[Theory] Here's what Kindred really wants.

[Dzika_Sowa]

Kindred. We know who he is, but we still don't really know what he wants. What is his purpose? it can't really be mere revenge or killing Peter.

After reading Last Remains again, and having the knowledge from last issues, I would like to share my theory with you, the truth of what Kindred really wants.

And what he wants is, for his soul to be cleansed.

Let's start from the beginning. We know that Kindred is Harry Osborn - Norman knew it from the beginning and Harry himself does not hide it. But there is something wrong - for years now, Harry Osborn was a great friend to Peter. He helped him with Parker Industries, and he overcame his daddy issues. The Kindred-Harry couldn't be Harry Osborn, right?

Yes, of course he can. But he isn't the Harry, who came back in OMD/BND. That Harry is currently Locked in cell with Carlie Cooper. And he was locked there by Kindred himself. And here's another shocking info - Carlie discovered a skeleton of Harry Osborn on cemetery, where Kindred had his lair. How is this possible? How there can be three Harry Osborn's?

Well, there is only two of them, and one is the preOMD version, and the second one is a clone.

You see, what got me thinking is the part in last remains, when kindred gets locked by Norman on cementery. He seemingly breaks down in tears, and asks how could they do this to him? That is, to make him become Kindred. We all guess it has to do with the Peter and Mephisto deal, but what role does Norman and Mysterio play in all of this?

Well... PreOMD Harry really died saving Peter.

The story went on as normal until OMD. Peter makes a pact with Mephisto, and since Mephisto is the devil, he changed the course of events so that Spider-Man would suffer anyway. So the story turned so that Harry did die - but Norman decided to clone him. While Harry went to Hell for his deeds, his clone with the help of Mysterio took his place, following a history of rehabilitation in Europe. The problem is that PostOMD Harry doesn't know he's a clone, but Mysterio does, of course.

Therefore Kindred tortured him as punishment for helping Norman in this endeavor. This is also the sin of Norman that Kindred wants him to confess. Unfortunately for him, Norman has no idea that Kindred is the original Harry, he thinks the cloned one has gone mad.

Ok. but why doesn't Kindred just tell the truth? Because he can't. As a demon, he must be trapped by some oath with Mephisto - and, most likely, he will not be released until Peter and Norman realize what they've done.

When You think about it, we saw foreshadowing with Spencer's other stories. The Split between Spider-Man and PP is the Good Harry - Bad Kindred. The Kraven cloned son in Hunted is foreshadowing of cloned Harry.

Anyway, here's my theory. Kindred just wants to be saved, but in order for Peter to do this, he must first force him to see the truth. The truth of what he did - the OMD deal, that lead to this situation.

Do you think I guessed Spencer's secret plan, or am I terribly wrong? forgive the linguistic mistakes, it's one in the morning when I write this.

[xpyred]

I've actually been reading the run again because I forgot most of it. My view is that Kindred is ticked off that Peter made a deal with Mephisto to save Aunt May but the idea never crossed Peter's mind to make a deal to save George Stacy, Gwen, Harry, Flash or anyone else who died. Your theory is better but this is Marvel - I don't expect much effort to be put in the reveal.

[Drexelhand]

I think it's more simple than that: Harry went to Heaven, the deal with Mephisto changed things and he got sent down to Hell.

[xpyred]

I think it's more simple than that: Harry went to Heaven, the deal with Mephisto changed things and he got sent down to Hell.

Wasn’t it insinuated that Kindred is the reason Mysterio was sent back from Hell during the Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man run in 2005?

[Huntsman Spider]

Wasn’t it insinuated that Kindred is the reason Mysterio was sent back from Hell during the Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man run in 2005?

More or less confirmed in Nick Spencer's ASM #1, that Kindred was the one who sent Mysterio back up to the living realm after he offed himself in the finale of Guardian Devil and could damned well (pun fully intended) send him back to eternal torment if he didn't shape up and start living up to his end of their bargain. That said, OP's theory is pretty sound. Complex, but sound.

[Spiderfan001]

More or less confirmed in Nick Spencer's ASM #1, that Kindred was the one who sent Mysterio back up to the living realm after he offed himself in the finale of Guardian Devil and could damned well (pun fully intended) send him back to eternal torment if he didn't shape up and start living up to his end of their bargain. That said, OP's theory is pretty sound. Complex, but sound.

This.It was confirmed.

The theory is good but the thing is this can go in sooo many different directions I doubt you can predict it.

I really hope they undo Sins Past.He has mentioned it twice and we are dealing with Sins and Norman Osborn being cleansed of them so please just undo it.

I fear this is either a mis-direct and it's just references or they will double down on it.

[Dzika_Sowa]

Thanks. The theory has some flaws for example - if Norman really cloned Harry, he should feel bad about the whole thing and confess it to Peter.

I just hope we will get a satysfying resolution.
It's really hard to predict where all of this is going, but judging from what we know now, I'm certain that:

- The story is heavily connected to OMD
- Kindred must be Harry Osborn (a version at least)
- Mephisto is involved
- As much as Harry wants Peter to confess, Norman is still involved somehow

I'm curious what Kindred wants with Chameleon though, I think that this "serum" or something could be a red herring. Then, You remember that Harry worked with Chameleon on the whole robo-parents thing, so maybe Kindred has something up his sleeve. Maybe he is posing as someone close to Peter. Maybe he has a sleeper agent. That's one piece I can't really fit anywhere, as of now. I hope this doesn't mean, that "PostOMD" Harry is some kind of Chameleon child, that would be really anticlimactic.

[bob.schoonover]

I like this theory and think it's done the best job so far at making Last Remains make sense - Harry *couldn't* tell them is a much better solution than Harry just . . . didn't.

As my own guess at the Chameleon role - Kindred-Harry can't maintain his human form permanently w/o the serum and won't replace his clone-self until he can keep a non-demonic presence.

I've actually been reading the run again because I forgot most of it. My view is that Kindred is ticked off that Peter made a deal with Mephisto to save Aunt May but the idea never crossed Peter's mind to make a deal to save George Stacy, Gwen, Harry, Flash or anyone else who died. Your theory is better but this is Marvel - I don't expect much effort to be put in the reveal.

I don't see this as likely - it's a little too simple for Harry's giant scheme.

I think it's more simple than that: Harry went to Heaven, the deal with Mephisto changed things and he got sent down to Hell.

There is not yet any precedent for a deal with Mephisto getting to take pre-existing souls out of Heaven. Not saying Spencer can't do it, but that massively changes his powers and hierarchy in the cosmogony of the MU

Thanks. The theory has some flaws for example - if Norman really cloned Harry, he should feel bad about the whole thing and confess it to Peter.

I just hope we will get a satysfying resolution.
It's really hard to predict where all of this is going, but judging from what we know now, I'm certain that:

- The story is heavily connected to OMD
- Kindred must be Harry Osborn (a version at least)
- Mephisto is involved
- As much as Harry wants Peter to confess, Norman is still involved somehow

I don't know that Norman would ever feel guilty about cloning his son.

[Jonathangoop1811]

I like this theory.

Also, Harry did some bad stuff as the Green Goblin, I think he even killed some people, so even if he saved Peter before dying, I can still see Harry went to hell for his past sins.

[davew128]

oh better yet, all of the clones were actually bred by the best cloner on the planet....Mr. Sinister, making this a TRUE Sinister War!

[t-spider]

I like the OPs original post and it makes sense... but even if that's the case, I hope Harry doesn't get 'freed' from Hell. I mean, he still killed people as Kindred... Stromm, the Psychologist who was hypnotized by Mysterio into taking his place and trying to fool Kindred, who knows who else?

[Huntsman Spider]

oh better yet, all of the clones were actually bred by the best cloner on the planet....Mr. Sinister, making this a TRUE Sinister War!

Oh, that would be a fun one, and Spider-Man has dealt with Sinister before . . . see the X-Men/Spider-Man miniseries by Christos Gage back in 2010 and then about five years later, Spider-Man and the X-Men taking place after Wolverine (Logan) died.

I like the OPs original post and it makes sense... but even if that's the case, I hope Harry doesn't get 'freed' from Hell. I mean, he still killed people as Kindred... Stromm, the Psychologist who was hypnotized by Mysterio into taking his place and trying to fool Kindred, who knows who else?

Fair point. He said he didn't like killing innocents, not that he wouldn't have done it if it were necessary for his goals of making Peter suffer.

[Darkspellmaster]

oh better yet, all of the clones were actually bred by the best cloner on the planet....Mr. Sinister, making this a TRUE Sinister War!

Quick thoughts. If Sinister did help in the cloning, could this clone help explain the resurrection protocol thats happening in Xmen right now? Like Harry was a form of testing to see if it can be done?

[Somecrazyaussie]

Thanks. The theory has some flaws for example - if Norman really cloned Harry, he should feel bad about the whole thing and confess it to Peter.

I just hope we will get a satysfying resolution.
It's really hard to predict where all of this is going, but judging from what we know now, I'm certain that:

- The story is heavily connected to OMD
- Kindred must be Harry Osborn (a version at least)
- Mephisto is involved
- As much as Harry wants Peter to confess, Norman is still involved somehow

I'm curious what Kindred wants with Chameleon though, I think that this "serum" or something could be a red herring. Then, You remember that Harry worked with Chameleon on the whole robo-parents thing, so maybe Kindred has something up his sleeve. Maybe he is posing as someone close to Peter. Maybe he has a sleeper agent. That's one piece I can't really fit anywhere, as of now. I hope this doesn't mean, that "PostOMD" Harry is some kind of Chameleon child, that would be really anticlimactic.

The serum is the one thing I can't figure out either. We know it is a serum, but we don't know what it is for. At first, I thought it might be used to stabilize appearances/change them. I don't think it is a red herring. I believe it plays a part.

It would be easy to clone Harry because Norman was the one who funded Jackal and certainly would have access to the science behind it. But the Jackal never could create stable clones. Ben was the rare case where he did. So how does the clone Harry not suffer from degeneration? Did Norman somehow figure it out himself or does Harry still exist because of the effects of the Goblin serum?

[Dzika_Sowa]

The serum is the one thing I can't figure out either. We know it is a serum, but we don't know what it is for. At first, I thought it might be used to stabilize appearances/change them. I don't think it is a red herring. I believe it plays a part.

It would be easy to clone Harry because Norman was the one who funded Jackal and certainly would have access to the science behind it. But the Jackal never could create stable clones. Ben was the rare case where he did. So how does the clone Harry not suffer from degeneration? Did Norman somehow figure it out himself or does Harry still exist because of the effects of the Goblin serum?

What if... Kindred is the clone and he needs serum to not suffer from degeneration? Or maybe the serum is for another Harry. Many possibilities...