speak until GOTG.

[DrNewGod]

...it's funny how revisionist history works. The MCU didn't start out with sure-fire, beloved characters. They built them up over time, which is exactly what they can (and likely will) do now. The idea that the MCU "needs" Ironman or Steve to succeed is crazy since they made the audience fall in love with them to begin with. It doesn't matter how unknown Shang-chi is to the general public. They aren't like comic fans and are used to discovering new heroes to connect with. The vast majority of beloved movie franchises started with completely unknown characters.

This is a fair point. Feige, et al. started out with what amounted to Marvel's Third String of IP, and blew past what had been done before with the First and Second teams. However, I would suggest the comment could use some nuance in that the build was pretty fast. Each of those Phase One films (except the Hulk offerings) caught imaginations and energized both the fan and general audiences. Films like Shang-Chi may take some more building (let's face it, as comics IP go Shang-Chi is Fourth String, at best), but Marvel Studios now has a much more powerful brand than it did when releasing Iron Man. Enough that an audience is more likely to go along than they would have been had Marvel tried leading with somebody of Shang-Chi's stature back in 2008.

[Cyke]

Brolin fixed up his delivery for Infinity War, but the thing that bugged me about his depiction in GoTG was Brolin sounded a little like a threatening cowboy in an old California Western. He sounded too casual for me to take as seriously. But his speech is a bit sharper in later depictions.

"I will BATHE the STAHRWAYS in your BLUD."

[Username taken]

Regarding the Black Widow performance, folks need to calm down.

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/black-wido...200010369.html

The article just basically makes a lot of points that we made earlier. The pandemic isn't over and we need to stop acting like it is.

I know that the cinema owners are hurt by the day and date release of BW (i fully understand their rage and pain) but Disney need to recoup the cost of making the movie.

Just under half the US is vaccinated and with the delta variant spiking cases again, I don't forsee people rushing back to theatres to risk their lives for the movies.

All things considered, Black Widow did as well as it could given these circumstances which are extremely unusual.

[chicago_bastard]

Regarding the Black Widow performance, folks need to calm down.

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/black-wido...200010369.html

The article just basically makes a lot of points that we made earlier. The pandemic isn't over and we need to stop acting like it is.

I know that the cinema owners are hurt by the day and date release of BW (i fully understand their rage and pain) but Disney need to recoup the cost of making the movie.

Just under half the US is vaccinated and with the delta variant spiking cases again, I don't forsee people rushing back to theatres to risk their lives for the movies.

All things considered, Black Widow did as well as it could given these circumstances which are extremely unusual.

They may raise correct points but they come to the wrong conclusion. They bring up movies like Old and Snake Eyes and point to them underperforming when those are movies nobody expected to be a big success anyway. Why not look at movies that are more comparable to BW and how they do in the same environment? If A Quiet Place 2 can make 160 million domestically (for reference: the first one made 188 million in non-pandemic times) in this environment, then an MCU movie should clearly top 200 million domestic. If Godzilla vs Kong can make 365 million at the international box office (for reference: Godzilla: KoM made only 276 million (!) internationally in pre-pandemic times), then an MCU movie should clearly be able to make more. If F9 with atrocious reviews and bad word of mouth can sail past 620 million worldwide (for reference: Hobbs and Shaw made 759 million in non-pandemic times) in this environment, then an MCU movie with positive reviews should easily top that mark.

Despite being #1 in all polls for the most anticipated movie of the summer BW likely won't reach any of these goals and that is primarily due to the day and date streaming release. With an exclusive theatrical play I believe we would be looking at 230 million+ domestic and 700 million+ worldwide at the end of its run. If Godzilla vs Kong, AQP 2 and F9 can make numbers that are not too far (or in one case even better) from their direct predecessors' pre-pandemic results then there is no reason why BW should do much worse than comparable MCU movies like say Doctor Strange or CA:TWS.

So Disney would have recouped the cost of the movie better with an exclusive theatrical window, I'm pretty sure that by now Chapek knows that, too.

I agree that BW did well under the circumstances, but it could have done better without the day and date release. Putting it on premium Disney+ after a 45 day window like they'll do with Shang-Chi would have been the better option. They would still get the money of those people who don't want to leave their home, only a bit later. But the movie would have had better legs because of repeated viewings from the hardcore fans who now purchased the movie for 30 dollars on Disney+ (likely less as everybody shares his account nowadays) and watched it as many times as they want withot paying again. These repeated viewings are crucial for MCU movies in subsequent weeks. Not to speak of the China disaster that comes with the day and date release.

Edit: Maybe this discussion would fit better into one of the box office threads as I don't think OP was thinking about BW's performance when he opened this thread.

[Username taken]

They may raise correct points but they come to the wrong conclusion. They bring up movies like Old and Snake Eyes and point to them underperforming when those are movies nobody expected to be a big success anyway. Why not look at movies that are more comparable to BW and how they do in the same environment? If A Quiet Place 2 can make 160 million domestically (for reference: the first one made 188 million in non-pandemic times) in this environment, then an MCU movie should clearly top 200 million domestic. If Godzilla vs Kong can make 365 million at the international box office (for reference: Godzilla: KoM made only 276 million (!) internationally in pre-pandemic times), then an MCU movie should clearly be able to make more. If F9 with atrocious reviews and bad word of mouth can sail past 620 million worldwide (for reference: Hobbs and Shaw made 759 million in non-pandemic times) in this environment, then an MCU movie with positive reviews should easily top that mark.

Despite being #1 in all polls for the most anticipated movie of the summer BW likely won't reach any of these goals and that is primarily due to the day and date streaming release. With an exclusive theatrical play I believe we would be looking at 230 million+ domestic and 700 million+ worldwide at the end of its run. If Godzilla vs Kong, AQP 2 and F9 can make numbers that are not too far (or in one case even better) from their direct predecessors' pre-pandemic results then there is no reason why BW should do much worse than comparable MCU movies like say Doctor Strange or CA:TWS.

So Disney would have recouped the cost of the movie better with an exclusive theatrical window, I'm pretty sure that by now Chapek knows that, too.

I agree that BW did well under the circumstances, but it could have done better without the day and date release. Putting it on premium Disney+ after a 45 day window like they'll do with Shang-Chi would have been the better option. They would still get the money of those people who don't want to leave their home, only a bit later. But the movie would have had better legs because of repeated viewings from the hardcore fans who now purchased the movie for 30 dollars on Disney+ (likely less as everybody shares his account nowadays) and watched it as many times as they want withot paying again. These repeated viewings are crucial for MCU movies in subsequent weeks. Not to speak of the China disaster that comes with the day and date release.

Edit: Maybe this discussion would fit better into one of the box office threads as I don't think OP was thinking about BW's performance when he opened this thread.

BWs international performance hasn't been great but there are two major factors to consider.

1. It's not been released in China and doesn't even have a Chinese release date.

2. AQP 2 and FF didn't have day and date streaming. I do agree that GvK did have day and date release streaming and still did good but there's a good chance that BW might surpass it even without a China release (BW is already at $316 million WW).

I really do believe that BW would have surpassed the likes of Dr Strange and CA:TWS if not for the lack of China release, day and date streaming and pandemic fears. At least internationally.

[chicago_bastard]

BWs international performance hasn't been great but there are two major factors to consider.

1. It's not been released in China and doesn't even have a Chinese release date.

2. AQP 2 and FF didn't have day and date streaming. I do agree that GvK did have day and date release streaming and still did good but there's a good chance that BW might surpass it even without a China release (BW is already at $316 million WW).

I really do believe that BW would have surpassed the likes of Dr Strange and CA:TWS if not for the lack of China release, day and date streaming and pandemic fears. At least internationally.

1. Well, the big problem of the China release is also influenced heavily by the day and date release. BW's China box office will likely be hampered heavily by the day and date release as piracy is a big factor there and thanks to the Disney+ release every MCU fan in China can already watch an illegal copy of BW in high quality. Under normal circumstances 200 million from China would have been a reasonable expectation, we'll see how much it'll make in the end, I don't think it will come close to that number due to pirated copies already flooding the country.

The delay itself wouldn't be a big problem by the way. Infinity War's China release also happened some weeks after the US start but as IW wasn't released on Disney+ simultaneously there were no high quality copies of it already available prior to its China release so it didn't affect the box office result. So if the China result of BW disappoints one can clearly blame the Disney+ release.

2. The 365 million for Godzilla vs Kong is the international box office, not worldwide. So at the moment BW is roughly 200 million shy of it. Worldwide GvK stands at 465 million.

I used the international box office because GvK only had a day and date streaming release in the USA as HBO Max wasn't available in other countries at that point, thus GvK's international cume is not affected by a simultaneous streaming release, whereas Disney+ is available in many markets and hampering BW's international box office. What's also important: Warner was even smart enough to release GvK a couple days earlier in China than domestic so that pirated copies from HBO Max couldn't affect the opening weekend in China and it paid off.

I still can't believe how naive Disney approached the China release of BW. Everyone in the business knew months ago that China would put an embargo on foreign movies for July, yet Chapek obviously didn't see a problem in that, whereas Warner showed awareness of the piracy problem that comes with a day and date release and acted accordingly.