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  1. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by inisideguy View Post
    Castle I literally just talked about violence in an R movie. And you sent me a clip of saving private Ryan. Now why does a typical marvel movie need to have war violence like saving private Ryan. What purpose does that serve?
    A Captain America movie could have done a similar scene, Captain America has many world war 2 stories, which does make it have some similar things with saving private ryan,

    there is nothing in the source material that says it is not allowed. In fact now that you mention it. The Wolverine is a Marvel film and had a somewhat similar kind of violence that was still stripped down a bit to PG 13 but it did lay the grounds for Logan to move on to R Rating. Let me just post it here. Another World War 2 scene that does not really sugar coat the harshness of war even in a comic film that is in default way below a film like Saving Private Ryan.



    World War 2 and wars in general are violent, traumatising, bloody and scary and sad, they should shake us when we see them and give us an opportunity for us to see that the characters are experiencing at the most basic level of human emotion, that is the purpose they serve and the reasons movies that can push those grounds get more acclaim beyond just fun jokes and cgi 3rd action arc that cannot even get any convincing critical praise anymore now.

    Not to mention, there is a special appeal that attracts much older comic fans, some who are now even grand dads but read some of the comics in the 60s and 70s, that will appreciate this a lot compared to the many millennials comic fans who can be quite ignorant of superhero/comic books stories.
    Last edited by Castle; 09-09-2021 at 01:22 PM.

  2. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    A Captain America movie could have done a similar scene, Captain America has many world war 2 stories, which does make it have some similar things with saving private ryan,

    there is nothing in the source material that says it is not allowed. In fact now that you mention it. The Wolverine is a Marvel film and had a somewhat similar kind of violence that was still stripped down a bit to PG 13 but it did lay the grounds for Logan to move on to R Rating. Let me just post it here. Another World War 2 scene that does not really sugar coat the harshness of war even in a comic film that is in default way below a film like Saving Private Ryan.



    World War 2 and wars in general are violent, traumatising, bloody and scary and sad, they should shake us when we see them and give us an opportunity for us to see that the characters are epicene, that is the purpose they serve and the reasons movies that can push those grounds get more acclaim beyond just fun jokes and cgi 3rd action arc that can even get any convincing critical praise anymore now. Not to mention, there is a special appeal that attracts much older comic fans, some who are not even gran dads but read some of the comics in the 60s and 70s, that will appreciate this a lot compared to the many millennials comic fans who can be quite ignorant of comic book stories.
    Sure a Captain America movie could have had something similar. Would that have made it better? I mean say in Captain American the first avenger you would have had one of the howling commandos have his arm blown off and him carrying it around saying help me mom. You would have viewed that as a better movie?
    Last edited by inisideguy; 09-09-2021 at 01:21 PM.

  3. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by inisideguy View Post
    Sure a Captain America movie could have had something similar. Would that have made it better? I mean say in Captain American the first avenger you would have had one of the howling commandos have his arm blown off and him carrying it around saying help me mom. You would have viewed that as a better movie?
    I know this is in response to someone else, but no way would more violence make a movie better. Blood and gore are just filler material, same as prolonged sex scenes.
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  4. #424
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    Great idea, let's take beloved comics that have been for all ages for generations and turn them into gore fest horror porn. Yeah, it's not like making them for everyone has had any success.

    I am thinking of movies that do what this poster would want. John Wick comes to mind, very enjoyable hardcore action movies, full of violence and gore. Some would say they are over the top, cartoony movies, and they are, but in the best way.

    But does this make them any better than the MCU movies? Not one bit. There is a place for all types of movies, and to say one set isn't as good as another because of the level of violence, gore or sex is simply inane.

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  5. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    I know this is in response to someone else, but no way would more violence make a movie better. Blood and gore are just filler material, same as prolonged sex scenes.

    I will say in War movies I think it works because it shows the horrors of war. I do think there are certain movies where the gore or violence works for a movie. I don't think any of the current marvel films would have benefited from any of this. If people just look at Marvel movies like Star Wars movies the basic premise for how they show violence is the same.
    Last edited by inisideguy; 09-09-2021 at 04:19 PM.

  6. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by inisideguy View Post
    I will say in War movies I think it works because it shows the horrors of war. I do think there are certain movies where the gore or violence works for a movie. I don't think any of the current marvel films would have benefited from any of this. If people just look at Marvel movies like Star Wars movies the basic premise for how they show violence is the same.
    Yes, I agree. It depends on the focus of the movie and what the director is trying to accomplish. A war movie that is trying to show just how horrible is an example where extreme violence might be appropriate. However I would argue that no movie is ever going to truly capture just how horrific war really can be. Its not gore that the issue for most soldiers, I would think, though that weighs in. Rather its the sheer experience of being surrounded by war. The PTSD of never knowing where the bullet is coming from and not knowing day to day if you will still have your life, your health or your comrades around with you. Big explosions in your ear. That kind of thing.

    For me, the best type of war movies don't focus on the violence but rather the psychological trauma. Thats really what war does to people.
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  7. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    I know this is in response to someone else, but no way would more violence make a movie better. Blood and gore are just filler material, same as prolonged sex scenes.
    Outside of actual porn, which modern movies have prolonged sex scenes? Most don't have sex scenes, and most of those that do have them super quick. Longest one I can think of from this century was in Watchmen. And even that I wouldn't say was quite long enough to call "prolonged".

  8. #428
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Great idea, let's take beloved comics that have been for all ages for generations and turn them into gore fest horror porn. Yeah, it's not like making them for everyone has had any success.

    I am thinking of movies that do what this poster would want. John Wick comes to mind, very enjoyable hardcore action movies, full of violence and gore. Some would say they are over the top, cartoony movies, and they are, but in the best way.

    But does this make them any better than the MCU movies? Not one bit. There is a place for all types of movies, and to say one set isn't as good as another because of the level of violence, gore or sex is simply inane.

    “The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars / But in ourselves"
    While I agree that R ratings don't make for better movies, that there is like you said a place for all types of movies, including superhero movies. However compared to pg13 superhero movies r rated superhero movies are very rare. And now that Disney/MCU has absorbed Fox and the X-Men back they'll become even more so. So yeah, it doesn't make movies better, but it's still kind of a shame that such a rare treat as R rated superheroics will become that more rare. There's still the DCEU taking R risks for now, but with the low BO of BoP and TSS I wouldn't be surprised to discover they're done with that rating too. And that'd literally leave just the small independent guys ala Kick-Ass, Super, and Defendor. Those 3 were over 11 years ago. After that it's just been Logan, Deadpool, Deadpool 2, Joker, Birds of Prey, and The Suicide Squad. Half that was Fox. Half the R rated films in the genre in the last decade are now off the table. So, R isn't an indicator of quality, but losing out on that diversity of ratings in the genre is kind of a shame.

  9. #429
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    Quote Originally Posted by inisideguy View Post
    Sure a Captain America movie could have had something similar. Would that have made it better? I mean say in Captain American the first avenger you would have had one of the howling commandos have his arm blown off and him carrying it around saying help me mom. You would have viewed that as a better movie?
    Not to mention that one guy that got shredded in the plane's propeller near the end.

  10. #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Outside of actual porn, which modern movies have prolonged sex scenes? Most don't have sex scenes, and most of those that do have them super quick. Longest one I can think of from this century was in Watchmen. And even that I wouldn't say was quite long enough to call "prolonged".
    THE ROOM (2003). An R rated movie that dealt with serious themes like love, friendship, betrayal. It”s a true example of an auteur movie. Tommy Wiseau wrote, produced, directed, and starred in the movie. It clearly shows the difference between studio run movies like the MCU and a true singular vision.

  11. #431
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    Yes, I agree. It depends on the focus of the movie and what the director is trying to accomplish. A war movie that is trying to show just how horrible is an example where extreme violence might be appropriate. However I would argue that no movie is ever going to truly capture just how horrific war really can be. Its not gore that the issue for most soldiers, I would think, though that weighs in. Rather its the sheer experience of being surrounded by war. The PTSD of never knowing where the bullet is coming from and not knowing day to day if you will still have your life, your health or your comrades around with you. Big explosions in your ear. That kind of thing.

    For me, the best type of war movies don't focus on the violence but rather the psychological trauma. Thats really what war does to people.
    That's the thing, it depends on what the focus of the movie is.

    Saving Private Ryan had those extreme scenes of gore and horror because Spielberg intended on making a profound statement with that particular scene (i.e the Normandy landing which is one of the most ifamous nvasions in history).
    Last edited by Username taken; 09-09-2021 at 05:18 PM.

  12. #432
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    Honestly, for me the entire "Marvel doesn't do R-rated movies criticism" is a non-starter of a discussion. Marvel has already said they will do an R-rated Deadpool.

    Beyond that, I am much more concerned about a movie's quality rather than its rating. Also, the rating of a movie must fit the tone of the character.

    A good chunk of R-rated superhero movies have been average to absolute garbage from Watchmen to The Punisher movies to the recent Hellboy. The second Deadpool was pretty average same with Birds of Prey despite them being rated-R. Beyond superhero movies, we saw the Aliens vs Predator sequel get an R-rating and it was dogshit, people also complained about Die Hard 4 being PG-13 but the R-rated fifth movie was absolute nonsense and far worse.

    I've watched enough movies across a variety of genres for a long enough time to say categorically that the rating of a movie doesn't improve a movie. The movie needs to be executed well regardless of its rating.

  13. #433
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    THE ROOM (2003). An R rated movie that dealt with serious themes like love, friendship, betrayal. It”s a true example of an auteur movie. Tommy Wiseau wrote, produced, directed, and starred in the movie. It clearly shows the difference between studio run movies like the MCU and a true singular vision.
    I was thinking more in the action blockbuster genre that most people would have seen or heard about. Kind of makes the prolonged sex scene as filler comparison to gore and action as filler feel like more of a stretch to me if an 18 year old auteur film has to be used as an example. I don't know, I think something needs to be more common to be called filler. Like, filler is used to pad out time, and most sex scenes are if anything not padded out enough often times. Kind of rushed through because you can't show too much for too long without rising a XXX rating. So sex scenes are typically very quick, and very quick can't be filler.

  14. #434
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    A good chunk of R-rated superhero movies have been average to absolute garbage from Watchmen to The Punisher movies to the recent Hellboy. The second Deadpool was pretty average same with Birds of Prey despite them being rated-R.
    The Punisher was actually pretty good (Warzone, eh, less so). I liked Watchmen, but like all Snyder comic films it is divisive. And honestly I thought Deadpool 2 was good (even if not as good as the first one) and Birds of Prey while not great was above average. Hellboy was forgettable though.

  15. #435
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    The Punisher was actually pretty good (Warzone, eh, less so). I liked Watchmen, but like all Snyder comic films it is divisive. And honestly I thought Deadpool 2 was good (even if not as good as the first one) and Birds of Prey while not great was above average. Hellboy was forgettable though.
    Funny enough, I'm the opposite with the Punisher movies. I actually hate the Tom Jane version the most and I enjoyed Warzone more than it. But none of them work for me at all.

    Watchmen was ok. It wasn't great but it was a "good attempt" given the complexity of the source material.

    Deadpool 2 wasn't bad but it was very average to me, a lot of the humor didn't land. I didn't like BoP at all, I had to force myself to finish watching the movie.

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