Human Target by Tom King and Greg Smallwood

[M@Bowers2014]

And it warps them to fit in that mold instead of presenting them as they are. You could have had them in character and still be a Human Target story.

It could be argued that those characters were warped to fit the JLI book back in the day. None of them acted that way before that book. You can't expect characters like these, ones that aren't used often, to be the same as they were in a book from 30 plus years ago. Furthermore if King had instead made a new character with ice powers people would have complained that he didn't use Ice instead. I'm not saying you have to like the book but you also don't have to look for excuses and try to convince others to hate it too.

[RJT]

It could be argued that those characters were warped to fit the JLI book back in the day. None of them acted that way before that book. You can't expect characters like these, ones that aren't used often, to be the same as they were in a book from 30 plus years ago. Furthermore if King had instead made a new character with ice powers people would have complained that he didn't use Ice instead. I'm not saying you have to like the book but you also don't have to look for excuses and try to convince others to hate it too.

This is a really good point. I’ve been a huge JLI fan for over thirty years, but there is no question that Giffen and DeMatteis warped a lot of those characters to fit their story. Read any pre-JLI Ted Kord appearance and tell me that’s the same character that Giffen/DeMatteis used.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

This is a really good point. I’ve been a huge JLI fan for over thirty years, but there is no question that Giffen and DeMatteis warped a lot of those characters to fit their story. Read any pre-JLI Ted Kord appearance and tell me that’s the same character that Giffen/DeMatteis used.

Yeah, no argument there. Giffen & DeMatties absolutely warped their characters to fit the superhero sitcom they were making.

I guess my main issue was that I didn’t find King’s noir versions of the JLI particularly compelling. Outside of the art, I didn’t find much to enjoy in the writing or plot.

But that art. Sweet baby Jesus, that is some beautiful art.

[Mantis-Ray]

Yeah, no argument there. Giffen & DeMatties absolutely warped their characters to fit the superhero sitcom they were making.

I guess my main issue was that I didn’t find King’s noir versions of the JLI particularly compelling. Outside of the art, I didn’t find much to enjoy in the writing or plot.

But that art. Sweet baby Jesus, that is some beautiful art.

Say what you will about King but he is a fantastic collaborator. He manages to get all these fantastic artists working with him and lets them go hog wild with their gorgeous art.

Smallwood really deserves more work.

[HsssH]

Really at this point my bar for Kings' portrayal of characters is "did they commit war crimes or mass murder?"

To be fair Terrific got a good showing in Strange Adventures.

[Frontier]

To be fair Terrific got a good showing in Strange Adventures.

Yeah, but that was at another characters' expense and he wasn't even billed as the main character.

Like, I love Michael, but I don't think I needed to see Adam Strange get dragged through the mud to prop him up.

[M@Bowers2014]

Yeah, no argument there. Giffen & DeMatties absolutely warped their characters to fit the superhero sitcom they were making.

I guess my main issue was that I didn’t find King’s noir versions of the JLI particularly compelling. Outside of the art, I didn’t find much to enjoy in the writing or plot.

But that art. Sweet baby Jesus, that is some beautiful art.

The art was amazing. Luckily I liked the story too but I feel for those that bought it for the art but didn't like the story.

[LordUltimus]

It could be argued that those characters were warped to fit the JLI book back in the day. None of them acted that way before that book. You can't expect characters like these, ones that aren't used often, to be the same as they were in a book from 30 plus years ago.

Um, why not? Yes characters acted differently there, and it even did some serious damage to them (coughTedKordcough) but it never took it to the "this character is now an underhanded murderer" extent. And comics have been writing a whole lot of characters for decades and keeping them recognizable.

Furthermore if King had instead made a new character with ice powers people would have complained that he didn't use Ice instead.

Considering how many times I've seen people who say this turn around and go "okay, now I see why they didn't use this character, I highly doubt that.

I'm not saying you have to like the book but you also don't have to look for excuses and try to convince others to hate it too.

Please show me where I said "Everyone should hate this book".

[phonogram12]

It could be argued that those characters were warped to fit the JLI book back in the day. None of them acted that way before that book. You can't expect characters like these, ones that aren't used often, to be the same as they were in a book from 30 plus years ago. Furthermore if King had instead made a new character with ice powers people would have complained that he didn't use Ice instead. I'm not saying you have to like the book but you also don't have to look for excuses and try to convince others to hate it too.

Facts.

10 characters.

[Riv86672]

I guess my main issue was that I didn’t find King’s noir versions of the JLI particularly compelling. Outside of the art, I didn’t find much to enjoy in the writing or plot.

^^^This for me.
This wasn’t the book I was hoping to get. It wasn’t fun, adventurous, or even interesting.
Only reason I stuck it out is I’m a completist.

[comictimes]

Finally read this issue. I gotta say, as beautifully as this is drawn, it continues to basically be a riff on DOA and nobody's voice really sounds like them.

King is capable of great work, but he's being carried by Smallwood. As it is, this book is occupied by a bunch of original characters who are nothing like the people they resemble.

They killed Guy and Ice is insisting they're still heroes. Sure, people are lying to each other in this book, but Tora would never be this together after killing Guy of all people. Fire wouldn't be this non-plussed that Ice killed anyone, let alone Guy (even if she usually doesn't like Guy).

Yeesh.




I keep telling myself I'm done with this book, but then that Smallwood art somehow lures it into my stack at the shop every month and I'm so angry about it.

It's been mentioned in passing, but it should be noted that this wasn't what it looked like. I hope you're less angry about it now.

[j9ac9k]

I enjoyed this series as an Elseworlds but it could have been told in 4-6 issues. I think if King had paced it more like a movie, it would have been more satisfying. We didn't need a whole issue for every member of the JLI and the relationship between Ice and Chance didn't needed that many issues to flesh out, as it was pretty standard film noir femme fatale stuff.

[CaptCleghorn]

I enjoyed this series as an Elseworlds but it could have been told in 4-6 issues. I think if King had paced it more like a movie, it would have been more satisfying. We didn't need a whole issue for every member of the JLI and the relationship between Ice and Chance didn't needed that many issues to flesh out, as it was pretty standard film noir femme fatale stuff.

King has a habit of placing events into each of 12 issues. HT was based simply on days, but in Rorschach, it was more character examination. The structure give each issue a separate story. This works well to go with the single issue buying, but often each issue doesn't have enough material to properly fill it.

[Pohzee]

I was late to reading this story but read it as a whole in collected editions. Beautiful art, but it seems very greedy to me for such a talented creative team to use the rich and established history of the DCU as the trappings for their story without building upon it. Future writers won't be able to come back to reference or build upon it, so even though King and Smallwood get to use other authors work as a shortcut to add a depth and richness to their story, no one else will be able to do anything else with this. It's a dead end. I think with a little work this story could've kept the same beats and atmosphere and still put its toys back into the box, so to speak.

[Mantis-Ray]

I was late to reading this story but read it as a whole in collected editions. Beautiful art, but it seems very greedy to me for such a talented creative team to use the rich and established history of the DCU as the trappings for their story without building upon it. Future writers won't be able to come back to reference or build upon it, so even though King and Smallwood get to use other authors work as a shortcut to add a depth and richness to their story, no one else will be able to do anything else with this. It's a dead end. I think with a little work this story could've kept the same beats and atmosphere and still put its toys back into the box, so to speak.

Its a standalone AU story though.

Its just the creative team telling a story with a beginning and an end. Its not supposed to be followed up on, Black Label stories aren't in-continuity stories. The point is allowing them do whatever they want without the trappings of the primary universe.