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  1. #31

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    It was made for basically anyone who will watch it. You had action and humor that would appeal to kids while also incorporating more adult jokes and themes that only adults would get. It also meant that those same kids would picks up on those more adult jokes and themes when they came of age thus the shows maintain an enduring popularity. This is not particular to the DCAU, nearly all Western Animation works like this. That's why you have grown millenials saying that 'as a kid you relate to Spongebob but as an adult you relate Squidward the most'.

  2. #32

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    I wouldn't be a WW fan today if it weren't for the show and I still hear Susan Eisenberg's voice when I read WW comics. I agree that some things could have been done better. I wasn't knowledgeable about WW when I first watched it so maybe that helped. Still, there are elements of that iteration which I enjoyed; Diana time traveling to WW2 and her romance with Steve Trevor, the friendship with Audrey and her conflict with Vandal Savage, she had great chemistry with Batman even if people didn't like the romance, the design and voice of Circe, the all girls fight and Diana being the one to finish off Mongul by slapping him with the Black Mercy (Yes I know she was getting her ass kicked earlier but Superman didn't fare that much better against Mongul either).

  3. #33
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy_McNichts View Post
    It was consistently rated Y7 which would denote it was at the very least made with seven year olds in mind.
    Attachment 111450
    Definitely a Y7 show, but the show creators were very much in touch with the older viewers who would post online. I think the Y7 was just there so that the show could be safely marketed with the toy line, but the content really was closer to T. I mean, the show featured a double-murder and suicide in one episode. I always had this theory that whoever rated the show Y7 wasn't really paying attention, especially in later seasons. Maybe they stamped Y7 early and didn't bother reviewing for content.

    Maybe if we search the Internet Archive we can find old CN website material for the show back from 2002, but I'd agree it was marketed for kids. I just wouldn't agree it was exclusively for kids.

    Also, the squabbling with Hawkgirl was a poor creative choice. Might've been worse than her fangirling over Batman.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    I wouldn't be a WW fan today if it weren't for the show and I still hear Susan Eisenberg's voice when I read WW comics. I agree that some things could have been done better. I wasn't knowledgeable about WW when I first watched it so maybe that helped. Still, there are elements of that iteration which I enjoyed; Diana time traveling to WW2 and her romance with Steve Trevor, the friendship with Audrey and her conflict with Vandal Savage, she had great chemistry with Batman even if people didn't like the romance, the design and voice of Circe, the all girls fight and Diana being the one to finish off Mongul by slapping him with the Black Mercy (Yes I know she was getting her ass kicked earlier but Superman didn't fare that much better against Mongul either).
    I'd say he did far better than Diana. Mongul even states he was terrified Superman would kill him. The fight completely turns in the heroes' favor once Superman wakes up.

    DCAU Diana isn't my favorite version of Diana but there are worse versions.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 07-14-2021 at 12:29 PM.

  5. #35

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    Mongul was also depicted as very arrogant and misogynistic. Even though he claimed that Superman was the only who could stop him, the League had Captain Atom, Supergirl, Orion, Big Barda, Martian Manhunter and even Waverider among it's ranks. Kind of hard to believe that none of them, either individually or together could have stopped Mongul. I think his ego was just bruised from his first defeat that he tried to convince himself and others that Superman was just that powerful but everyone else was ants to him. I wouldn't take his words too literally.

    The Superman vs Mongul is one of my favorite fights in JLU and I've re-watched it a lot of times. I noticed how, during those re watches that even though Superman had the upper hand during the beginning of the fight, Mongul actually did really well several times during the fight. He even gained the upper hand over Superman after the latter burned his chest with heat vision. Mongul may have taken a hell of a beating but he wasn't outclassed.

  6. #36
    Astonishing Member WonderLight789's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    Mongul was also depicted as very arrogant and misogynistic. Even though he claimed that Superman was the only who could stop him, the League had Captain Atom, Supergirl, Orion, Big Barda, Martian Manhunter and even Waverider among it's ranks. Kind of hard to believe that none of them, either individually or together could have stopped Mongul. I think his ego was just bruised from his first defeat that he tried to convince himself and others that Superman was just that powerful but everyone else was ants to him. I wouldn't take his words too literally.

    The Superman vs Mongul is one of my favorite fights in JLU and I've re-watched it a lot of times. I noticed how, during those re watches that even though Superman had the upper hand during the beginning of the fight, Mongul actually did really well several times during the fight. He even gained the upper hand over Superman after the latter burned his chest with heat vision. Mongul may have taken a hell of a beating but he wasn't outclassed.
    That fight was based on a Bronze Age comic. Where WW also get stomped. Because the poor girl has kept getting weaker in every new era of comics since Marston died. She also got trashed easily by mongul in a sensational comic recently. And that is her own title. So WW being treated as a weaklink is nothing new, even her own writers portray her as such nowadays. She is just pathetic now. Doesn't deserve to be considered a feminist icon and girl power figure anymore.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    I wouldn't be a WW fan today if it weren't for the show and I still hear Susan Eisenberg's voice when I read WW comics. I agree that some things could have been done better. I wasn't knowledgeable about WW when I first watched it so maybe that helped. Still, there are elements of that iteration which I enjoyed; Diana time traveling to WW2 and her romance with Steve Trevor, the friendship with Audrey and her conflict with Vandal Savage, she had great chemistry with Batman even if people didn't like the romance, the design and voice of Circe, the all girls fight and Diana being the one to finish off Mongul by slapping him with the Black Mercy (Yes I know she was getting her ass kicked earlier but Superman didn't fare that much better against Mongul either).
    Well in fairness, some that comes with the nature of adaptation the story where Wonder Woman was getting tossed around in the original Moore story and also probably hearing the groans of pain rather than just looking a static comic image. And like you said, she gets the final blow on him with the Black Mercy because Robin was off the table, so decent trade-off. (though I wouldn't be surprised if Timm wanted Batman to do it ).

    Though I also didn't really care for Moore's use of WW in the original story.

  8. #38
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Pre-Crisis Mongul is someone who pre-Crisis Earth-1 Superman (the most powerful iteration of the character) had never been able to definitively defeat before that story. The previous times he even had assistance from Supergirl and the Legion of Superheroes and it still ended in draws. And he didn't definitively defeat Mongul in that story either- Mongul got the best of him before the story even starts, and he gets distracted and misses his chance later, and Jason has to save the day.

    I don't care for Moore's exact execution of the fight vs WW, but her losing is pretty much a given for a Superman centric story during pre-Crisis power levels against a villain who was kind of a big deal despite his few appearances up to that point. I think having her deliver the Black Mercy blow is the one improvement the DCAU ever made in the transition to screen for her though.

  9. #39
    Astonishing Member WonderLight789's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Pre-Crisis Mongul is someone who pre-Crisis Earth-1 Superman (the most powerful iteration of the character) had never been able to definitively defeat before that story. The previous times he even had assistance from Supergirl and the Legion of Superheroes and it still ended in draws. And he didn't definitively defeat Mongul in that story either- Mongul got the best of him before the story even starts, and he gets distracted and misses his chance later, and Jason has to save the day.

    I don't care for Moore's exact execution of the fight vs WW, but her losing is pretty much a given for a Superman centric story during pre-Crisis power levels against a villain who was kind of a big deal despite his few appearances up to that point. I think having her deliver the Black Mercy blow is the one improvement the DCAU ever made in the transition to screen for her though.
    That is the thing. When it comes to others like superman. DC and WB will make sure to respect their classics more including respecting power levels. With WW, they will always throw her under the bus more often than not. And treat her as a punching bag to make other characters shine.

  10. #40
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    My thoughts on DCAU Wonder Woman:

    Wonder Woman was judgemental and hot-headed on men when she wasn't portrayed that way in the comics. She's supposed to be compassionate, loving, and wise.

    Diana should be adventurous and curious about man's world since she has been sheltered and isolated on Themyscira. She shouldn't have Batman as her boyfriend.

    Wonder Woman was portrayed as a diplomat in the episode "To Another Shore" only once.

    She used the lasso of truth only one time by making a demon confess where Hades was in Tartarus.

    Used her tiara as a boomerang on Justice Lords Wonder Woman one time.

  11. #41
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystical41 View Post
    That is the thing. When it comes to others like superman. DC and WB will make sure to respect their classics more including respecting power levels. With WW, they will always throw her under the bus more often than not. And treat her as a punching bag to make other characters shine.
    The thing is they didn't respect Superman's power level in the DCAU until Batman Beyond (when he was the villain), and then not again until Season 2. It's not like they were pumping out great Superman stories, IMO, for much of DCAU.

    The big difference, though, was that they tried to improve Superman's writing. I think they eventually improved WW's writing, but you had to suffer through a lot of mediocrity first, and the improved WW still wasn't all that good.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystical41 View Post
    That fight was based on a Bronze Age comic. Where WW also get stomped. Because the poor girl has kept getting weaker in every new era of comics since Marston died. She also got trashed easily by mongul in a sensational comic recently. And that is her own title. So WW being treated as a weaklink is nothing new, even her own writers portray her as such nowadays. She is just pathetic now. Doesn't deserve to be considered a feminist icon and girl power figure anymore.
    Since when does being overpowered by Mongul mean someone is a weakling?

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Since when does being overpowered by Mongul mean someone is a weakling?
    When it's their only contribution to the story.

  14. #44
    Astonishing Member WonderLight789's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Since when does being overpowered by Mongul mean someone is a weakling?
    Since that is the only purpose that WW served in that episode, in that show(and in many comics too). Getting stomped by a Superman related character to show how big of a deal Superman and his lore are. While WW is nothing special in comparison. Just like in sensation comic. A WW title where not that long ago, we had another story where mongul easily trashed WW. And she needed Artemis to cause some distraction so they could run away before getting killed by him.

  15. #45
    Astonishing Member WonderLight789's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    The thing is they didn't respect Superman's power level in the DCAU until Batman Beyond (when he was the villain), and then not again until Season 2. It's not like they were pumping out great Superman stories, IMO, for much of DCAU.

    The big difference, though, was that they tried to improve Superman's writing. I think they eventually improved WW's writing, but you had to suffer through a lot of mediocrity first, and the improved WW still wasn't all that good.
    They respected him far more than WW that is for sure. And when the push camed to shove. They still showed SM as the top gun of the team. WW was fodder for any of the top threats in that show. That never changed in the whole show. So i don't know what improvement you are talking about, i didn't see any.

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