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  1. #121
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    Bruce has plans to take out his friends, but has a hard time neutralizing his enemies.

    Harley being a good person who was corrupted by the Joker rather than a bad person who was outplayed by a worse one.

  2. #122
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    Makes sense.

    That said, when it comes to the 'public' Bruce Wayne as well, I prefer if he isn't too much of an act. I kinda like to think of the 'public' Bruce as being what Bruce Wayne would have been like had his parents not been killed. (I similarly prefer the 'public' Clark Kent to be what he would have been like had he been the biological son of Jonathan and Martha who had no alien heritage, powers or dual identity).

    Maybe he plays up certain aspects of the playboy/rich businessman persona in public, but it shouldn't be 100% an act.

    Basically, my point of comparision here is the way Christian Bale portrays the 'public' Bruce Wayne in Begins vs. in TDK and TDKR. In the first film, he's just creating his public persona so he puts on an act of being a douchey billionaire playboy (I mean he literally takes pointers from Alfred on ''what does someone like me do''). But by TDK, while he still acts the carefree playboy in public, he does show a bit more of himself, like for instance, in his interactions with Harvey Dent. Throwing a fundraiser for Harvey in the interests of Gotham's future is precisely the sort of thing Bruce might genuienly want to do, beyond just 'pretending' to be a philantrophist. Likewise in TDKR, during his interactions with Selina, and also in the fact that after quitting the cowl, he devoted Wayne Enterprise's resources to developing clean energy (not to mention visiting boy's homes he's funding and interacting with the kids, as John Blake remembers).

    All the live-action actors have actually handled this aspect pretty well. Michael Keaton's Bruce sure isn't putting on an act...he lets the world see the 'real' him in all his neurotic glory. Val Kilmer's public Bruce is pretty much the same as his private one. Ditto George Clooney. And Ben Affleck does a great job too.
    Yeah, I like the idea that he's playing up both sides as the situation presents. Neither is really 100% him, but they're modified versions of him.

  3. #123
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    This may not necessarily be mainstream, since it varies a *lot* based on the creator, but I don’t think Bruce playing the playboy “all the way” with his numerous dates works or makes that much sense. I get the appeals of the idea, both in the more “logistical” (that it would sell the idea that he’s only a playboy harder than merely partying would) and the more escapist (that it allows some fans to have a James Bond-esque fantasy with the character)… but it actually brings up even more logistical issues than it ostensibly conceals, and character wise doesn’t fit Bruce that well.

    Like, if Bruce is a mass of scar tissue that keeps odd hours because of being Batman, than he’s not going to be able to add a bunch of notches to his bedpost before way too many poeple know about his massive collection of acid burns, regular burns, bullet wounds, and suspiciously-claw-shaped marks.

    And personality-wise, I think Bruce tends to work far more as a serious serial monogamist with a small handful of non-overlapping serious romances; it better reflects his mix of workaholic nature, empathy and compassion elements, trust issues, and the fact that at least two fo his romances are supposed to be seen as serious (Talia and Selina), while the only real way to make some other love interests serious is if there’s no real way to have them lost in a sea of “conquests.”
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  4. #124
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    The thing that bugs me today is, why would Bruce want to attract attention to himself with his playboy antics? Can't he just be one of those billionaires who are anonymous? Like, Lucius can be the face of Wane Industries but few people know what Bruce Wayne looks like. It happens in real life too, sure you have your Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Elon Musk and Richard Bransons but there are plenty of industrialists who avoid the spotlight. Can't 'billionaire industrialist' Bruce affect a persona similar to Tim Cook? Nobody can imagine that guy swinging between buildings.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    This may not necessarily be mainstream, since it varies a *lot* based on the creator, but I don’t think Bruce playing the playboy “all the way” with his numerous dates works or makes that much sense. I get the appeals of the idea, both in the more “logistical” (that it would sell the idea that he’s only a playboy harder than merely partying would) and the more escapist (that it allows some fans to have a James Bond-esque fantasy with the character)… but it actually brings up even more logistical issues than it ostensibly conceals, and character wise doesn’t fit Bruce that well.

    Like, if Bruce is a mass of scar tissue that keeps odd hours because of being Batman, than he’s not going to be able to add a bunch of notches to his bedpost before way too many poeple know about his massive collection of acid burns, regular burns, bullet wounds, and suspiciously-claw-shaped marks.

    And personality-wise, I think Bruce tends to work far more as a serious serial monogamist with a small handful of non-overlapping serious romances; it better reflects his mix of workaholic nature, empathy and compassion elements, trust issues, and the fact that at least two fo his romances are supposed to be seen as serious (Talia and Selina), while the only real way to make some other love interests serious is if there’s no real way to have them lost in a sea of “conquests.”
    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    The thing that bugs me today is, why would Bruce want to attract attention to himself with his playboy antics? Can't he just be one of those billionaires who are anonymous? Like, Lucius can be the face of Wane Industries but few people know what Bruce Wayne looks like. It happens in real life too, sure you have your Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Elon Musk and Richard Bransons but there are plenty of industrialists who avoid the spotlight. Can't 'billionaire industrialist' Bruce affect a persona similar to Tim Cook? Nobody can imagine that guy swinging between buildings.
    All great points.

    The way I see it, the whole playboy thing is something Bruce adopts when he's just starting out as Batman. It makes more sense in that context. When Batman first showed up, Bruce had just returned to Gotham after years abroad (in some versions, he was actually missing, presumed dead). There was a lot of media buzz and speculation about his return and his plans. Then, not long after, a masked vigilante shows up beating the crap out of criminals. Now who would have the resources to operate as Batman, as well as a strong enough motivation to go to extreme lengths to fight street crime? How about the billionaire whose parents were murdered by a mugger when he was a child and who, guess what, returned to Gotham after a mysterious sojourn abroad just before Batman showed up?

    This is in fact more or less the train of thought Gordon follows in Year One when he's investigating Batman, and it makes Bruce Wayne his prime suspect almost immediately. You know what throws him off? Bruce putting on his playboy act, with a half-named girl lounging on his sofa during his meeting with Gordon (Jim isn't 100% convinced though and figures it might be an act...the point is there is room for reasonable doubt that a 'hardcore' playboy like Bruce could be Batman).

    That said, I think as time passes, and Bruce becomes a bigger part of the Gotham social and business circuit, and begins his philantrophic work with the Wayne Foundation, he can slowly start to drop the playboy facade. Yes, he might have some long-term relationships with various women who don't know his secret (like Silver St. Cloud), and those may not end well, but I don't see him going out of his way to be seen as a playboy. Frankly, it makes it harder for him to be seen as a serious philantrophist or industrialist if that's what he's primarily known for.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    All great points.

    The way I see it, the whole playboy thing is something Bruce adopts when he's just starting out as Batman. It makes more sense in that context. When Batman first showed up, Bruce had just returned to Gotham after years abroad (in some versions, he was actually missing, presumed dead). There was a lot of media buzz and speculation about his return and his plans. Then, not long after, a masked vigilante shows up beating the crap out of criminals. Now who would have the resources to operate as Batman, as well as a strong enough motivation to go to extreme lengths to fight street crime? How about the billionaire whose parents were murdered by a mugger when he was a child and who, guess what, returned to Gotham after a mysterious sojourn abroad just before Batman showed up?

    This is in fact more or less the train of thought Gordon follows in Year One when he's investigating Batman, and it makes Bruce Wayne his prime suspect almost immediately. You know what throws him off? Bruce putting on his playboy act, with a half-named girl lounging on his sofa during his meeting with Gordon (Jim isn't 100% convinced though and figures it might be an act...the point is there is room for reasonable doubt that a 'hardcore' playboy like Bruce could be Batman).

    That said, I think as time passes, and Bruce becomes a bigger part of the Gotham social and business circuit, and begins his philantrophic work with the Wayne Foundation, he can slowly start to drop the playboy facade. Yes, he might have some long-term relationships with various women who don't know his secret (like Silver St. Cloud), and those may not end well, but I don't see him going out of his way to be seen as a playboy. Frankly, it makes it harder for him to be seen as a serious philantrophist or industrialist if that's what he's primarily known for.
    I really liked the 70’s-80’s idea to portray him as spending his daytime at the Wayne Foundation as an almost purely philanthropist figure; I think hvaing Fox be the dude running Enterprises while Bruce focuses on charity and being Batman works better.

    Plus, the Wayne Foundation building is awesome.
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  7. #127
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    Funnily enough, Tony Stark was actually created by Stan Lee to be the very opposite of, well, the ''woke culture'' of the 60's. He took it up as a challenge to create a character that the (presumably) left-leaning young audience would be predisposed to hate, but would be forced to love!

    I actually have a hard time imagining a present-day creator being willing to take the same challenge...
    Heh. It works. I don't like Tony because his arrogance, addiction and playboy persona is real. I much prefer the actor and ninja master of self control Bruce Wayne or the full hero figure of both Cap and Superman. That said, Tony is hilarious and have a much clearer character flaw, his flaw and heroism are pretty much even, so it makes him an entertaining character that won't be accused of being a Sue as fast as the pure good characters.

  8. #128
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistah K88 View Post
    Harley being a good person who was corrupted by the Joker rather than a bad person who was outplayed by a worse one.
    I don't view Harleen as ever being a bad person, at least not to the degree that she deserved to be corrupted by the Joker or would have been an infamous criminal if not for his influence.

    But I do dislike the notion that she is blameless for her post-Harley Quinn actions just because of her tragic beginnings. I also dislike the idea that she 100% an abused doormat with no power in her relationships. Harley has dysfunctional, abusive relationships with both the Joker and Ivy, but has more power in both dynamics than she lets on. And that's how she likes it, she loves to play up her "dumb blonde" shtick so people underestimate her, and she knows how to subtly manipulate both of her partners to get what she wants while also allowing them to be domineering like they want.

  9. #129
    Spectacular Member Micael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    This may not necessarily be mainstream, since it varies a *lot* based on the creator, but I don’t think Bruce playing the playboy “all the way” with his numerous dates works or makes that much sense. I get the appeals of the idea, both in the more “logistical” (that it would sell the idea that he’s only a playboy harder than merely partying would) and the more escapist (that it allows some fans to have a James Bond-esque fantasy with the character)… but it actually brings up even more logistical issues than it ostensibly conceals, and character wise doesn’t fit Bruce that well.

    Like, if Bruce is a mass of scar tissue that keeps odd hours because of being Batman, than he’s not going to be able to add a bunch of notches to his bedpost before way too many poeple know about his massive collection of acid burns, regular burns, bullet wounds, and suspiciously-claw-shaped marks.

    And personality-wise, I think Bruce tends to work far more as a serious serial monogamist with a small handful of non-overlapping serious romances; it better reflects his mix of workaholic nature, empathy and compassion elements, trust issues, and the fact that at least two fo his romances are supposed to be seen as serious (Talia and Selina), while the only real way to make some other love interests serious is if there’s no real way to have them lost in a sea of “conquests.”
    I don't even think there's many versions where he's shown to go all the way with his playboy gimmick. Usually he just pretends and finds an excuse to not sleep with the women which in my opinion wouldn't actually work because they surely talk among themselves and people and the media would find out that Bruce was hiding something. He doesn't actually have to spend the night with them and Bruce with all his resources should have a way to deal with his scars. What happens when he's invited to pool party?

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    I don't even think there's many versions where he's shown to go all the way with his playboy gimmick. Usually he just pretends and finds an excuse to not sleep with the women which in my opinion wouldn't actually work because they surely talk among themselves and people and the media would find out that Bruce was hiding something. He doesn't actually have to spend the night with them and Bruce with all his resources should have a way to deal with his scars. What happens when he's invited to pool party?
    “…Okay, dude, on the one hand, we are all impressed that you somehow have not a six-pack, but an eight-pack. That’s… ludicrously ripped, Bruce. On the other hand… why do you have six bullet wounds, four stab wounds, two burn marks, and enough bruises that we thought you had a tanning bed accident at first?”

    “…Polo.”

    “Polo?”

    Extreme polo.”
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  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistah K88 View Post
    Bruce has plans to take out his friends, but has a hard time neutralizing his enemies.

    Harley being a good person who was corrupted by the Joker rather than a bad person who was outplayed by a worse one.
    Yeah, obviously Joker is worse but pre-Joker Harley most always comes off to me as just a step or two removed from the stereotypical quack doctors usually seen at employed at Arkham who want to get famous off of profiling their inmates (ex. the therapist from DKR).

  12. #132
    Astonishing Member batnbreakfast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    “…Okay, dude, on the one hand, we are all impressed that you somehow have not a six-pack, but an eight-pack. That’s… ludicrously ripped, Bruce. On the other hand… why do you have six bullet wounds, four stab wounds, two burn marks, and enough bruises that we thought you had a tanning bed accident at first?”

    “…Polo.”

    “Polo?”

    Extreme polo.”
    I believe Lamont Cranston is the version of Bruce who would have bedded all those women and the butler

  13. #133
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batnbreakfast View Post
    I believe Lamont Cranston is the version of Bruce who would have bedded all those women and the butler
    Wait he bedded the butler too?

    One of my favorite Tumblr headcanon is people of Gotham thinking Batman and Bruce are lovers since Batman is Bruce's bodyguard through Batman Inc and Bruce doesn't bed the women he's with

    So I sniggered when Bruce is interrogated about his relationship Batman in Batman The Detective and he responded with "what you mean like lovers?"
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 07-26-2021 at 11:43 PM.

  14. #134
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Wait he bedded the butler too?

    One of my favorite Tumblr headcanon is people of Gotham thinking Batman and Bruce are lovers since Batman is Bruce's bodyguard through Batman Inc and Bruce doesn't bed the women he's with

    So I sniggered when Bruce is interrogated about his relationship Batman in Batman The Detective and he responded with "what you mean like lovers?"
    Was it in Inc that we got that scene where Bruce was on an online forum debating the theory that Bruce Wayne was batman?

  15. #135
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    Was it in Inc that we got that scene where Bruce was on an online forum debating the theory that Bruce Wayne was batman?
    Yeah, he made two accounts on CBR and Damian's like... father, what are you doing? ^^

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