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  1. #1
    Extraordinary Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Default Was the Death Star II kind of redundant given the Final Order?

    Sure, in the movie it mainly functioned as bait/a trap for the Rebel fleet, but presumably it would've been used after that, especially when the rest of it was completed.

    However, in Rise of Skywalker we have the Final Order, a massive fleet of Star Destroyers which have close to the same firepower on every single ship (although we never see them use the big cannons on the Rebel ships). A recent issue of Darth Vader revealed that Palpatine had these ships around since at least around the time of ESB (Which also kind of explains their retro look).

    Then again, even 30 years later Palpatine says the Might of the final order will soon be ready (Implying it's not quite there yet), so I'm guessing it's not yet complete/installed by the time of ROTJ. So Maybe DSII would've served their purpose in the interim.
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  2. #2
    Astonishing Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    Sure, in the movie it mainly functioned as bait/a trap for the Rebel fleet, but presumably it would've been used after that, especially when the rest of it was completed.

    However, in Rise of Skywalker we have the Final Order, a massive fleet of Star Destroyers which have close to the same firepower on every single ship (although we never see them use the big cannons on the Rebel ships). A recent issue of Darth Vader revealed that Palpatine had these ships around since at least around the time of ESB (Which also kind of explains their retro look).

    Then again, even 30 years later Palpatine says the Might of the final order will soon be ready (Implying it's not quite there yet), so I'm guessing it's not yet complete/installed by the time of ROTJ. So Maybe DSII would've served their purpose in the interim.
    Eh, I think it's best just to forget the whole final order thing.

  3. #3
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    Keep in mind that the Death Star was mostly impeded by the help. It didn't take long to build the second one and while not finished by Endor, it is functional. They spent 20 years figuring out the first one, it's not surprising they can whip up several more.

    And frankly, Palpatine would want to. It's a whole fleet of ships that you can't just take out and call it a day. A Death Star would crush a fleet being sent after it but is vulnerable to smaller fighters, but now you have a bunch of capitol ships with the weapon attached. Now you have the expansion of the tech being siege weaponry as used by the First Order. You can't just engage one target since any one of those ships is a massive threat. The genie is out of the bottle and you have to just keep firing because everyone is outfitted with it.

    Did Palpatine need DS2? Well it was ready to go for his trap. Exegol was capable but that's not ready yet and unfortunately by the time it was Palpatine was on deaths door for his double tap.
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  4. #4
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Rise of Skywalker should just be ignored. The entire sequel trilogy should if you want to be honest. It adds nothing but stupidity to the Star Wars lore.

  5. #5
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    Honestly this all by palpatine's design. death star 2 is supposed to destroy the rebels. the super star destroyers are not part of his death star 2 plans purse but they are all connected expect for the first death star

  6. #6
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    I think the second Death Star was absolutely a viable thing. It took decades to create the first one, a few short years to get the second one operational, but decades later the Final Order fleet is barely up and running. It's just the evolution of technology, and shrinking the tech enough to fit on a star destroyer was clearly a very long, time-consuming process. With the first Star proving how vulnerable the design was, it makes perfect sense that the Empire would start on the Final Order fleet while using Death Star II as a place-holder.

    But I think it's a dangerous game trying to rationalize and fit the sequel trilogy into any kind of proper, rational frame with the originals. I think Force Awakens was a solid film and a nice return to form (with all the nostalgia that comes with it). After the terrible prequels we needed a palate cleanser....but the follow up's really killed the potential to get the franchise back on track.

    With how amazing Mandalorian is, I'm now of the mindset that Star Wars should focus more on smaller narratives and lesser known elements of the lore, and leave the big stories, Jedi, and Skywalkers out of it for a while.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

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  7. #7
    Extraordinary Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I think the second Death Star was absolutely a viable thing. It took decades to create the first one, a few short years to get the second one operational, but decades later the Final Order fleet is barely up and running. It's just the evolution of technology, and shrinking the tech enough to fit on a star destroyer was clearly a very long, time-consuming process. With the first Star proving how vulnerable the design was, it makes perfect sense that the Empire would start on the Final Order fleet while using Death Star II as a place-holder.

    But I think it's a dangerous game trying to rationalize and fit the sequel trilogy into any kind of proper, rational frame with the originals. I think Force Awakens was a solid film and a nice return to form (with all the nostalgia that comes with it). After the terrible prequels we needed a palate cleanser....but the follow up's really killed the potential to get the franchise back on track.

    With how amazing Mandalorian is, I'm now of the mindset that Star Wars should focus more on smaller narratives and lesser known elements of the lore, and leave the big stories, Jedi, and Skywalkers out of it for a while.
    I don't think the rest of the Empire knew about it for the most part with some exceptions. Vader is in the dark until the comics storyline, and originally the FO is made up of Imperial veterans and (apart from Snoke, probably) they are totally unaware of Palpatine's survival or a hidden fleet until ROS. The Sith Eternal seems to be sort of a largely independent group from the Empire and First Order until they kind of merge in ROS.
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  8. #8
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    I don't think the rest of the Empire knew about it for the most part with some exceptions.
    Well Palpatine did seem to compartmentalize everything so I wouldn't be surprised if the Final Order fleet was a secret from most. But it still makes sense to me that the Emperor would have begun construction on it; he did love his super weapons and what's better than a Death Star? A whole fleet of them!

    Kinda off topic but are we sure that was the "real" Palpatine in Rise? I thought it was a clone? Only saw the film once in theaters and wasn't paying too much attention even then; Last Jedi was....not the film I hoped it would be, and Rise showed me pretty quickly that it wasn't gonna hold up either so I kinda just checked out.

    In my head canon the Palpatine we saw in Rise was a clone. I struggle to believe the old bastard survived falling down a chasm and having his space station explode on top of him and then survived in the vacuum of space until some straggler Imperial pulled his ass out of trouble. Jedi and Sith are tough as hell and hard to kill, but not *that* hard.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

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  9. #9
    Astonishing Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Well Palpatine did seem to compartmentalize everything so I wouldn't be surprised if the Final Order fleet was a secret from most. But it still makes sense to me that the Emperor would have begun construction on it; he did love his super weapons and what's better than a Death Star? A whole fleet of them!

    Kinda off topic but are we sure that was the "real" Palpatine in Rise? I thought it was a clone? Only saw the film once in theaters and wasn't paying too much attention even then; Last Jedi was....not the film I hoped it would be, and Rise showed me pretty quickly that it wasn't gonna hold up either so I kinda just checked out.

    In my head canon the Palpatine we saw in Rise was a clone. I struggle to believe the old bastard survived falling down a chasm and having his space station explode on top of him and then survived in the vacuum of space until some straggler Imperial pulled his ass out of trouble. Jedi and Sith are tough as hell and hard to kill, but not *that* hard.
    Yeah, he was very explicitly a clone, but with the spirit of Palpatine inside of it so pretty much Palpatine 2.0 than a true clone.
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