Why was DCAU WW portrayed so badly?

[Perseus]

It also snapped in one episode, "Twilight." She muzzled a dinosaur-like creature that just ripped it off his face, complete with snapping sound effect.

We love it when Diana's equipment is treated like garbage.

[Alpha]

Does Diana NEED too be the "heart" of the JL. How many would that make? we have MMH, Flash, Superman. I think Diana's stories should revolve around being the pillar of integrity and honor. Her judgement and wisdom should be integral to the League.

Pillar of integrity and honor? I'm not saying Diana isn't those things, but how is that a good driver for a character in an ensemble of heroes? Were Superman, Flash, Martian Manhunter and John Stewart morally dubious? They were all honorable and full of integrity. Diana doesn't stand out in that regard.

[Alpha]

A good story needs to be well executed from every angle. That includes power level. A story about WW. Where she spends the time talking about how she can't beat superman and where batmanb actually fights her phtsically for a brief moment. It is not the type of WW story i like to read. That is not the only problem with league of one. The plot they used doesn't feel right to me. But to each their own.

Okay my dude. That's perfectly fine. What Wonder Woman stories did you want them to adapt?

[Gaius]

I think that the JLD stories would be perfect for animation movies or series where Wonder Woman could shine.
I have also read the history of the Justice League in space, where they organize and help a planet where the League basically makes a coup; Diana's attitude that contrasts with that of the rest of her team mates is quite interesting.
But I think in general and lately there are not so many stories in the League where she really shines.

Yeah, that Spurrier arc was pretty refreshing for WW as far as JL stories go. Though yes her time on the JLD blows away just about her entire regular League history out of the water.

[Perseus]

Pillar of integrity and honor? I'm not saying Diana isn't those things, but how is that a good driver for a character in an ensemble of heroes? Were Superman, Flash, Martian Manhunter and John Stewart morally dubious? They were all honorable and full of integrity. Diana doesn't stand out in that regard.

You can say the exact same thing about being "the heart" of the league. I suppose JL/U didn't need to have those big character building stories for MMH, Flash, Batman, and Superman being the beating hearts of the league. Also, "how is that a good driver for a character in an ensemble of heroes?" really..... Do you prefer your Diana as one who doesn't have an opinion, follows Superman's compass a la DCceced and Injustice, and doesn't make vital decisions regarding a plot? Don't you hammer about that the best version of the character is Marston's Diana, a woman that is literally propaganda for the kind of woman to rule the world? Integrity, honor, judgement, and wisdom are suddenly things off the table for a driving force of character because she's part of a team?

I'm generally confused by this response, I mean, what do you want her to be?

[Sebastianne]

Yeah, that Spurrier arc was pretty refreshing for WW as far as JL stories go. Though yes her time on the JLD blows away just about her entire regular League history out of the water.

Yeah this one, I really enjoyed how she antagonizes the rest of the team...

[Guy_McNichts]

I wouldn't mind seeing A League of One get adapted. It could've made a decent arc for the series or even into stand-alone movie. All they really need to do is cut out the one, single, lone line of dialogue where Diana claims she could never beat Superman.

Which, by the by, aside from making her look much weaker than him than she should be, strikes me as a very out of character thing for her to say. Diana doesn't strike me as the type of person who would ever claim she can't beat anyone or, for that matter, accomplish anything she set out to do. Wonder Woman in general, when written well, has a general "Yes I can" attitude, coupled with the fact she does have a competitive side to her. Even if she believed Superman (or anyone) was that far above her, I think she would see it as a challenge to be met, not something to just accept.
But that's beside the point.

Among other things, they've could maybe not turned Circe into a comedy character. Or at least, I agree, having Batman get turned into a pig so Diana team up with Zatanna to save him.
Maybe an arc where Queen Clea leads an uprising in Atlantis and Aquaman & Mera turn to the League for assistance and Wonder Woman is critical in defeating her because Clea has stolen Poseidon's Trident and Diana is best suited to dealing with that sort of thing. Osira could appear and offer to join the League, impressing the team with her ability to bring peace wherever she goes, only for Diana to realize she's doing it by taking away people's free will. An arc where Granny Goodness starts kidnapping members of the League to turn them into Female Furies, and Diana leads the rescue mission to save them.

I'm thinking about other ways they could've improved Wonder Woman in Justice League or stories they could've done with her, and something I've realized is the show pretty much robbed her of what unique things she could've brought.
What Diana brings to the table in a team dynamic is 1) the Lasso and its ability to defend against illusions or mind control. 2) Her compassionate nature and instinct to seek the peaceful resolution first. 3) Her exceptional fighting skills and experience.

And she had none of these things in the show.

The biggest offender is the Lasso. Wonder Woman should've been someone ideal for threats like Dr. Destiny and his nightmares, or Ultra-Humanite (or was if Grodd? I don't remember which telepathic ape it was) using his telepathy to turn the League against each other, or Eclipso possessing the team.
The creators said they took away the Lasso's power because it made resolving plots too easy, but that's a crock. It just changes the story. If Starro invades and starts taking over people's minds, Diana's Lasso can defend her and maybe free a few others, but she'd still be significantly outnumbered and need to utilize a different strategy. The Lasso doesn't negate the story, it just demands Diana play a relevant part in it.

Imagine if Dr. Destiny did try to attack her mind with her fears (And Christ, just imagine what fear Timm and co. would've given Diana) and she's able to resist or fight back because of the Lasso. It doesn't ruin the story, it just means she would be one of the heroes bringing about his defeat alongside Batman. If the Lasso could protect her from Eclipso, she AND the Flash could be forced to Die Hard their way around the satellite to save their friends.

But no. The Lasso was just a rope.

They also downplayed her compassionate and diplomatic nature, which could've offered a unique approach to certain opponents and threats. Imagine if she was the one who befriended Solomon Grundy as opposed to Hawkgirl? What if she reached out to her Justice Lord counterpart and tried appealing to her better nature? What if she had realized Amazo wasn't evil and only being misled by Luthor?
When they did finally make her a diplomat, she spent the whole time scowling and rolling her eyes like a child forced to do an unwanted chore.

It occurs to me now that all Wonder Woman ever really did in this show was punch. Seriously, was there a single villain or challenge she encountered throughout the entire show that she didn't resolve by hitting it? Even getting the Black Mercy off Bruce was just brute force ripping it off him. She realized she couldn't beat Ares' war machine only after Dove taught her a lesson about peace.
Was there any example of Wonder Woman overcoming a foe or saving the day in Justice League that involved her ingenuity, actual skills, or cunning? I really can't think of anything she did that didn't involve simple punching.

In fact, I remember an interview with one of the show's developers where they bragged that they always made sure Wonder Woman was fighting the hardest out of everyone. I know they think that proves they treated her with respect and made her appear powerful, but it kind of reveals how little use they had for her. In any given situation or battle, Diana's just in the background punching things while the other heroes actually resolve the plot. They can't think of anything useful to do with her, so just have her punching things in the background or off-screen.

And when there was no punching to be done, she did nothing. When Captain Marvel chewed out the League, she just stood there and looked sad even though she had nothing to do with what happened. I honestly wanted her at some point to say, "Hey, I just got here. What's going on?"
When Batman and Superman were getting pissy with each other over lobotomizing Doomsday and the laser cannon in the satellite, did Diana have an opinion or thoughts on the conflict? No, she just stood there in silence and looked sad.

Furthermore, did she have ANY opinion on the whole Cadmus/League conflict? Did she worry they were walking a dangerous line? Did she misunderstand Cadmus's problem with the League because she wasn't around for Superman's brainwashing and therefore lacked context? Did she at any point consider there might be a better solution to the conflict?


Damn, I'm not trying to be negative. And like I said, there were good moments with her, but seriously, the more I think about it, Justice League was an awful depiction of Wonder Woman. Just a one-note, joyless, unpleasant vision of the character. Lacking in warmth except when flirting with Batman and that one scene in the last episode where she hugs Martian Manhunter, and generally stiff and bland to highlight how much more engaging the other characters were.

Looking back on it, it seems the one thing they got right about Diana's character was her passion. She's a fiercely passionate person who truly believes in what she does. But the key thing is where that passion comes from. As said, when written properly, Wonder Woman's passion comes from a "Yes, I can!" attitude. Her passion is her idealistic belief in seeing the best in people.
The creators of Justice League, however, made her passion come from a "But I'm right!" attitude. Look back on Rich Fogel's comment where he zeroes in on the fact she's royalty. So we got a pompous, aloof Wonder Woman who does what she does because she's entitled and sneers when people don't do what she says.

[Alpha]

You can say the exact same thing about being "the heart" of the league. I suppose JL/U didn't need to have those big character building stories for MMH, Flash, Batman, and Superman being the beating hearts of the league. Also, "how is that a good driver for a character in an ensemble of heroes?" really..... Do you prefer your Diana as one who doesn't have an opinion, follows Superman's compass a la DCceced and Injustice, and doesn't make vital decisions regarding a plot? Don't you hammer about that the best version of the character is Marston's Diana, a woman that is literally propaganda for the kind of woman to rule the world? Integrity, honor, judgement, and wisdom are suddenly things off the table for a driving force of character because she's part of a team?

I'm generally confused by this response, I mean, what do you want her to be?

Cmon dude. I specifically said that I agree Diana has tremendous integrity and honor, but that's not different from any of the others Leaguers. Superman and Wonder Woman disagreeing has nothing to do with integrity and honor, unless we're talking about Clark from the Injustice universe.

Of course being "the heart of the group" isn't a defining trait of Diana (although I would argue that Diana should have stories about her challengings others to reach emotional breakthroughs). Flash and Martian Manhunter and Superman could all easily be the heart of the group at any given time. All I said was that I liked how A League of One portrays Diana emotionally, doesn't mean that it's how I define her in the ensemble. Don't twist my words please.

What I like about Marston's take on Diana's attitude is that she is like your favorite gym trainer. She's there to challenge you to be your best self through positive reinforcement. And she has a specific goal for the world. Integrity and Honor are not the defining traits of Diana. They are important qualities, but not her defining traits, specially in a group like the Justice League.

[Alpha]

Damn, I'm not trying to be negative. And like I said, there were good moments with her, but seriously, the more I think about it, Justice League was an awful depiction of Wonder Woman. Just a one-note, joyless, unpleasant vision of the character. Lacking in warmth except when flirting with Batman and that one scene in the last episode where she hugs Martian Manhunter, and generally stiff and bland to highlight how much more engaging the other characters were.

Looking back on it, it seems the one thing they got right about Diana's character was her passion. She's a fiercely passionate person who truly believes in what she does. But the key thing is where that passion comes from. As said, when written properly, Wonder Woman's passion comes from a "Yes, I can!" attitude. Her passion is her idealistic belief in seeing the best in people.
The creators of Justice League, however, made her passion come from a "But I'm right!" attitude. Look back on Rich Fogel's comment where he zeroes in on the fact she's royalty. So we got a pompous, aloof Wonder Woman who does what she does because she's entitled and sneers when people don't do what she says.

I really agree with everything you wrote. And your point about "Yes I can" is so important. The one thing I want to add is that I disagree with what I think most people here want from Diana which is for her to "pacify others". Fiana shouldn't just want people to be pleasant, she wants them to reach their full potential. So her approach isn't just helping them improve, it's about actively challenging them, pushing them along with her. That's what she brings to the table in a Justice League ensemble. Whereas Clark van be homely and trusting, Wally can be fun, and Jon'zz can be empathetic, Diana will compel you to really face your issues head on and ask the tough questions about yourself, and make you go into places youwanna gobut are afraid to.

[Perseus]

Cmon dude. I specifically said that I agree Diana has tremendous integrity and honor, but that's not different from any of the others Leaguers. Superman and Wonder Woman disagreeing has nothing to do with integrity and honor, unless we're talking about Clark from the Injustice universe.

Of course being "the heart of the group" isn't a defining trait of Diana (although I would argue that Diana should have stories about her challengings others to reach emotional breakthroughs). Flash and Martian Manhunter and Superman could all easily be the heart of the group at any given time. All I said was that I liked how A League of One portrays Diana emotionally, doesn't mean that it's how I define her in the ensemble. Don't twist my words please.

What I like about Marston's take on Diana's attitude is that she is like your favorite gym trainer. She's there to challenge you to be your best self through positive reinforcement. And she has a specific goal for the world. Integrity and Honor are not the defining traits of Diana. They are important qualities, but not her defining traits, specially in a group like the Justice League.

You seem to be leaving out "judgement and wisdom" from my original post. I value Diana as being the wisest member of the League. In a team were virtually everyone has their own demons and problems, Diana tends to be the more well rounded one. There are dozens of stories that show case this; from Diana up holding her oath in Hiketeia to her decision to kill Max (and what would have happened afterwards). They aren't widely known because they don't get a ton of attention in other media, Max's death is usually just there to insult Diana's character and her "willingness" to kill, completely ignoring the circumstances sometimes. I agree that "the heart of the group" isn't special to Diana and that she should also have those stories too.

I don't much care about A League of One, its a fine story, I think there are certainly flaws in it (looking at the Batman and Superman scenes in particular, action and dialogue). But my response has nothing to do with your opinion of that story.

Yeah, gym trainer and Diana don't really go together to me. Female Goku isn't something that interests me. I get that Diana is there as a teacher, but that role comes with being an ambassador. Diana's "defining traits" are usually compassion and wisdom. I tend to think that Diana is wise enough to know that too much positivity can be toxic and unhealthy.

[Perseus]

I really agree with everything you wrote. And your point about "Yes I can" is so important. The one thing I want to add is that I disagree with what I think most people here want from Diana which is for her to "pacify others". Fiana shouldn't just want people to be pleasant, she wants them to reach their full potential. So her approach isn't just helping them improve, it's about actively challenging them, pushing them along with her. That's what she brings to the table in a Justice League ensemble. Whereas Clark van be homely and trusting, Wally can be fun, and Jon'zz can be empathetic, Diana will compel you to really face your issues head on and ask the tough questions about yourself, and make you go into places youwanna gobut are afraid to.

I agree with this take, but explain to me why this is suddenly not in line with her having integrity or honor as traits to define her as part of the league. And note not once did I say that the other league members are suddenly dishonorable or have no integrity of character.

[Alpha]

I agree with this take, but explain to me why this is suddenly not in line with her having integrity or honor as traits to define her as part of the league. And note not once did I say that the other league members are suddenly dishonorable or have no integrity of character.

What I said was that integrity and honor aren't her defining traits amidst the Justice League. Most of them are just as honorable and full of integrity.

From what I gather, what you wrote about her Wisdom ans Judgment is "Diana knows best and is always right". I don't like this idea. For one thing, it can be boring. For another, isn't that the same thing Superman and Batman were portrayed as? thati know Batman at least always thought he was right. And there's nothing more pompous than thinking you know what's best for everyone.

Gym trainer is straight from the Marston version. It's in her relationship with the Holliday Girls, it's in her interaction with Queen Atomia. It's fine if you don't like that version, but it was very much in her essence. Think of those Aerobics videos where a woman tells you "let's go faster! You're beautiful! you're doing great! You're gonna get that body you've always wanted" Except that what Diana teaches you is to study science and art along with athleticism.

I never liked the ambassador thing so I guess we can't find a middle ground on that.

[Gaius]

Yeah this one, I really enjoyed how she antagonizes the rest of the team...

Oh yeah, it was a treat seeing Bats and Supes on the wrong side of the argument given stuff like Kingdom Come, Infinite Crisis, and Injustice

[Alpha]

I don't get why Diana would be the one to argue in favor of moral relativism in front of Clark. She literally left her Islandto teach the world "a better way". In the Marston era she had a specific ideology she wanted to impose around the world.

I feel like Clark should be the one that would hesitate in interfering with international (or galactic) affairs.

[Gaius]

I wouldn't mind seeing A League of One get adapted. It could've made a decent arc for the series or even into stand-alone movie. All they really need to do is cut out the one, single, lone line of dialogue where Diana claims she could never beat Superman.

Which, by the by, aside from making her look much weaker than him than she should be, strikes me as a very out of character thing for her to say. Diana doesn't strike me as the type of person who would ever claim she can't beat anyone or, for that matter, accomplish anything she set out to do. Wonder Woman in general, when written well, has a general "Yes I can" attitude, coupled with the fact she does have a competitive side to her. Even if she believed Superman (or anyone) was that far above her, I think she would see it as a challenge to be met, not something to just accept.
But that's beside the point.

Among other things, they've could maybe not turned Circe into a comedy character. Or at least, I agree, having Batman get turned into a pig so Diana team up with Zatanna to save him.
Maybe an arc where Queen Clea leads an uprising in Atlantis and Aquaman & Mera turn to the League for assistance and Wonder Woman is critical in defeating her because Clea has stolen Poseidon's Trident and Diana is best suited to dealing with that sort of thing. Osira could appear and offer to join the League, impressing the team with her ability to bring peace wherever she goes, only for Diana to realize she's doing it by taking away people's free will. An arc where Granny Goodness starts kidnapping members of the League to turn them into Female Furies, and Diana leads the rescue mission to save them.

I'm thinking about other ways they could've improved Wonder Woman in Justice League or stories they could've done with her, and something I've realized is the show pretty much robbed her of what unique things she could've brought.
What Diana brings to the table in a team dynamic is the 1) Lasso and its ability to defend against illusions or mind control. 2) Her compassionate nature and instinct to seek the peaceful resolution first. 3) Her exceptional fighting skills and experience.

And she had none of these things in the show.

The biggest offender is the Lasso. Wonder Woman should've been someone ideal for threats like Dr. Destiny and his nightmares, or Ultra-Humanite (or was if Grodd? I don't remember which telepathic ape it was) using his telepathy to turn the League against each other, or Eclipso possessing the team.
The creators said they took away the Lasso's power because it made resolving plots to easy, but that's a crock. It just changes the story. If Starro invades and starts taking over people's minds, Diana's Lasso can defend her and maybe free a few others, but she'd still be significantly outnumbered and need to utilize a different strategy. The Lasso doesn't negate the story, it just demands Diana play a relevant part in it.

Imagine if Dr. Destiny did try to attack her mind with her fears (And Christ, just imagine what fear Timm and co. would've given Diana) and she's able to resist or fight back because of the Lasso. It doesn't ruin the story, it just means she would be one of the heroes bringing about his defeat alongside Batman. If the Lasso could protect her from Eclipso, she AND the Flash could be forced to Die Hard their way around the satellite to save their friends.

But no. The Lasso was just a rope.

They also downplayed her compassionate and diplomatic nature, which could've offered a unique approach to certain opponents and threats. Imagine is she was the one who befriended Solomon Grundy as opposed to Hawkgirl? What if she reached out to her Justice Lord counterpart and tried appealing to her better nature? What if she had realized Amazo wasn't evil and only being misled by Luthor?
When they did finally make her a diplomat, she spent the whole time scowling and rolling her eyes like a child forced to do an unwanted chore.

It occurs to me now that all Wonder Woman ever really did in this show was punch. Seriously, was there a single villain or challenge she encountered throughout the entire show that she didn't resolve by hitting it? Even getting the Black Mercy off Bruce was just brute force ripping it off him. She realized she couldn't beat Ares' war machine only after Dove taught her a lesson about peace.
Was there any example of Wonder Woman overcoming a foe or saving the day in Justice League that involved her ingenuity, actual skills, or cunning? I really can't think of anything she did that didn't involve simple punching.

In fact, I remember an interview with one of the show's developers where they bragged that they always made sure Wonder Woman was fighting the hardest out of everyone. I know they think that proves they treated her with respect and made her appear powerful, but it kind of reveals how little use they had for her. In any given situation or battle, Diana's just in the background punching things while the other heroes actually resolve the plot. They can't think of anything useful to do with her, so just have her punching things in the background or off-screen.

And when there was no punching to be done, she did nothing. When Captain Marvel chewed out the League, she just stood there and looked sad even though she had nothing to do with what happened. I honestly wanted her at some point to say, "Hey, I just got here. What's going on?"
When Batman and Superman were getting pissy with each other over lobotomizing Doomsday and the laser canon in the satellite, did Diana have opinion or thoughts on the conflict? No, she just stood there in silence and looked sad.

Furthermore, did she have ANY opinion on the whole Cadmus/League conflict? Did she suspect they were walking a dangerous line? Did she misunderstand Cadmus's problem with the League because she wasn't around for Superman's brainwashing and therefore lacked context? Did she at any point consider there might be a better solution to the conflict?


Damn, I'm not trying to be negative. And like I said, there were good moments with her, but seriously, the more I think about it, Justice League was an awful depiction of Wonder Woman. Just a one-note, joyless, unpleasant vision of the character. Lacking in warmth except when flirting with Batman and that one scene in the last episode where she hugs Martian Manhunter, and generally stiff and bland to highlight how much more engaging the other characters were.

Looking back on it, it seems the one thing they got right about Diana's character was her passion. She's a fiercely passionate person who truly believes in what she does. But the key thing is where that passion comes from. As said, when written properly, Wonder Woman's passion comes from a "Yes, I can!" attitude. Her passion is her idealistic belief in seeing the best in people.
The creators of Justice League, however, made her passion come from a "But I'm right!" attitude. Look back on Rich Fogel's comment where he zeroes in on the fact she's royalty. So we got a pompous, aloof Wonder Woman who does what she does because she's entitled and sneers when people don't do what she says.

All good points. Some episodes don’t even have to be changed that much, they could have swapped out all the nobodies in that Aresia episode with Villiany Inc, not like the characters they did use were that fleshed out to begin with.