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  1. #106
    Astonishing Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Not to be the bearer of bad news but...



    I get why there's so much pushback on all things progressive in comics. It's A LOT of change happening at a whirlwind pace on multiple fronts and people can't keep up with the new terms and new ideas and how they're suppossed to feel about them. There's no time to process it before everyone picks a side and goes to their battle stations. Sure there are lots of racists and homophobes creating fraudulent narratives to disguise their hatreds, but there are also regular people getting sucked into the maelstrom because they just wanted to read a fun escapist comic without having to think about real world problems and how they're effected by them. So they say "this has nothing to do with me or what I wanted to read about" and they side with the racists and homophobes because it's much easier than having to be thoughtful.

    Personally I only wanted Nubia and the Amazons to be a good, exciting, comic that broadens Wonder Woman's brand and spotlights Nubia, but now I have to consider the implications of functional penises on Paradise Island. It's not too much, nor too challenging, but it's not at all what was expected or asked for. I'm game, but can see why other people are not.

  2. #107
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    ...Didn't the Amazon's open Themyscira to the outside world several times?

    A whole world, with functioning penises, and yet there was no baby boom on Themyscira.

    Basically, what I'm saying is, can we just let the story unfold.
    ~I just keep swimming through these threads~

  3. #108
    Moderator Nyssane's Avatar
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    I'm not watching that video because I don't want to put that sort of bigotry in my brain, but I will say that I find it super uncomfortable that several people are so insistent on talking about these characters' genitals instead of celebrating the inclusivity that Wonder Woman had always strived for.

  4. #109
    Fantastic Member SonOfBaldwin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    I'm not watching that video because I don't want to put that sort of bigotry in my brain, but I will say that I find it super uncomfortable that several people are so insistent on talking about these characters' genitals instead of celebrating the inclusivity that Wonder Woman had always strived for.
    I'm not watching that video either. I'm not into giving anti-trans people click money.
    Author of the Instant New York Times bestselling novel, The Prophets, from G.P. Putnman's Sons.

  5. #110
    Incredible Member MarquisAsh's Avatar
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    This trans post is really having people talk I see. Now did she say they were trans currently or previously in their lives? That would help to know if they have a penis or not. Because they could’ve been born in their correct bodies on Themyscira and was trans women prior.

  6. #111
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarquisAsh View Post
    This trans post is really having people talk I see. Now did she say they were trans currently or previously in their lives? That would help to know if they have a penis or not. Because they could’ve been born in their correct bodies on Themyscira and was trans women prior.
    Bia was always trans. That's the point of it.

    But the implication is that because she was reborn in the 'correct' body and felt like herself for the first time is that she was a trans woman who was reborn on Themyscira in the body of a woman.
    "We come into this world alone and we leave the same way. The time we spent in between - time spent alive, sharing, learning together... is all that makes life worth living." - Jean Grey

  7. #112
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    I'm not watching that video because I don't want to put that sort of bigotry in my brain,but I will say that I find it super uncomfortable that several people are so insistent on talking about these characters' genitals instead of celebrating the inclusivity that Wonder Woman had always strived for.
    My thoughts exactly.

    I think there’s a false assumption that Wonder Woman media has never, and should never, address gender politics.
    Last edited by I'm a Fish; 10-23-2021 at 09:47 AM.
    ~I just keep swimming through these threads~

  8. #113
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    As a cis person I do not really want to weigh in on this debate because I know I'm not knowledgeable enough or have the perspective to have a truly informed opinion.

    I just know I felt it was a touching moment and I like that there is an attempt to broach the subject with Bia, even if the specifics are still vague (possibly for the best). I think it was a good move and I hope Bia sticks around, this is the kind of stuff the WW comic should be tackling.

  9. #114
    Astonishing Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    I'm not watching that video because I don't want to put that sort of bigotry in my brain, but I will say that I find it super uncomfortable that several people are so insistent on talking about these characters' genitals instead of celebrating the inclusivity that Wonder Woman had always strived for.
    Quote Originally Posted by SonOfBaldwin View Post
    I'm not watching that video either. I'm not into giving anti-trans people click money.
    You have to know what's being said in order to refute it. You have to fight ignorance with knowledge and a lot of those people need educating (or at least some thumbs down votes lol). If you won't watch that one, watch Blerd Without Fear's response to it. He Deserves your clicks.


  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    As a cis person I do not really want to weigh in on this debate because I know I'm not knowledgeable enough or have the perspective to have a truly informed opinion.

    I just know I felt it was a touching moment and I like that there is an attempt to broach the subject with Bia, even if the specifics are still vague (possibly for the best). I think it was a good move and I hope Bia sticks around, this is the kind of stuff the WW comic should be tackling.
    What issues or problems do you think Wonder Woman should be dealing with?

  11. #116
    Extraordinary Member John Venus's Avatar
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    -When it comes to escapism, that's something that POC and LGBT readers need as well. If people are confused about terminologies then maybe they'll learn through inclusiveness.

    -Also, every body is jumping the gun assuming that Bia has a penis. It's entirely possible that she was brought back in a full cis-female body. It's possible that she might change herself in order to better align with who she is on the inside, that's assuming if the story ever goes there. The amnesia thing will probably come into play at some point in the story.


    Quote Originally Posted by Avi View Post
    The wiped-out memories gave off a bit of a cultish vibe, tbh.

    I wonder if their amnesia is going to play a role further down the line.

    Forgetting their previous life could also be a trauma response to their death, and the memories might resurface later. Some of the New Amazons seem to have more memories than others, and overall they still retained some basic knowledge of themselves.
    I hope so.

    Maybe we are meant to find the amnesia part to be unsettling.

  12. #117
    Mighty Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
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    When Hippolyta and everyone was created they essentially came out with fresh slates right? They didnt remember their time as Cave Women or their past lives. These are women who are reborn with new bodies, made immortal, and granted whatever the gifts of the Gods were bestowed upon the Amazons of Themyscira. I dont know if them being reborn Amazons with their former memories is the best way to go.

  13. #118
    Fantastic Member HestiasHearth's Avatar
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    I gotta laugh at transphobes "argument" that when a writer who identifies as a transgender black lesbian writes a character who happens to be a transgender black lesbian, it automatically makes the story an example of bad writing because of the "self insert"; funny how all these fanbiy incels only have a problem with self inserts when it comes to non-white, non-cis, non-hetero characters. Comic books have always been predominantly written by cishetero white men, and their stories have always been predominantly about cishetero white men, but fanboys never complained about that being a case of writers inserting themselves in the stories (which in and of itself is not a bad thing) or that it was "bad storytelling" just by virtue of being a self insert.

  14. #119
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    I get why there's so much pushback on all things progressive in comics. It's A LOT of change happening at a whirlwind pace on multiple fronts and people can't keep up with the new terms and new ideas and how they're suppossed to feel about them. There's no time to process it before everyone picks a side and goes to their battle stations. Sure there are lots of racists and homophobes creating fraudulent narratives to disguise their hatreds, but there are also regular people getting sucked into the maelstrom because they just wanted to read a fun escapist comic without having to think about real world problems and how they're effected by them. So they say "this has nothing to do with me or what I wanted to read about" and they side with the racists and homophobes because it's much easier than having to be thoughtful.

    Personally I only wanted Nubia and the Amazons to be a good, exciting, comic that broadens Wonder Woman's brand and spotlights Nubia, but now I have to consider the implications of functional penises on Paradise Island. It's not too much, nor too challenging, but it's not at all what was expected or asked for. I'm game, but can see why other people are not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    You have to know what's being said in order to refute it. You have to fight ignorance with knowledge and a lot of those people need educating (or at least some thumbs down votes lol). If you won't watch that one, watch Blerd Without Fear's response to it. He Deserves your clicks.
    Bigots are defined by refusal to learn, so we're not gonna waste time to teach

    I would've made some time to give info if the comments under my blog was "Wait how does this work exactly?" but they went straight to "I wanna kill" "That's it comics is ruined" and "lol how did he get his hormones shipped to the island"

    There is not even an information from the book or the author yet, the story just started, we only had a cameo, but they already made that decision.

    Then I made a second post interpreting the author's intention (the reincarnation is the transition, she used to have male body and now has a cis woman body), just speaking in general, just like my first Bia post was just an announcement in general, and there's no comment, just spam.

    It's been 2 days now, whereas the announcement got hate within the first 8 hours.

    So you see, they're not interested to know. They show up only as a reaction for things that inconvenience them, then leave.

    Also, about the people who are neutral but side with haters because it's easier than learning, that's not neutral. That count as bigotry too, because they don't want to learn. They choose to make it easy for themselves by not learning, and continue not learning.

    All they have to do, if they're neutral, is just take a break. Comics aren't going anywhere, and they don't have to know anything right now. It's a serial publication. Either wait, ask, or discuss, and I can tell whether they actually want a discussion or not by the way they phrase the question.

    They don't even have to learn now. It can be later. They just don't need to be a dick about it.
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 10-24-2021 at 09:21 AM.

  15. #120
    Amazing Member Garrac's Avatar
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    I am too busy reading Wodner Woman comics to read bigots

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