The Meh Men (And Women) - Open Nominations

[John Venus]

Think I'll have to go with Giovanni Zatara. Nothing really wrong with him just his daughter is a more interesting character and I think besides dying or disappearing the most notable thing one can say about him is he debuted in the same issue as Superman.

Now THAT'S an interesting pick. Zatara has definitely been better written since he died then he ever was while he was alive (it's amazing what an iconic Alan Moore death will do for you). But yeah, this one might be a keeper.

I feel like I should disagree but I can't figured out why exactly. Maybe you're not wrong. If Zatanna didn't exist, Zatara probably would have disappeared into the ether like all the other Mandrake the Magician knock offs. Sargon died at the table too but Zatara's death is constantly brought up and mourned because of Zee's existence. YJ made him a member of the JL and turned him into their Dr Fate. Yet, I don't think having him usurp what was basically his daughter's spot on the League in the comics was the best use of the character and with Dr. Fate, I would rather they used a character from the comics who was already Dr Fate. I think not using Linda and Eric Strauss Fate was a missed opportunity for YJ. I know I'm in the minority with this opinion and that's okay.

The most meh original JSA Character is probably Mr. Terrific (the Terry Sloan Version).

Seconded.

[batnbreakfast]

While we round out the voting on the Hated 8 (8 DC Super-Heroes that almost no one likes - Now In Team Form!), I thought it would be fun to start creating a team of "meh" heroes. What makes a hero eligible for "meh" status, you may ask?

1. They have to be a hero. No villains.
2. They have to have been around for a while. Lots of appearances.
3. For whatever reason, they don't really seem to have ever had a great story written about them. Or even any particularly good ones.
4. They're not hated (at least not universally), and may even be well-liked (more or less), but they're just sort of... there.
5. They've never really had a moment of awesome (death scenes don't count... if your death scene isn't awesome, it's possible that you suck).

In short, the Meh Men will be a team of heroes that, for whatever reason, have never really shined, despite years (and sometimes decades) of opportunities.

I'll pitch a few nominees:

Al Pratt, the Golden Age Atom
Founding member of the JSA. Three different legacy heroes. Been around forever. But really, has poor Al Pratt ever been cool? He didn't get invited to the JSA revival in the 70's, and when they decided to let Extant kill off a few JSAers during Zero Hour, there he was at the top of the list. He had one possible moment of glory, taking a spear meant for FDR, but even that raised a lot of questions. Al deserves his long-deferred shot at awsomesauce.

Cassie Sandsmark, Wonder Gir
Cassie Sandsmark has been around for 25 years now, first as a poor man's Vanessa Kapatelis, then eventually as her generation's Wonder Girl. And although there's nothing wrong with her character, I'd be hard-pressed to think of any awesome moments for her (in the comics... the Young Justice cartoon is another thing altogether). Her identity is too often tied up with being the girlfriend of either Tim or Conner, and her squishy origins don't help. Frankly, she was at her best in her earliest PAD Young Justice days, but even then she was primarily an adjunct to the three main male characters. She desperately needs to break free of those guys and forge her own identity in a team that won't overshadow her.

Sun Boy
The Legion of Super-Heroes has a, um, legion of distinct characters with outsized personalities crafted to make them stand out. But poor Dirk never has seemed to get the TLC that other characters have gotten, despite the fact that he's been around forever. He's not hated enough by writers to be cast away (Tyroc) or killed (Karate Kid), but he's not loved enough to repeatedly focus on (Ultra Boy). He's just there, with his loosely defined character traits (womanizing narcissist?) sort of hanging in the breeze the 5YL writers gave him a tragic extended death arc, but that was too little too late, I say. Until I looked it up, I was convinced that Bendis hadn't even included a Sun Boy in his reboot, 'cause I have no memory of him appearing. The poor guy needs a trip to the 21st century to hand with a team that won't eclipse him (see what I did there?)

Any other nominees?

Are you a millenial?

[sunofdarkchild]

Tim Drake was great when he was the 'normal' Robin with a father and a school life. He's been meh ever since they killed off his father and got rid of most of his supporting cast to make him another tragic Robin and a mini-Batman. The reboot should have fixed him by putting him back with his father and back in school but did neither and instead erased the history his fans were still holding on to. He has no reason to exist other than DC thinks his fanbase is too large to write him out entirely.

[Gaius]

I feel like I should disagree but I can't figured out why exactly. Maybe you're not wrong. If Zatanna didn't exist, Zatara probably would have disappeared into the ether like all the other Mandrake the Magician knock offs. Sargon died at the table too but Zatara's death is constantly brought up and mourned because of Zee's existence. YJ made him a member of the JL and turned him into their Dr Fate. Yet, I don't think having him usurp what was basically his daughter's spot on the League in the comics was the best use of the character and with Dr. Fate, I would rather they used a character from the comics who was already Dr Fate. I think not using Linda and Eric Strauss Fate was a missed opportunity for YJ. I know I'm in the minority with this opinion and that's okay.

I like him well enough so I didn't like nominating him but he was the first one who came to mind since like what's been brought up if Zee didn't exist, or was the daughter of another magic user, I doubt much would get use out of him since most nowadays relates to him being dead/gone and how that effects Zatanna in the present.

[ducklord]

I'll just leave it at this, this thread is a bad idea, and Cassie Sandsmark has never been bad. Maybe you just don't like normal teenage girls.

This thread could very well be a bad idea, I'll grant that

And I agree that Cassie's never been a bad character. She's got oodles of potential. Like Tim Drake, she pro-actively sought out a life of super-herodom, and now she regularly hangs with Amazons, super-heroes, and gods. That's cool.

But how often has she been given a story that lives up to her potential? Where is the story that you can point to that will turn people into a Cassie fan?

The problem with certain characters isn't that they're bad characters/bad ideas, it's just that they kind of putter along, typically in team books, never really getting *the* story that makes them shine. A "Who is Donna Troy?" or a "Tenzil for the Defense." Characters that never get solo books, or memorable mini-series.

And hey, I could very well be wrong about Cassie. That's what message boards are for - ridiculous conversations about fictional characters.

[ducklord]

I was thinking of Halo from the Outsiders. She has not a great story and with the background she should had more impact. Also, she always has used the worse costumes.
Now, I think several of the outsiders also fall in the "meh" category, except Black Lightning, Katana and Metamorpho.

I've been thinking a lot about the classic Outsiders with regards to this category. The only problem I have with adding any of them to this list is that, while they were being published, Barr took great pains to give every one of them their moments in the sun. None of them ever faded into the background. All of them had a distinctive voice. Their individual fandom/derision was earned via storytelling.

Of course, post-Outsiders, Halo seems to have dropped of the face of the DCU entirely. Of the original creations, only Geo-Force seems to keep popping up with any regularity, and in his case it's mostly because DC wants to play "how can we eff with Markovia THIS year?"

So meh? Maybe not.

[ducklord]

I don't think the Dr Mid-Nite brand is getting meh anytime soon. The idea of a doctor turned superhero who is also blind is a unique enough concept which DC hasn't really capitalized on.

The brand is fine. But the original character? Here's how memorable he was - they replaced him with a guy with the exact same (highly unlikely) schtick, and people seem to love him more than the original. That's not a sign of a guy who was rattling the collective consciousness of the multiverse.

I like Hector and Lyta but the number of fans I've met of them can be counted on one hand.

Mehness isn't really about fan count. It's more about "have these guys eve been given a chance to stick out/do something cool."

Lyta killed Morpheus. I mean, that's kind of major.

Hector - ye gods, I hated that guy back in the Infinity Inc. days. But he's had *such* a ludicrous character arc over the decades that you can't say that he hasn't had enough focus over the years. And even though it was retconned to heck by Gaiman, the issue in which he took on the mantle of the Bronze Age Sandman was wonderfully goofy.

Of all the Infinitors, I'd say that Northwind is probably the biggest candidate for "meh" status... the character is practically living wallpaper. But he's probably disqualified by the fact that I'm pretty sure he hasn't appeared anywhere in the DCU for at least a decade.

[ducklord]

The most meh original JSA Character is probably Mr. Terrific (the Terry Sloan Version).

The difficulty of assigning this status to Terry Sloane is twofold:

1) Before his death, the character was practically an asterisk in JSA history. He frankly didn't accumulate enough panel time to stand out (or not stand out).
2) Since his death, it seems that every new flashback story with Terry makes him more and more interesting. Arguably, death was the best thing that ever happened to the character.

[ducklord]

Are you a millenial?

I am quite old, in fact. That's why most of my initial picks are characters I've liked for decades, but nevertheless feel have never gotten the "great" story they deserve.

[ducklord]

Tim Drake was great when he was the 'normal' Robin with a father and a school life. He's been meh ever since they killed off his father and got rid of most of his supporting cast to make him another tragic Robin and a mini-Batman. The reboot should have fixed him by putting him back with his father and back in school but did neither and instead erased the history his fans were still holding on to. He has no reason to exist other than DC thinks his fanbase is too large to write him out entirely.

That is a sentiment I can cosign. Tim Drake has been coasting on nostalgia (which is a weird thing to say about the THIRD Robin) for a while now.

[SiegePerilous02]

Definite Tim. I don't think he's an unlikeable character or terrible, he's just kind of dull.

As a little kid I grew up with him on TNBA, but that was more Jason with Tim's name, and even before that I had Dick on BTAS and the movies. So Dick is first and foremost "my" Robin. By the time I started following the mainstream comics on a monthly basis he was getting replaced with Damian. Even his pre-Identity Crisis origin and setup don't seem too interesting to me. Dick, Jason and Damian all have things about them that make them stand out more.

[Zero Hunter]

The most meh original JSA Character is probably Mr. Terrific (the Terry Sloan Version).

I think the only time Terry Sloan has been interesting is in the Earth 2 book where they made him kind of schemer.

[Aahz]

Of course, post-Outsiders, Halo seems to have dropped of the face of the DCU entirely. Of the original creations, only Geo-Force seems to keep popping up with any regularity, and in his case it's mostly because DC wants to play "how can we eff with Markovia THIS year?"

I think Katana appears more frequently than Geo Force.


I think Black Lighting would also fit (at least if we just look at comics), he has been around quite long, and keeps getting used, but he doesn't really have any stand out stories, and I kind of have the impression that most people are more interested in his daughters than in him.

[ducklord]

I think Katana appears more frequently than Geo Force.


I think Black Lighting would also fit (at least if we just look at comics), he has been around quite long, and keeps getting used, but he doesn't really have any stand out stories, and I kind of have the impression that most people are more interested in his daughters than in him.

The Other History of the DC Universe feature with BL is awesome, imo. Also, the ptsd-themed issue of his second(?) ongoing is a solid keeper.

But between those two stories there's been a lot of lean years for Jeff. Also, I really don't like the bald look. He doesn't need to go back to the fro-mask (which was awesome, if problematic), but I just think he looks better with hair.

Oooh, whatabout Man-Bat? There's a good idea that, imo, has never had a great story.

[Thor-Ul]

I've been thinking a lot about the classic Outsiders with regards to this category. The only problem I have with adding any of them to this list is that, while they were being published, Barr took great pains to give every one of them their moments in the sun. None of them ever faded into the background. All of them had a distinctive voice. Their individual fandom/derision was earned via storytelling.

Of course, post-Outsiders, Halo seems to have dropped of the face of the DCU entirely. Of the original creations, only Geo-Force seems to keep popping up with any regularity, and in his case it's mostly because DC wants to play "how can we eff with Markovia THIS year?"

So meh? Maybe not.

But they still keep in the background. I even doubted to include them because I don't think if they still have appearances enough to count.

Oh, by the Way, Bendis did included Sun Boy on his Legion. But the whole Bendis Legion is kinda "meh".