Cassandra Cain needs to be Batgirl more then the other “Batgirls”.

[Bat-Meal]

Everyone forgets that while Babs was the first Batgirl, she was the last one to have her own book.

You have to be careful with statements like that.

Hah, yeah, all things considered Cass is doing okay. Bette was tossed out to Limbo (no, not literally), and her only chance of coming back is probably if Kate starts getting used in more than cameos and the writers decide she needs a sidekick for the first time in years.

And since Bette barely ever gets used, but has 2 mantles that no one else is using - why not give one of her spare mantles to one of the other Batgirls. Come-up with a story reason to explain it, or not, and either of those names is way better than "Orphan".

[Lal]

Tim and Cass have remained pretty popular, all things considered. And it's not as if anyone was really clamoring for a Babs series.

Cass just needs commitment, and the entire line needs less damn crossovers every 6 months

Tim is very popular with people who grew up with him as their Robin, but I don't think many new readers really love him.
As for Cass, she was in Batman & Robin eternal, Tynion Tec run, and then Batman & the outsiders. she wasn't batgirl in any of them, but she wasn't sidelined or ignored.

Barbra is the face of the batgirl brand. She will be in the Gotham knights game, she'll get her own movie. And she's likely the only batgirl who is familiar to people who don't read comics.
It wouldn't make much sense if these media adaptations come out and Barbara won't be Batgirl in the comics.

As for Cass, I think that the main problem is that she needs an identity that isn't dependent on Steph. When they are together, they are the batgirls (and in most recent issues they are always together), but what is she when she's on her own? She needs a code name in the field that isn't just batgirl 2.

[WonderNight]

Hah, yeah, all things considered Cass is doing okay. Bette was tossed out to Limbo (no, not literally), and her only chance of coming back is probably if Kate starts getting used in more than cameos and the writers decide she needs a sidekick for the first time in years.

And since Bette barely ever gets used, but has 2 mantles that no one else is using - why not give one of her spare mantles to one of the other Batgirls. Come-up with a story reason to explain it, or not, and either of those names is way better than "Orphan".

So like Stephanie goes from spoiler to flamebird or something.

[KrustyKid]

Lots of people asked for and are asking for that including writers.

Someone just asked for that on the previous page of this very thread lmao.

Clutching onto nostalgia is the reason why Tim is currently suffering in his current Robin but only when Damian isn't in the room state.

he had a decent solo effort with rr [Batman-lite but decent] but that wasn't good enough for some.

True that. Guess the same could be said for Babs too, given she was put back in the Batgirl role for the New-52.

Regarding Tim's RR solo, I don't feel it wasn't 'good enough' for some. More like the New-52 just erased everything he was. And unlike all the other Robin's he only appeared in over crowded team books that didn't allow for any true development outside of team dynamics. Only Steph and Cass took it worse since they got completely Thanosed and omega beamed all in one blow.

As for the Batgirl situation, I'm cool with there being a 'Batgirls' squad, though induvisually having their own code-names; Spoiler, Black-Bat, Batgirl, etc. With that said I feel both Babs and Steph stand fine in their other monikers outside of Batgirl, it's Cass who hasn't gotten to that level when it comes to identity when not tagged to 'Batgirl'

[Agent Z]

Which does what exactly. The point is you guys are looking at what can the brand do for the character, but what it really comes down to is what does the character do for the brand. Its not like Cass isn't around, they even published a Festival of Heroes: The Asian Superhero book. What has that done. It covers them for PR points but the brand of Batgirl is too big a property to just be there for PR. Steph got the role because they saw a need for new Batgirl 10 years ago as the brand wasn't going anywhere with Cass anymore. 10 years later of them telling the same story with her hasn't really done anything to change that. Sacrificing the brands of Robin and Batgirl to characters that aren't going anywhere anymore, cause they "need" it, is flawed thinking. Its holds the brands back. At this point it would probably be more beneficial to try Tiffany Fox as Batgirl to supplement the Next Batman direction.

Good PR is something DC could use no small amount of at the moment.

[HunterX]

DISAGREE

Being Batgirl should be based on Merit, not pity points.

maybe that shows the lack of the Cass character, if she is in such a losing position without the Batgirl moniker.

The best characters are those who are compelling and have a strong identity in the costume and outside the costume. Which makes them the character that deserve the moniker and costume best.

[Aahz]

Tim is very popular with people who grew up with him as their Robin, but I don't think many new readers really love him.

Not surprising since he didn't really had his own book since flashpoint, and didn't really had the exposure in other media Dick, Jason and Damian had.

[Digifiend]

Which does what exactly. The point is you guys are looking at what can the brand do for the character, but what it really comes down to is what does the character do for the brand. Its not like Cass isn't around, they even published a Festival of Heroes: The Asian Superhero book. What has that done. It covers them for PR points but the brand of Batgirl is too big a property to just be there for PR. Steph got the role because they saw a need for new Batgirl 10 years ago as the brand wasn't going anywhere with Cass anymore. 10 years later of them telling the same story with her hasn't really done anything to change that. Sacrificing the brands of Robin and Batgirl to characters that aren't going anywhere anymore, cause they "need" it, is flawed thinking. Its holds the brands back. At this point it would probably be more beneficial to try Tiffany Fox as Batgirl to supplement the Next Batman direction.

I don't see why there can't be three or four Batgirls. There's four Flashes. Tiffany could be Jace's Batgirl while the other three work together with Bruce. Tiffany's already been a fourth Batgirl once - in Futures End.

Hah, yeah, all things considered Cass is doing okay. Bette was tossed out to Limbo (no, not literally), and her only chance of coming back is probably if Kate starts getting used in more than cameos and the writers decide she needs a sidekick for the first time in years.

And since Bette barely ever gets used, but has 2 mantles that no one else is using - why not give one of her spare mantles to one of the other Batgirls. Come-up with a story reason to explain it, or not, and either of those names is way better than "Orphan".

Flamebird and Hawkfire, right?

I can see Mary (Bette's Arrowverse counterpart, she uses her first name instead of a nickname based on her middle name like in the comics because of Alice's real name Beth Kane being too similar) ending up suiting up at some point, and she'd probably use one of those names. I would expect Bette to use that name going forward in the comics too, leaving the other one vacant.

[dietrich]

Not surprising since he didn't really had his own book since flashpoint, and didn't really had the exposure in other media Dick, Jason and Damian had.

Tim is in
2 arkham games
BTAS [syndicated around the globe]
The lego Batman and dc to video movie
the unlimted movies
The unlimted series the 1 season
5 animated movies
TtGo
YJ tv series for 2 seasons

Tim had his own book in the new 52 Batman beyond was a big focus in Dc's 2nd most read ongoing. Tec. Twice a month

Knock it off mate.

if a divisive character like Damian can become popular enough to warrant being brought back and made a mainstay before he had any outside media appearances

If Jason can rise so much in popularity with a shit low selling book and even less outside media appearances than all the other batboys then Tim's problem isn't about visibility

[Aahz]

Tim is in
2 arkham games
BTAS [syndicated around the globe]
The lego Batman and dc to video movie
the unlimted movies
The unlimted series the 1 season
5 animated movies
TtGo
YJ tv series for 2 seasons

The BTAS version is completely different from the comics version, and in non of the other movies, series and games he gets any amount of focus.

Jason had two direct to DVD Movies and was the main antagonist in Arkham Knight.

Damian had relativ promonet roles in about half a dozen of the "New 52 Movies".

Dick is one of the central characters in Young Justice and the Titans TV show.

Tim had his own book in the new 52 Batman beyond was a big focus in Dc's 2nd most read ongoing. Tec. Twice a month

The Batman beyond version was an alternate future version with not much resemblence to the normal version and in TEC he was "dead" for at least half of the run.
He hasn't had a solo book (or even a mini) since flashpoint.

[The Cool Thatguy]

DISAGREE

Being Batgirl should be based on Merit, not pity points.

maybe that shows the lack of the Cass character, if she is in such a losing position without the Batgirl moniker.

The best characters are those who are compelling and have a strong identity in the costume and outside the costume. Which makes them the character that deserve the moniker and costume best.

Of the three Batgirls, Cass easily has the most compelling origin, and has a strong identity outside of the costume as well. No contest.

[Lal]

Of the three Batgirls, Cass easily has the most compelling origin, and has a strong identity outside of the costume as well. No contest.

I'll start by admitting I haven't read Cass series yet (I did order it), but isn't her origin quite similar to Damian?
If I understand correctly, she was raised to be a human weapon, has an assassin mother, didn't have a normal childhood, the entire league connection - it feels quite similar to Damian.

Or did I get it wrong?

[The Cool Thatguy]

I'll start by admitting I haven't read Cass series yet (I did order it), but isn't her origin quite similar to Damian?
If I understand correctly, she was raised to be a human weapon, has an assassin mother, didn't have a normal childhood, the entire league connection - it feels quite similar to Damian.

Or did I get it wrong?

Somewhat.

She was raised as a weapon from birth to age eight, where she committed her first murder. Her ability to read body language allowed her to understand what she did, and she fled Cain.

Her motivation is to redeem herself from her first murder, and it has a nice tragic element as in many ways, it wasn't her fault.

Damien's backstory is just there to make him seem bad ass. Cass' is tragic, as she lost her childhood to extreme abuse, but never knew anything else.

[dietrich]

The BTAS version is completely different from the comics version, and in non of the other movies, series and games he gets any amount of focus.

Jason had two direct to DVD Movies and was the main antagonist in Arkham Knight.

Damian had relativ promonet roles in about half a dozen of the "New 52 Movies".

Dick is one of the central characters in Young Justice and the Titans TV show.


The Batman beyond version was an alternate future version with not much resemblence to the normal version and in TEC he was "dead" for at least half of the run.
He hasn't had a solo book (or even a mini) since flashpoint.

BTAS was still how a lot of Tim fans 1st got introduced to him so not being comic accurate means Jack [most of the bat boys fans and blogs are dedicated to fanon versions so not being comic accurate means nothing ]

The batman beyond movie had Tim in a lead role as did 2 Unlimited movies

Tim had a solo title as batman Beyond in the new 52. It being an alternatre version doesn't mean anything. It was still a title with Tim in the lead.

Tim was dead for at least half of Tec which relased twice a week and is read by more than 3 times the number that read any other DC ongoing besides batman's main title.

That means that Tim was visible to more fans than any other of the Batboys in their their on going.

Tim had a Solo during the new52 and in Rebirth he had an up grade going from around 20 -30k fans reading him to every 4 weeks to over 50k fans reading him every 2 weeks

No other bat boy had that kind of boost and this is before we get into wonder comics.

Enough of the BS Aahz

[dietrich]

Somewhat.

She was raised as a weapon from birth to age eight, where she committed her first murder. Her ability to read body language allowed her to understand what she did, and she fled Cain.

Her motivation is to redeem herself from her first murder, and it has a nice tragic element as in many ways, it wasn't her fault.

Damien's backstory is just there to make him seem bad ass. Cass' is tragic, as she lost her childhood to extreme abuse, but never knew anything else.

Damian's Backstory doesn't make him seem bad ass to me.

Both Cass and damian lost their childhoods to extreme abuse and never knew anything else. Heck all the bat kids had tragic childhood to varying degrees.
I don't get why some fans ignore canon regards some fans and embrace it with others.

I've noticed this trend amongst Cass fans. They claim Damian isn't a POC while complaining about how Dc mis treats Cass a person of colour.

Even after the Asian celebration anthology came out featuring both cass and damian, the biggest Cass blog denounced Damian claiming that DC has never portrayed him as a a poc


Don’t get me started on Damian’s ethnicity. Not once has DC celebrated Damian being Arab nor Asian. Not once during Asian American Month or Arab American month have they used Damian as a representation. And no retroactive retcon of Talia’s skin color is going to supersede that it just wasn’t Grant Morrison’s intention or focus.

https://hellyeahteensuperheroes.tumb...en-some-damian

A blatant lie.

and now you claim Damian's back story is just there to make him seem bad ass and that Cass' is tragic.


hypocrites who?

Here's hoping the Babs Batgirl movie makes bank and hoping Steph is done justice in Batwoman.

Stay pissed.