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  1. #91
    Extraordinary Member HsssH's Avatar
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    I think it is an interesting question. If there are Amazons with functional penises then it should lead to substantial changes in Amazon society.

  2. #92
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Jeebus freaking dice. Posting about Bia on my Tumblr (different username) is like an instant block list to every transphobe, which didn't happen to my post about Batgirl casting her trans best friend by the way, because apparently Themyscira is a sanctuary to trans exclusionary feminists and Bia's inclusion is consider a breach on safe space for women
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 10-22-2021 at 01:08 PM.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonOfBaldwin View Post
    The assumption that an Amazon woman has to meet a cisgender binary ideal is a problem. Insisting that in order to be on Themyscira, a trans woman's body have to be transformed into a cisgender woman's body is a problem. In a progressive system, womanhood is not determined by genitals. Thousands of Indigenous cultures understood this before European colonialism and Abrahamic colonialism violently tore these beliefs apart.
    Sexual reassignment surgery is a relatively recent invention in the course of human history, only being developed in the 20th century. So the most that could be done in cultures that accepted Transgender individuals was to allow them to take the gender role they felt they belonged in, regardless of their genitals. I wish nothing but the best for Transpeople in real life and for them to have bodies they're comfortable and happy in.

    As for problematic preconceived ideas, I'm getting the feeling that you feel a level of vestigial maleness is needed for Bia to count as trans, and if Bia has been reborn into natural female body, she would now count as a cis woman and not a trans one, hence your position that her body is a direct recreation of her previous one, along with any presumed remnants of her former male identity. Isn't this a sign that you think that transwomen are "not real women" and if there was a process by which they could become perfectly indistinguishable from a "real woman", they would longer be considered trans, and their previous male identity would become irrelevant? Aren't you in effect denying them the idea that they could become "real women", even in a speculative fiction scenario such as the one we're discussing within the comic? Is the reason you're taking the position that Bia still has physical vestiges of her male identity because you feel if she didn't, it would invalidate her as an example of transgender representation? I think I can see the well meaning in such a position, however don't you think you're indirectly invalidating the dream of many transgender individuals who would presumably love an opportunity to be truly reborn as woman completely shed of the reminders their male identity?

    Also, it's incredibly hard to remain tactful and mature about this, but since other people here are already saying the words, I'll lower my self. We're basically arguing over whether Bia has a penis, or a surgically made vagina, or a natural vagina that connects to a uterus. Unless we're wanting to make the most canonically accurate Rule 34 art possible, this is simultaneously an incredibly silly and juvenile conversation, that we are somehow putting a lot of weight on by trying to bring in how one defines gender and womanhood in real life terms. I have no problem with Transpeople in real life and wish them the best with their struggle and hope they can find peace and comfort in their body and everyday life. If Vita, Steph, or anybody else at DC wants to clarify what Bia's genitals are like, they can. Though it really shouldn't be an issue. At some point in her previous life, she was male, and now she's a woman. That makes her trans even if there's a fantasy element with the Well possibly giving her a fully female body.

  4. #94
    Extraordinary Member John Venus's Avatar
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    There aren't enough genitals featured in DC/Marvel comics for us to be having this discussion.

    Especially since there are more interesting discussion that could be had:

    Where was Bia born originally?

    What was her life like prior to reincarnation?

    Does she have living descendants or relatives in Man's World?

    Is it fair that the women's memories are wiped after they are reincarnated on Themyscira? Can it construed as a way to keep that docile and obedient especially if memories of their prior life could cause them to break rank?

  5. #95
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Not to mention these new Amazon’s could have died hundreds or thousands of years ago.

    Just because they chose to reincarnate now doesn’t mean they died last week.
    ~I just keep swimming through these threads~

  6. #96
    Beyond Good. Beyond Evil. Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    Not to mention these new Amazon’s could have died hundreds or thousands of years ago.

    Just because they chose to reincarnate now doesn’t mean they died last week.
    I was wondering when reading this if they were from modern times (i.e. after Diana has been a known public figure), so would they have already known about Themyscira.

  7. #97
    Incredible Member Fuzzy Mittens's Avatar
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    Doesn't one of them mention how for all she knew she could be a marine biologist?im curious how old that term is

  8. #98
    Mighty Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
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    I took them as being fairly fresh souls which part of me kind of doesnt like.

  9. #99
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy Mittens View Post
    Doesn't one of them mention how for all she knew she could be a marine biologist?im curious how old that term is
    Perhaps they are reborn with a base knowledge of all modern terms and idioms? Regardless of when they died.
    Last edited by I'm a Fish; 10-22-2021 at 06:34 PM.
    ~I just keep swimming through these threads~

  10. #100
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    There aren't enough genitals featured in DC/Marvel comics for us to be having this discussion.

    Especially since there are more interesting discussion that could be had:

    Where was Bia born originally?

    What was her life like prior to reincarnation?

    Does she have living descendants or relatives in Man's World?

    Is it fair that the women's memories are wiped after they are reincarnated on Themyscira? Can it construed as a way to keep that docile and obedient especially if memories of their prior life could cause them to break rank?
    I guess if you found out your family was still alive after being reborn, that might make you not want to live on the island.
    ~I just keep swimming through these threads~

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Jeebus freaking dice. Posting about Bia on my Tumblr (different username) is like an instant block list to every transphobe, which didn't happen to my post about Batgirl casting her trans best friend by the way, because apparently Themyscira is a sanctuary to trans exclusionary feminists and Bia's inclusion is consider a breach on safe space for women
    Honestly.Not hard to see how TERFs can find Themyscira appealing, given how often the island is portrayed as a safe place for woman who suffered it the hands of men.

  12. #102
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baseman View Post
    Honestly.Not hard to see how TERFs can find Themyscira appealing, given how often the island is portrayed as a safe place for woman who suffered it the hands of men.
    What is TERFs?
    ~I just keep swimming through these threads~

  13. #103
    Moderator Nyssane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    What is TERFs?
    Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists. Horrible hypocrites and POS transphobes like JK Rowling who are pro-biological woman only.

  14. #104
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists. Horrible hypocrites and POS transphobes like JK Rowling who are pro-biological woman only.
    Oh... they're a bigot group, huh?

    That's unfortunate.
    ~I just keep swimming through these threads~

  15. #105
    Mighty Member Avi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    There aren't enough genitals featured in DC/Marvel comics for us to be having this discussion.

    Especially since there are more interesting discussion that could be had:

    Where was Bia born originally?

    What was her life like prior to reincarnation?

    Does she have living descendants or relatives in Man's World?

    Is it fair that the women's memories are wiped after they are reincarnated on Themyscira? Can it construed as a way to keep that docile and obedient especially if memories of their prior life could cause them to break rank?
    The wiped-out memories gave off a bit of a cultish vibe, tbh.

    I wonder if their amnesia is going to play a role further down the line.

    Forgetting their previous life could also be a trauma response to their death, and the memories might resurface later. Some of the New Amazons seem to have more memories than others, and overall they still retained some basic knowledge of themselves.

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