Black Widow *Spoilers*

[Wildling]

That scene with the girls was very disturbing to me.

It really stayed with me after I watched the movie.

I've watched a lot of documentary about human trafficking and the likes and it's pretty horrifying stuff.

Decent film, although i din't like that they reduced Red Guardian into a comedy relief. In fact, if it had less comedy, it would be much better IMO.

Movie could have been rated R if they decided (and Disney allowed) to really explore the dark stuff around its corners.

For a second when Taskmaster's face was being revealed I wondered if it was actually going to be Natasha's real mother, as "reward" to her relentlessness. But I guess Natasha being an on-screen child murderer was never going to fly, remorse or not.

[gwhh]

I loved Pugh acting. Her Russian accent was cool and different but yet so stereotypical funny. I wonder how hard it was for her to learn to talk like that.

Update: Now I know what bothering me about her accent. She lived for 3 years in Ohio as a young child. There no way she went undercover with that accent. Way did she get an accent after leaning English in America?

[Comic-Reader Lad]

I liked the movie well enough -- definitely better than I thought I would because I had seen an early trailer that focused on the Red Guardian character and was turned off by how self-consciously funny it was trying to be. I thought BW was going to be stupid like Guardians of the Galaxy.

However, given that the movie had to fill in all the plot holes regarding BW's past and set up Yelena as the new BW, I felt the movie often felt like it was a tying-up-loose-ends project that made the BW character subservient to that. I guess it's hard for a movie set in the past to not fall victim to that.

The family reunion part at the pig farm (which was the part in the trailer, I think) went on a little too long -- long after its point had been made and its purpose had been fulfilled. However, there weren't long stretches of the movie where I was just bored, like in WW84, so overall BW was a solid "B" for me. I don't need to see it again, but I don't regret having seen it once.

The one thing I thought was interesting was that in reading the wiki article about the BW movie, it said that when Marvel was considering directors for it, they told one candidate (Lucrecia Martel) that she "would not have to worry about the action scenes." This makes me think that those types of scenes are really handled by some sort of in-house committee at Marvel/Disney rather than the film's director, (at least for movies where the director doesn't have a huge action background) which makes the mission statement of wanting to hire a female director ring a little hollow. I get that car chase scenes in movies where the main actors aren't always visible might be handled by 2nd unit directors, but BW and most Marvel movies have a lot of 1st unit action stuff, it seems to me.

[John Venus]

Marvel makes extensive use of their second unit directors so the action and look stays consistent from film to film, if the director themselves are good at actions scenes (like the Russo bros) then all the better for the film. They also have their own in-house design team who design characters, looks and concepts for characters, even ones that won't appear on film for quite a while. I wouldn't be surprised if they already had concept art for Spider-Man, FF, Doom and X-Men even before they got the rights to use those characters in the MCU.

Fun fact: They had a pre-vis for the final battle in Endgame with everyone rushing to fight Thanos animated in 2016. Somewhere in the Marvel HQ exists animated versions of all their movies (not every scene just certain key ones).

[CliffHanger2]

Marvel makes extensive use of their second unit directors so the action and look stays consistent from film to film, if the director themselves are good at actions scenes (like the Russo bros) then all the better for the film. They also have their own in-house design team who design characters, looks and concepts for characters, even ones that won't appear on film for quite a while. I wouldn't be surprised if they already had concept art for Spider-Man, FF, Doom and X-Men even before they got the rights to use those characters in the MCU.

Fun fact: They had a pre-vis for the final battle in Endgame with everyone rushing to fight Thanos animated in 2016. Somewhere in the Marvel HQ exists animated versions of all their movies (not every scene just certain key ones).

They had to bring in a second unit for the russos because they aren't good action.

[Immortal Weapon]

The one thing I thought was interesting was that in reading the wiki article about the BW movie, it said that when Marvel was considering directors for it, they told one candidate (Lucrecia Martel) that she "would not have to worry about the action scenes." This makes me think that those types of scenes are really handled by some sort of in-house committee at Marvel/Disney rather than the film's director, (at least for movies where the director doesn't have a huge action background) which makes the mission statement of wanting to hire a female director ring a little hollow. I get that car chase scenes in movies where the main actors aren't always visible might be handled by 2nd unit directors, but BW and most Marvel movies have a lot of 1st unit action stuff, it seems to me.

Marvel tends to get tend to get indie directors for their multi million dollar films. The level of a Marvel production would normally be out of their wheelhouse so I don't blame Marvel for making use of 2nd Unit directors for stuff the main director isn't use to doing.

[gwhh]

In the comics. The BW was sterile because of the super serum given to them. I thought Pugh rant was cruss and to much Hollywood/left course politically correctness.

Re: Taskmaster: The more I think about it, it couldn't end any other way. Well, maybe if her allegiance AND abilities were tied to that chip on the back of her neck and all Nat had to do was smash it...but there's no way to know if that would have killed her, so...yeah couldn't have really ended any other way. And Natasha wasn't about to kill Dreykov's daughter [again].

I like the idea that there's a team of Black Widows out there...we'll probably never see them again, but I guess I like that they exist.

Red Guardian still has Taskmaster's shield, right? I'd like to see a Red Guardian/Iron Maiden movie now.

What can I saw about Yelena that hasn't already been said? She stole the show. Every scene she was in. I actually think this is the first movie I've ever seen with Florence Pugh in it, and interestingly enough, she's in the sequel/short film "Father of the Bride part 3(ish)". Actual title. I never saw the first two, so I'd have to watch those first.

Also, just found this: Florence Pugh pushed for Black Widow’s ‘involuntary hysterectomy’ clapback after reading the original script.

[Immortal Weapon]

In the comics. The BW was sterile because of the super serum given to them. I thought Pugh rant was cruss and to much Hollywood/left course politically correctness. And was out of place in action comic book movie.

From what I read about that scene, the actresses and the director thought it was sexist how Alexei asked Yelena if she was having her period when she was being rude to him. The going into detail about their sterilization is how they chose to salvage it.

[WebLurker]

In the comics. The BW was sterile because of the super serum given to them. I thought Pugh rant was cruss and to much Hollywood/left course politically correctness. And was out of place in action comic book movie.

From what I read about that scene, the actresses and the director thought it was sexist how Alexei asked Yelena if she was having her period when she was being rude to him. The going into detail about their sterilization is how they chose to salvage it.

Yep. Actually thought it was one of the better scenes in the film.

[Immortal Weapon]

Yep. Actually thought it was one of the better scenes in the film.

I thought it was a good spot to bring it up. It was some much needed clarification after Whedon screw it up on Age of Ultron.

[titanfan]

Basically there's potentially thousands of Black Widows around the world, who are now free from slavery, but still have no known family, and the only skills they have are spy/assassination type skills. That's a pretty potentially terrifying thought.

Just like Winter Soldier, there should be huge repercussions from this, which I hope we get around to seeing some time. One plane of Widows and Melina probably isn't enough to save all of the Widows from falling into bad hands. (Not to mention the ones who will choose to do bad things with their skills)

[ChrisIII]

Aren't they basically still under the conditioning unless the red dust is further mass-produced? Is it ever made clear if Dreyvov was acting alone, really? Although his own control might be broken it's possible there are other conspirators in the Red Room program still around (Including perhaps Madame B from AOU) who could take advantage of it, similar to Zemo being able to use Bucky using Hydra's code words even if he wasn't Hydra itself.

[Immortal Weapon]

Basically there's potentially thousands of Black Widows around the world, who are now free from slavery, but still have no known family, and the only skills they have are spy/assassination type skills. That's a pretty potentially terrifying thought.

Just like Winter Soldier, there should be huge repercussions from this, which I hope we get around to seeing some time. One plane of Widows and Melina probably isn't enough to save all of the Widows from falling into bad hands. (Not to mention the ones who will choose to do bad things with their skills)

I'm hoping that Sharon got her hands on a few Widows. They can definitely help with her business

[KabutoRyder]

For a second when Taskmaster's face was being revealed I wondered if it was actually going to be Natasha's real mother, as "reward" to her relentlessness. But I guess Natasha being an on-screen child murderer was never going to fly, remorse or not.

I was definitely terrified for a while that this was going to be the outcome, thankfully it did not happen.

[WebLurker]

I thought it was a good spot to bring it up. It was some much needed clarification after Whedon screw it up on Age of Ultron.

Yeah, I've been over they myth that Black Widow was saying that she was a monster because she couldn't have kids for years now -- although I will concede that the myth that Endgame said that her life as a woman without a family was worth less than a man who did have one has gotten me a bit more annoyed, if because it's an even more blatant misreading of what's actually been said. They've got to die.

That said, in the case of Ultron, I will freely agree that the muddled writing did not due the scene any favors (esp. seeing how the strong points of the scene -- Black Widow's self-loathing over her past crimes and how much it bothers her that the mutilation she suffered at the hands of her handlers robs her of agency even after she freed herself from them) and the revelation of how Whedon's self-proclaimed feminist writings was a sham does make it hard to look at the scene and wonder if he really was endorsing the bad take on it.