Thragg vs S class Heroes

[Cody]

Based on another thread involving Omniman and the videos I posted in it, how would this event go down if Thragg was the Viltrumite that the S class heroes of One Punch Man threw down with?

Team S get all their feats from the webcomic, manga, and anime. Thragg...can already so anything that any Viltrumite from the comics and show can do so no need to go further than the comic version.

How does this fight go down?

No BFR

[Captain Morgan]

No BFR actually hurts the S class. Blast dimension dumping Thragg was their best shot. Tornado is the only one who I think can hurt Thragg but she isn't fast enough to do so before he blitzes her. The S class members who might be fast enough to try and stop him aren't powerful enough to slow him down. He can probably scatter most with a thunder clap.

[Cody]

No BFR actually hurts the S class. Blast dimension dumping Thragg was their best shot. Tornado is the only one who I think can hurt Thragg but she isn't fast enough to do so before he blitzes her. The S class members who might be fast enough to try and stop him aren't powerful enough to slow him down. He can probably scatter most with a thunder clap.

Blitz? I don't see how Thragg can blitz anyone here when he is no faster than classic Quicksilver or Thor(or at absolute best; Femthor when she performed multiple surgeries at high-speed, though I'd say that's really pushing it as is). Isn't Tornado outright hypersonic?

[big_adventure]

Thragg is the one who's getting blitzed here - there are a TON of folks in S-class who are significantly faster than Thragg.

Genos
Flashy
Bang
Atomic Samurai
Tatsumaki

...are all trivial blitzers here.

My feeling is that Genos could get some wins - full Dragon ought to do significant damage to Thragg. His regular hits won't do much of course.

Flashy is much faster, though I doubt he can hurt Thragg at all.

Bang - he's likely to win more then he loses, for me: he lacks the endurance and the agility, but he's massively faster and has basically perfect defense. Thragg not having a ranged game hurts him a ton here, just like it hurt Nolan and Battle Beast.

Atomic Samurai is much faster - whether he can hurt Thragg is a question. I lean towards "yes" but I can see the argument on the other side as well. Viltrumites, including Thragg, have insane soak, fighting on after being mangled horribly, and healing from catastrophic damage, but they can be hurt by much less force than will take them out. Given Samurai's massive speed edge, he's going to land attacks, the question is "can they hurt Thragg at all." I lean towards yes.

Tatsumaki just shreds Thragg like cheddar cheese.

Blast is woefully feat-limited. He's the "number one hero", Tatsumaki worships the ground he walks on, he's "casual blitz fast" on Flashy, and off-panel he apparently one-shot and nearly killed Elder Centipede, to the level that Elder Centipede is on a one-beastie revenge mission, and drops his assigned task for a chance to rematch. Saitama trivially kills it, but that's what Saitama does. Bang and Bomb, teaming up and using their ultra move, only succeed in making Elder Centipede stronger, for what it's worth.

[Captain Morgan]

My problem with that assessment is that Thragg fights on the surface of the sun. (Or possibly within it. The art is a little ambigous whether he's fighting in the corona and plunging into the surface, or fighting within it and plunging into deep layers/core.) It eventually kills him, but even surviving brief contact puts him way out side the range Bang, Samurai, and Flash can hurt.

Tornado is another story, but I'm drawing a blank on anything that qualifies as a clean speed feat for her, much less hypersonic.

I was forgetting about Genos-- the dragon might indeed hurt Thragg, and for simplicity be and Thragg are probably around the same speed... But is that cannon hotter than the sun? I'm pretty leery of it. My instinct is Thragg is hurt by it by outlasts the 10 seconds Genos has with it, of just charges through and tears Genos apart. Thragg loses his Freddy Mercury stache in the process though.

[Cody]

Tornado is another story, but I'm drawing a blank on anything that qualifies as a clean speed feat for her, much less hypersonic.

Yeah, I don't normally like algorithms as it inherently assumes the writers took hard math into consideration while writing their pieces of fiction, but a decent Nik did a speed calc on these characters here:

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post1614193

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post5137664

[Captain Morgan]

Yeah, I don't normally like algorithms as it inherently assumes the writers took hard math into consideration while writing their pieces of fiction, but a decent Nik did a speed calc on these characters here:

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post1614193

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post5137664

Yeah, I haven no problem pegging certain S class heroes as faster than than Thragg. Flashy Flash certainly has the feats to back it up, at least. But Tornado isn't a fast character or physical power house like those characters. Her powers operate on an entirely different principle than the others listed here. I see no reason to apply their speed feats to her.

Also, if you're going to cite Nik for speed algorithms, I'll point out he consistently legs Viltrumites as faster than you do. Using his metrics for one side but not the other doesn't sit right.

[Cody]

Yeah, I haven no problem pegging certain S class heroes as faster than than Thragg. Flashy Flash certainly has the feats to back it up, at least. But Tornado isn't a fast character or physical power house like those characters. Her powers operate on an entirely different principle than the others listed here. I see no reason to apply their speed feats to her.

Also, if you're going to cite Nik for speed algorithms, I'll point out he consistently legs Viltrumites as faster than you do. Using his metrics for one side but not the other doesn't sit right.

Just because I agree with him in one subject doesn't mean I have to agree with everything he says like a devout follower dude . Tornado reacted to Golden sperm and to bullets herself iirc, she is no slowpoke, and one of the reasons she is Considered capable of beating Boros in another thread.

[Captain Morgan]

Just because I agree with him in one subject doesn't mean I have to agree with everything he says like a devout follower dude . Tornado reacted to Golden sperm and to bullets herself iirc, she is no slowpoke, and one of the reasons she is Considered capable of beating Boros in another thread.

When did she react to bullets? And what particular reaction did she have to Golden Sperm? Can you cite issue numbers for me?

[Jaden Korr]

There's a fairly explicit moment when Thragg fights Space Racer. Where he makes use of his flight speed in combat, and dodges many of Space Racer's lasers at point blank range whilst chasing him down with clear intent to kill. Since viltrumites typically fly at speeds equivalent to most star-ships? This is definitely FTL. Space Racer is a similar position with his bike. As he uses it to travel around the galaxy. The time-frame Thragg would have had to react to those lasers would have been absolutely minuscule. Due to that combination of factors. He was dodging lasers at point blank whilst they were both flying at superluminal speeds. Which means Thragg would have been approaching said lasers at astronomical velocities. If he was not fast enough to react to his own speed he would have died.

https://i.imgur.com/4dcmIHa.jpeg

As for the sun? That's a classic of case of comic book writers not understanding the scale of what they're writing. The surface of the sun isn't actually hot enough to hurt viltrumites as powerful as Thragg because much earlier on in the series even Mark was able to survive unscathed against nukes powerful enough to glass the entirety of Las Vegas. For reference Las Vegas is over 141 square miles. All of that got vaporized and glassed. And Mark only had to worry about getting a new costume. The surface of the sun is only around 10000 degrees Fahrenheit, and more importantly the atmosphere of the sun is actually 300 times hotter than the surface of it. The fact the comic book portrayed the surface as hotter and more dangerous than the atmosphere is a brain fart on the part of the people who wrote it. In the very same scene where dipping into the surface skinned Mark and Thragg? They were resisting temperatures 300 times hotter than it when they fought in the sun's atmosphere. The whole scene doesn't make sense.

https://i.imgur.com/Fky2OGw.png
https://i.imgur.com/EwFoWC9.png
https://i.imgur.com/qYYrloM.png

[Nik Hasta]

On holiday at the moment so I'm not able to get into this at the moment. I did want to flag one thing though.

Thragg is a bit of a tricky one to talk about for speed for a couple of reasons.

As I am careful to remind everyone involved, Thragg was wildly beyond every other Viltrumite in every stat until Mark got a completely random and unspecified power boost from Eve that meant he could throw down somewhat competently with Thragg. This presents an issue because it means, for all Mark's various speed feats, we have no idea how much faster he became when he was in the same rough ballpark as Thragg because the only thing he did with the new power level was fight Thragg.

So it's a bit of a speculative game to discuss him. He is, conceptually at least, the top of the Invincible food chain for speed but he's a bit low on feats.

[Cody]

There's a fairly explicit moment when Thragg fights Space Racer. Where he makes use of his flight speed in combat, and dodges many of Space Racer's lasers at point blank range whilst chasing him down with clear intent to kill. Since viltrumites typically fly at speeds equivalent to most star-ships? This is definitely FTL.

This implies all flightspeed is the same and that Thragg was flying at full speed.

That was not the case.

Space Racer is a similar position with his bike. As he uses it to travel around the galaxy. The time-frame Thragg would have had to react to those lasers would have been absolutely minuscule. Due to that combination of factors. He was dodging lasers at point blank whilst they were both flying at superluminal speeds. Which means Thragg would have been approaching said lasers at astronomical velocities. If he was not fast enough to react to his own speed he would have died

.

Again, this would imply they are always traveling at max speed, but there is no indication of this.

[Cody]

On holiday at the moment so I'm not able to get into this at the moment. I did want to flag one thing though.

Thragg is a bit of a tricky one to talk about for speed for a couple of reasons.

As I am careful to remind everyone involved, Thragg was wildly beyond every other Viltrumite in every stat until Mark got a completely random and unspecified power boost from Eve that meant he could throw down somewhat competently with Thragg. This presents an issue because it means, for all Mark's various speed feats, we have no idea how much faster he became when he was in the same rough ballpark as Thragg because the only thing he did with the new power level was fight Thragg.

So it's a bit of a speculative game to discuss him. He is, conceptually at least, the top of the Invincible food chain for speed but he's a bit low on feats.

I think when it comes to speed Viltrumites are all relatively comparable, it's mostly strength and durability that can vary radically. Speed? I don't recall any Viltrumite blitzing one another outside of bull rushing.

[Jaden Korr]

This implies all flightspeed is the same and that Thragg was flying at full speed.

That was not the case.

Prove it. Thragg had intent to kill, and Space Racer was terrified of dying. That's my evidence that they're actually flying as fast as they can. Why would Space Racer slow down, and allow himself to die? Why would Thragg let Space Racer go without a fight?

Again, this would imply they are always traveling at max speed, but there is no indication of this.

There absolutely is indication of this, and you can't argue the lack of collateral damage disproves it because they are in outer space. And besides that, by your own admission you don't believe in science or physics in fiction. So, you wouldn't be able to use conservation of energy in the first place without admitting you pick and choose which things to accept or not. Regarding science and physics.

[Captain Morgan]

There's a fairly explicit moment when Thragg fights Space Racer. Where he makes use of his flight speed in combat, and dodges many of Space Racer's lasers at point blank range whilst chasing him down with clear intent to kill. Since viltrumites typically fly at speeds equivalent to most star-ships? This is definitely FTL. Space Racer is a similar position with his bike. As he uses it to travel around the galaxy. The time-frame Thragg would have had to react to those lasers would have been absolutely minuscule. Due to that combination of factors. He was dodging lasers at point blank whilst they were both flying at superluminal speeds. Which means Thragg would have been approaching said lasers at astronomical velocities. If he was not fast enough to react to his own speed he would have died.

https://i.imgur.com/4dcmIHa.jpeg

As for the sun? That's a classic of case of comic book writers not understanding the scale of what they're writing. The surface of the sun isn't actually hot enough to hurt viltrumites as powerful as Thragg because much earlier on in the series even Mark was able to survive unscathed against nukes powerful enough to glass the entirety of Las Vegas. For reference Las Vegas is over 141 square miles. All of that got vaporized and glassed. And Mark only had to worry about getting a new costume. The surface of the sun is only around 10000 degrees Fahrenheit, and more importantly the atmosphere of the sun is actually 300 times hotter than the surface of it. The fact the comic book portrayed the surface as hotter and more dangerous than the atmosphere is a brain fart on the part of the people who wrote it. In the very same scene where dipping into the surface skinned Mark and Thragg? They were resisting temperatures 300 times hotter than it when they fought in the sun's atmosphere. The whole scene doesn't make sense.

https://i.imgur.com/Fky2OGw.png
https://i.imgur.com/EwFoWC9.png
https://i.imgur.com/qYYrloM.png

On the sun thing: that's part of why I'm not sure if they are actually fighting on the surface of the sun or within it. They are drawn flying into the sun, then there's a denser level of fire which hurts them significantly more which might be the core. And the core of the sun could explain the discrepancies. (I think. I ain't no astro physicist.)