Black Widow *Spoilers*

[Castle]

And yet that deleted scene would've just been a gratuitous Easter egg that didn't really do anything for the movie (seen how it was removed and changed nothing), while the Red Guardian suit being in the film helped build the character and arguably contributed to the emotional resolution of his part in the story.



Translation; it's bad because you didn't want chocolate in your peanut butter. Okay then.

https://screenrant.com/black-widow-f...rdian-mistake/


Black Widow Continues MCU’s Worst Gag From Avengers: Endgame
Black Widow makes unnecessary fat jokes at the expense of Red Guardian, which means the MCU hasn't learned from the mistakes of Avengers: Endgame.

Also to add to this good article, the gag with the red guardian of been fat and squeezing to the costume, is actually a worse place for that gag than endgame because again, spy genre dont need that, even action comic book fantasy like Endgame dont need that either, although it is more negative in a film like Black Widow because of what the nature of what the film is meant to be.

Also I don't think you are using gratuitous in the right way as it pertains to that film. I really do hope MCU X-MEN leans more to what the wolverine did in terms costumes than what we see with Black Widow. X-MEN does not to sell toys that badly.

CSTowle

It wasn't supposed to be a spy film, it was supposed to be a Disney superhero movie. And since the success of Guardians of the Galaxy they've used the same template for most of their films, quip/fight/quip/fight/bit of drama to shake things up/quip/fight/music/dance/fight/fight/quip. I'm sick of it, but the box office doesn't lie in showing I'm squarely in the minority.

If you want a good spy story try "the Americans". It's what their life in Ohio reminded me of at first glance. Much better writing and acting for the most part, but more of a slow burn and no shots filmed for 3D falling out of a helicopter or cringe-worthy quips about superhero landings. If you want the Disney hero stuff you're going to have to take the good with the bad. In my opinion this was on the wrong side of that balance (more bad than good), but again seem to be in the minority.

The point of looking at it as a spy film is about giving it the benefit of the doubt and to be objective because some here argue against others that say all MCU movies are the same one the thing, which is something I mostly agree with but is open to logical counter arguments , reason I said we cannot have what is meant to be a spy film and have that costume gag and be taken seriously for a spy movie, especially about a trained assassin.

people do argue some marvel films are heist, political thrillers, action fantasy, space opera. now while there maybe be traces of this genre in those marvel films. they are are still Disney comic films that have one template of some of what you mentioned. The quiping, music, dance, action fight, unrealistic costumes, derivate story, so-so cinematography, CGI game style. all this factors are always present in every marvel film even if one may argue the genre of their films are different. Black Widow still has more in common with GOTG than Jason Borne in film making narrative, although I can understand some part of the spy genre argument for Black Widow compared to the argument that Ant Man movies are ''heist'' films.


Also thanks for highlighting ''The Americans''. I do know many good spy movies/tv/books.

[Castle]

Wasted Taskmaster, but an otherwise enjoyable film. Yelena was really good. Her busting Nats balls over her poses. That was good stuff.

Kind off liked Natasha's comeback, when she said..all those times I was posing, I was saving the world. Both girls did rub of eachother well.

[CTTT]

Well I really liked it and it has only grown on me since seeing it. The vest with pockets that shows up in Infinity War now has new meaning. And Pugh was great, as usual. I first saw her in Little Women and loved her in that movie. And honestly I really liked the subtext of freeing enslaved women. Also this seemed like a pretty good Bechdel Test movie.

As to the Post-Credits scene, it was ok but like with FaTWS I'm still not vibing with Madame Hydra/Valentina as a character. For me, she's been poorly introduced and we've seen nothing about her, zilch. So I don't care and probably never will because at this point I'm kinda pissed about her. Plus of all the movies, seems this one could have been a good opportunity to show a little background on her. But no! Its kind of souring my desire for anything in the next phase at this point.

Well, we don't know anything about Val yet so how could one feel connected to her character? We've only seen her twice. Give it time. I'm sure in future movies/shows we will see more with her character. I mean I didn't think much of Nick Fury when he showed up at the end of IM 1. But after more movies and where he showed up I liked him more. I'm assuming the same will be with Val. Plus Sam Jackson is in his 70s now. Can't play Nick forever. Unless he becomes an LMD.

[phonogram12]

Just cutting straight to the bullet points:

* That credits scene with all those young girls in those containers...did that ever leave an impression. Definitely territory that the MCU hasn't treaded upon before. My hats off to them for having the balls to do it. While I've read a bit about the Red Room from the comics, it never occurred to me how much like human trafficking it actually is.
* Florence Pugh - yeah, definitely the future of the MCU as far as I'm concerned.
* Taskmaster - an improvement from the comics as far as I'm concerned. Other than being a kick ass smart ass, there's literally nothing else to Taskmaster's 616 personality. It's not like they've actually ever attempted to give the character any depth in his 30+ year existence, so this was a step up.
* The concluding action set piece was the only thing that really bugged me. I have a few other little nitpicks, but honestly, I was sick of the whole "floating fortress falls from the sky" bit when it was done in Winter Soldier.

Other than that, though, solid movie.

[Immortal Weapon]

* Taskmaster - an improvement from the comics as far as I'm concerned. Other than being a kick ass smart ass, there's literally nothing else to Taskmaster's 616 personality. It's not like they've actually ever attempted to give the character any depth in his 30+ year existence, so this was a step up.

Excuse Me? You must not have not read a lot of comics with Taskmaster. The mini series from 10 years ago that give him an origin added depth to his character by giving him a wife and the fact he photographic memory makes him instant forget anything that isn't related to survival. Added a tragic element to his signature gimmick. He has an excellent bromance with the Eric O Grady version of Ant-Man.

[phonogram12]

Excuse Me? You must not have not read a lot of comics with Taskmaster. The mini series from 10 years ago that give him an origin added depth to his character by giving him a wife and the fact he photographic memory makes him instant forget anything that isn't related to survival. Added a tragic element to his signature gimmick. He has an excellent bromance with the Eric O Grady version of Ant-Man.

Obviously I missed that. I have his first few appearances, his last appearance in Captain America, and a few others here and there, but certainly none of those stories touched on anything even remotely like this. It's too bad these story elements weren't followed up more afterwards. Missed opportunity on Marvel editorial's part to get fans to care more about the character.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Excuse Me? You must not have not read a lot of comics with Taskmaster. The mini series from 10 years ago that give him an origin added depth to his character by giving him a wife and the fact he photographic memory makes him instant forget anything that isn't related to survival. Added a tragic element to his signature gimmick. He has an excellent bromance with the Eric O Grady version of Ant-Man.

I remember that origin, which frankly didn't mesh with canon, and was really only done to make him sympathetic.

Because, as is easy to forget, Tasky trains TERRORISTS. For money.

In some regards, he's worse than Bin Laden. At least Bin Laden cares about his cause. Tasky would have trained Bin Laden's people, taken their green and whistled as he went onto his next job.

I honestly was a little disappointed with Tasky in BW. I'd hoped that he was being set up as a recurring villain ala Boba Fett.

But movies are a different medium, and villains running around unpunished gets older, faster in movies than comics.

[hulahulk]

Finally got to it yesterday. Definitely enjoyed it. I'll rewatch it a dozen times once it gets to D+ for free. Yelena and RG were the character highlights for me. The biggest surprise for me was the Taskmaster twist, and was happy to see it come to that particular conclusion. I loved the post-credits scene.

Yes, Florence Pugh did a great job. I enjoyed the wrestling movie she did. When I heard she was cast for BW, I figured she's in it for the long haul since she has range and can do physical work.

[ChrisIII]

As a Bond fan I thought the MOONRAKER thing was kind of cool, but the film sort of has a few other Bond connections-Both Harbour and Olga Kurlenkyo were in QUANTUM OF SOLACE, and Weisz is of course married to Daniel Craig.

Kind of interesting that there didn't seem to be any sign of Julie Delpy's character from AOU's flashback but they kind of mainly skipped over BW's training.

[I'm a Fish]

Excuse Me? You must not have not read a lot of comics with Taskmaster. The mini series from 10 years ago that give him an origin added depth to his character by giving him a wife and the fact he photographic memory makes him instant forget anything that isn't related to survival. Added a tragic element to his signature gimmick. He has an excellent bromance with the Eric O Grady version of Ant-Man.

I imagine his wife would kill him if he forgets her. Does that count?

[Username taken]

Just cutting straight to the bullet points:

* That credits scene with all those young girls in those containers...did that ever leave an impression. Definitely territory that the MCU hasn't treaded upon before. My hats off to them for having the balls to do it. While I've read a bit about the Red Room from the comics, it never occurred to me how much like human trafficking it actually is.
* Florence Pugh - yeah, definitely the future of the MCU as far as I'm concerned.
* Taskmaster - an improvement from the comics as far as I'm concerned. Other than being a kick ass smart ass, there's literally nothing else to Taskmaster's 616 personality. It's not like they've actually ever attempted to give the character any depth in his 30+ year existence, so this was a step up.
* The concluding action set piece was the only thing that really bugged me. I have a few other little nitpicks, but honestly, I was sick of the whole "floating fortress falls from the sky" bit when it was done in Winter Soldier.

Other than that, though, solid movie.

That scene with the girls was very disturbing to me.

It really stayed with me after I watched the movie.

I've watched a lot of documentary about human trafficking and the likes and it's pretty horrifying stuff.

[Master Planner]

Decent film, although i din't like that they reduced Red Guardian into a comedy relief. In fact, if it had less comedy, it would be much better IMO.

[newparisian]

Saw it. Liked it.

7.5 outta 10.

Points off for an undercooked antagonist story, and not much different being done in the movie from a standard thriller.

[Donald]

I can buy it I just don't get why Nat doesn't get on the copter. The copter surely would've been fired on?

The copter would have been followed and tracked. Ross had no idea who was in the chopper and didn't really care at that point. If Nat got in it, he would have tracked it to get her, making everyone else's escape much harder.

[Donald]

Do you think she bargained with Ross by offering him the intel of all the active Widows around the world in exchange for her freedom?

She didn't have the Widows. She gave the antidote and disk with the files to her sister, she has no idea where they went and where the other Widows are.