Why was DCAU WW portrayed so badly?

[phonogram12]

A WW that is able to "defeat" Darkseid by talking him into peace is HUGE. She did more than Superman or Batman have been able to do with a villain.

That's a really good point. I'm really enjoying this series so far.

[Agent Z]

So....I'm curious about people's thoughts regarding the latest issue of Justice League Infinity, where we get a Diana/Darkseid focused story. I'll let the cover do the talking:

Attachment 114571

Kinda surprised they went there with these two. They barely interacted during Darkseid's two appearances following the formation of the League. This is a continuation of the DCAU canon, though the stories focus mostly on the multiverse concept.

Anyone read it?

I didn't care for it and found it borderline if not outright sexist.

[LifeIsILL]

Bruce Timm probably didn't know much about Wonder Woman.....most people don't.

[WonderLight789]

Bruce Timm probably didn't know much about Wonder Woman.....most people don't.

As if that could be a good look for somebody with his career resume. Didn't even bother to make research? And he was well aware of Marston WW and Lynda WW. Which is a very well known version and far better developed than his DCAU WW version. On top of that there are classic comic stories and hit movies about the character. So the card ''most people don't know much about her'' doesn't work.

[WonderLight789]

It is pretty safe to say. That a animated WW based on DCAU wouldn't be the tea. As we sqaw with the latest movie based on that verse. The people behind DCAU still don't get WW and don't care about her. All they did was added a sword to her and still have her acting aggressively all the time. Not even the 2017 movie ws enoough to help them with getting a better undestanding of WW.

[Vishop]

I don't think people care so much about power levels in these 'cartoon' show for characters. They were all nerfed badly. I can understand if people have problems with Diana's characterization but to be honest I haven't had too much experience of 'good' characterization in her adaptations either.

[bardkeep]

Idk if it counts as the DCAU because it’s out of universe but I thought Diana’s depiction in the Red Son adaptation was pretty good - certainly a lot better than it was in the comic. Still don’t love that she was inexplicably caught by Batman as a plot device (even tbe writers seemed to recognize that it was weird because they didn’t even show it happening on camera) and the number of “men bad” lines was kinda corny and heavy-handed, but I was very happy that they got rid of the crush on Superman that basically served as her only motivation and I absolutely love that they made her unambiguously gay. She was an actual character with agency and unique values and chose to leave man’s world at the end on her own accord rather than being forced to do it after saving Superman permanently zapped her powers. Plus the overall characterization and voice acting were solid and they didn’t make her super aggressive or the irrational foil to Superman or Batman’s voice of reason.

And re: the nerfing issue, in general I’m not that bothered by it if every character is nerfed equally and for the most part that seemed to be the case in JLU. I’m mostly just bothered by writers nerfing her to make another, almost always male character look better, which unfortunately happens a lot. My main beef with the main DCAU Diana is that she’s uncharacteristically aggro/hot-headed and diminished by her schoolgirl crush on Batman and I don’t love the Hades’ daughter origin, but at least the voice acting and character design are good and they didn’t make her a generic sword-wielding warrior. Certainly not a bad enough version to make me lose faith in an animated series.

[godisawesome]

Bruce Timm probably didn't know much about Wonder Woman.....most people don't.

As if that could be a good look for somebody with his career resume. Didn't even bother to make research? And he was well aware of Marston WW and Lynda WW. Which is a very well known version and far better developed than his DCAU WW version. On top of that there are classic comic stories and hit movies about the character. So the card ''most people don't know much about her'' doesn't work.

Yeah, I feel like it’s more an anomaly that’s a bit damning for Timm, considering the type of stuff that BTAS, STAS, and JL got up to with other, sometimes obscure properties. And it conforms a bit to weak spots he has with a lot of female characters (most infamously with Barbara Gordon) - it’s just that, given how important Wonder Woman is, it can be a bit more glaring.

His Wonder Woman isn’t just lackluster compared to Batman and Superman, but to the other League members as well, even the ones they heavily repackaged.

[hareluyafan1]

The only time she ever said anything close to 'man hating' was when Grodd was psychically manipulating the League members into being more confrontational with each other.

Beg your pardon but Grodd himself stated that all he did was make the League members say what they actually felt. He didn't put anything into their psyches that wasn't already there. He just opened the door that let their resentments out.

So what WW said in that episode came entirely from her. That was how she really felt.

[BiteTheBullet]

Idk if it counts as the DCAU because it’s out of universe but I thought Diana’s depiction in the Red Son adaptation was pretty good - certainly a lot better than it was in the comic. Still don’t love that she was inexplicably caught by Batman as a plot device (even tbe writers seemed to recognize that it was weird because they didn’t even show it happening on camera) and the number of “men bad” lines was kinda corny and heavy-handed, but I was very happy that they got rid of the crush on Superman that basically served as her only motivation and I absolutely love that they made her unambiguously gay. She was an actual character with agency and unique values and chose to leave man’s world at the end on her own accord rather than being forced to do it after saving Superman permanently zapped her powers. Plus the overall characterization and voice acting were solid and they didn’t make her super aggressive or the irrational foil to Superman or Batman’s voice of reason.

And re: the nerfing issue, in general I’m not that bothered by it if every character is nerfed equally and for the most part that seemed to be the case in JLU. I’m mostly just bothered by writers nerfing her to make another, almost always male character look better, which unfortunately happens a lot. My main beef with the main DCAU Diana is that she’s uncharacteristically aggro/hot-headed and diminished by her schoolgirl crush on Batman and I don’t love the Hades’ daughter origin, but at least the voice acting and character design are good and they didn’t make her a generic sword-wielding warrior. Certainly not a bad enough version to make me lose faith in an animated series.

Actually, if every character is nerfed, then someone like Batman will further cement his status as the Batgod, given the fact he is supposed to be a normal human. All the other superheroes will be closer to him then they already are.

[Gaius]

Idk if it counts as the DCAU because it’s out of universe but I thought Diana’s depiction in the Red Son adaptation was pretty good - certainly a lot better than it was in the comic. Still don’t love that she was inexplicably caught by Batman as a plot device (even tbe writers seemed to recognize that it was weird because they didn’t even show it happening on camera) and the number of “men bad” lines was kinda corny and heavy-handed, but I was very happy that they got rid of the crush on Superman that basically served as her only motivation and I absolutely love that they made her unambiguously gay. She was an actual character with agency and unique values and chose to leave man’s world at the end on her own accord rather than being forced to do it after saving Superman permanently zapped her powers. Plus the overall characterization and voice acting were solid and they didn’t make her super aggressive or the irrational foil to Superman or Batman’s voice of reason.

And re: the nerfing issue, in general I’m not that bothered by it if every character is nerfed equally and for the most part that seemed to be the case in JLU. I’m mostly just bothered by writers nerfing her to make another, almost always male character look better, which unfortunately happens a lot. My main beef with the main DCAU Diana is that she’s uncharacteristically aggro/hot-headed and diminished by her schoolgirl crush on Batman and I don’t love the Hades’ daughter origin, but at least the voice acting and character design are good and they didn’t make her a generic sword-wielding warrior. Certainly not a bad enough version to make me lose faith in an animated series.

It was a fairly pleasant surprise, even with the bar for Wonder Woman in Elseworlds and animation being pretty low.

[Rightoya]

And re: the nerfing issue, in general I’m not that bothered by it if every character is nerfed equally and for the most part that seemed to be the case in JLU. I’m mostly just bothered by writers nerfing her to make another, almost always male character look better, which unfortunately happens a lot.

That has sadly also in a way happened in the DCAU, Wonder Woman and Superman both started equally nerfed, but Superman was more powerful in his own series already and became also more powerful over time in the Justice League series, and to a much bigger degree than Wonder Woman. And other characters like especially Flash were also far less nerfed than Wonder Woman, it started in general relatively even in Justice League, but during the time of Justice League Unlimited she was 1 of the most nerfed of them all already which got additionally highlighted by one of the biggest upgrades she got was that her lasso gained its literal core power.

[Rightoya]

I don't think people care so much about power levels in these 'cartoon' show for characters. They were all nerfed badly. I can understand if people have problems with Diana's characterization but to be honest I haven't had too much experience of 'good' characterization in her adaptations either.

It is a bit different for Wonder Woman, because she is 1 of DC's favourite victims of getting nerfed especially to make others and specifically Superman and Batman look better, and even in ways that she somehow lacks her core powers. And her characterization in the DCAU was not just awfully bland, but had the added Batman fangirl trash, and her villains and anything else related to her were just terrible too.

And re: the nerfing issue, in general I’m not that bothered by it if every character is nerfed equally and for the most part that seemed to be the case in JLU. I’m mostly just bothered by writers nerfing her to make another, almost always male character look better, which unfortunately happens a lot.

That has sadly also in a way happened in the DCAU, Wonder Woman and Superman both started equally nerfed, but Superman was more powerful in his own series already and became also more powerful over time in the Justice League series, and to a much bigger degree than Wonder Woman. And other characters like especially Flash were also far less nerfed than Wonder Woman, it started in general relatively even in Justice League, but during the time of Justice League Unlimited she was 1 of the most nerfed of them all already which got additionally highlighted because 1 of the biggest upgrades she got was that her lasso finally gained its literal core power.

[BiteTheBullet]

That has sadly also in a way happened in the DCAU, Wonder Woman and Superman both started equally nerfed, but Superman was more powerful in his own series already and became also more powerful over time in the Justice League series, and to a much bigger degree than Wonder Woman. And other characters like especially Flash were also far less nerfed than Wonder Woman, it started in general relatively even in Justice League, but during the time of Justice League Unlimited she was 1 of the most nerfed of them all already which got additionally highlighted by one of the biggest upgrades she got was that her lasso gained its literal core power.

And we can all remember her 'great' showing against Kalibak, and then Superman stating that said villain Kalibak couldn't have taken on Batman after she got flattened/punked by him.

Fans were complaining about Supes power levels throughout the show until Timm and company realized this and gave him the power boost later in the show. His dealing with Doomsday one on one in the volcano is an example, and also the speech he gave that everything is like paper or glass, or something to that effect when he took on Darkseid one on one.

All we got with Wonder Woman is her status as a 2nd tier level player. She couldn't even decisively beat Aquaman on land. Seems to be a recurring theme with her.

[hareluyafan1]

And we can all remember her 'great' showing against Kalibak, and then Superman stating that said villain Kalibak couldn't have taken on Batman after she got flattened/punked by him.

Yep.

Fans were complaining about Supes power levels throughout the show until Timm and company realized this and gave him the power boost later in the show. His dealing with Doomsday one on one in the volcano is an example, and also the speech he gave that everything is like paper or glass, or something to that effect when he took on Darkseid one on one.

Close. He said he felt like he lived in a world made of cardboard. Personally I find it funny how people treat that as some great triumphant moment when you consider how the fight ended; Darkseid whips out his agony matrix, zaps Superman with it and is about to kill him. Superman lost the fight and needed Luthor of all people to step in and save him

All we got with Wonder Woman is her status as a 2nd tier level player. She couldn't even decisively beat Aquaman on land. Seems to be a recurring theme with her.

Very true.