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  1. #16
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Chiiile... Nobody does it like her. I hope these help with developing her character.




  2. #17
    Ph.D. in Dudeism GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    Mikey, your response coincided with my completion of a summary I have written - admittedly, peppered with some headcanon based on what has been written for her - regarding her connection with the Phoenix Force. I am cleaning it up a bit, but I will share the summary in this and her thread shortly.

    Now, regarding your reply...



    Understandable, but the character shouldn't be prejudged or slighted just because you have not been privy to her original, more authentic incarnations. It's neither the fault of Stan Lee nor the creators fundamental to her development that the cartoon chose to veer so far away from her character as established in the comic books for their interpretation.



    She certainly didn't earn the right to wield the Phoenix Force by participating in a sophomoric WWF-like tournament. Instead, she earned the right by being willing to sacrifice her life for the greater good twice. Furthermore, she is one of the most powerful, if not the most powerful of all psionic beings, as has been stated numerous times in the comic books, which is another reason the Phoenix Force has been so drawn to and preoccupied with her. Her courage, selflessness, and innate power are what make her stand out to the Phoenix Force. Finally, Claremont created the Phoenix Force specifically for Jean, to showcase her power and potential as a psi. Quite frankly, I find it gross that it's been ripped from her and circulated around like an item of clothing. It is an intrinsic part of her mythos, which is one of the things Grant Morrison got absolutely right in his interpretation of her.

    Then again, Jean has not only had her powers stripped from her but she has also been killed on more than one occasion, has had the abuses that were perpetrated on her by Mesmero, Mastermind, and the White Queen - and their emotional ramifications - glossed over as inconsequential; has been cloned, had her entire family slaughtered, her marriage trampled on, and has been seemingly regressed to a version of herself that dates back to the 1960s, though, I dare say she had more spunk and autonomy back then than what they've currently been writing for her.

    Nevertheless, she continues to shine and still has many adoring fans, both in and out of the industry. She is a compelling character to whom one can apply the proverb "still waters run deep."



    Admittedly, this does sound interesting and your "quest" is endearing. I look forward to reading more of your thoughts and ideas
    So I will say this, while I DO have several counter arguments, I will not pursue that conversation as character debates isn't what this thread is for.

    I will say that, I understand you're a fan of the character and you deeply enjoy the character, which is perfectly fine. from this moment forward, I'll speak primarily on just ideas on the table, and what others have discussed and debated on as far as character development goes.

    I believe this project will offer some awesome collabs and ideas to manifest for many of the MU characters, in an exciting and unorthodox way
    Last edited by GMikey; 07-19-2021 at 02:10 PM.

  3. #18
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMikey View Post
    …character debates isn't what this thread is for… I'll speak primarily on just ideas on the table, and what others have discussed and debated on as far as character development goes.
    Fair enough, just as long you include actual aspects of her character as written in the comics rather than just opinions in your discussion. I’ve provided several examples for you above and on the previous page.
    Last edited by Mercury; 07-19-2021 at 02:20 PM.

  4. #19
    Mugga, please. xhx23x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    Does Madelyn have to be a villain in every AU? The only reason she became a villain in the first place was because she was character assassinated in order to salvage Scott from his own character assassination. Why can't there be stories where she remains the X-Men ally who heroically sacrificed her life to save the world even though she didn't have any powers?
    I once wrote a pilot for an X-Men TV show fan project I wanted to make but lack the time. It was set after the ANXM, but with a more TV budget friendly roster. I wanted to introduce Maddie as a relative to Jean, which would keep the vertigo aspect of her relationship with Scott but still allowing her to keep her own character traits and agency. I do feel that a fresh take on Maddy is desperately needed.

    As for the OP, when it comes to Jean I always think that thd farther away from the Phoenix force you start the better. That is not to say you can't do that, but Jean is far too often only defined by that and I feel it detracts more than it adds nowadays. The focus on the school would be cool. During Morrison it was awesome to see her interact with students and leading the school primarily. I often think that's why her best other media portrayal is Evolution, since there she was confident, powerful, went from student to trainer and she started with a social life beyond the Xavier's, so she was well integrated in the human world before she was outed to the world.

  5. #20
    Ph.D. in Dudeism GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    Fair enough, just as long you include actual aspects of her character as written in the comics rather than just opinions in your discussion. I’ve provided several examples for you above and on the previous page.
    Oh yeah, the chief wants a certain level of comic accuracy, though the focus IS bringing to life the creative ideas of the fans. This thread isn't the only one with opinions and ideas to share. there are other groups on other platforms that have been in discussion with this for a while. The examples you posted could definitely be passed to the other writers, for additional inspiration

    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    I know I’m being a ruthless fan on steroids but I can’t help myself, lol.
    lol well you aren't the only one. you need to hear the chief writer's opinion on HER favorite X-Man. You talk about someone who doesn't hold back LOL
    Last edited by GMikey; 07-19-2021 at 05:04 PM.

  6. #21
    Ph.D. in Dudeism GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    Does Madelyn have to be a villain in every AU? The only reason she became a villain in the first place was because she was character assassinated in order to salvage Scott from his own character assassination. Why can't there be stories where she remains the X-Men ally who heroically sacrificed her life to save the world even though she didn't have any powers?
    Well... Emma Frost has a number of directions to be given to her character arc. one thing ppl have said is that she'd be that villain who IS a villain because of her past, and in trying to free herself and be her own boss... antagonistic is the only way she knows how. There's a very interesting plot on the table, "Phoenix: Hymns of Light" where Jean Grey and Emma Frost are forced into some common ground, and even have to be allies. Due to the magnitude of the story's situation (involving many conflicting heroes, various realms, cosmic warfare, and the deterministic choices that must be made by the central character during his journey) Jean and Emma had to come together and help each other attempt seeing past what was "alien" to reality.

    In another plot on the table, Emma would be the one to make a discovery in which only Jean was able to convince everyone else to believe what she was telling them. So... there's definitely moments Emma Frost isn't inherently "evil" all the time. but she does kinda serves as an antagonist more over, as most ppl in the current think tanks prefer her being an antagonist with occasional heroic/collaborative moments with the team.

  7. #22
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMikey View Post
    Oh yeah, the chief wants a certain level of comic accuracy, though the focus IS bringing to life the creative ideas of the fans. This thread isn't the only one with opinions and ideas to share. there are other groups on other platforms that have been in discussion with this for a while. The examples you posted could definitely be passed to the other writers, for additional inspiration
    I swear, I thought you were referring to me as "the chief." I was about to get too cute... lmao. And good for her!

    Quote Originally Posted by GMikey View Post
    lol well you aren't the only one. you need to hear the chief writer's opinion on HER favorite X-Man. You talk about someone who doesn't hold back LOL
    This is a relief to read. Who is her favorite X-Man, btw?

  8. #23
    Ph.D. in Dudeism GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xhx23x View Post
    I once wrote a pilot for an X-Men TV show fan project I wanted to make but lack the time. It was set after the ANXM, but with a more TV budget friendly roster. I wanted to introduce Maddie as a relative to Jean, which would keep the vertigo aspect of her relationship with Scott but still allowing her to keep her own character traits and agency. I do feel that a fresh take on Maddy is desperately needed.

    As for the OP, when it comes to Jean I always think that thd farther away from the Phoenix force you start the better. That is not to say you can't do that, but Jean is far too often only defined by that and I feel it detracts more than it adds nowadays. The focus on the school would be cool. During Morrison it was awesome to see her interact with students and leading the school primarily. I often think that's why her best other media portrayal is Evolution, since there she was confident, powerful, went from student to trainer and she started with a social life beyond the Xavier's, so she was well integrated in the human world before she was outed to the world.
    Ah, well... the chief writer IS using her time to animate this, so if you're a good thinker this may be something to kinda make ur wish come true!

    TBH there's an undertone of which the chief writer already wants to explore Jean Grey more as a character of her own merit, WITHOUT having to be Phoenix all the time (esp. for the direction the Phoenix Trilogy winds up taking). The chief already said that she wants to explore and focus a lot more on Jean's leadership of the X-Men, opening the Jean Grey School in Xavier's honor and being a mentor, and her exploring her own powers, and being creative with that.

    One trait mentioned about Kid Jean is that despite the amt of compassion she had, and felt she was most compassionate for Mutants' plight, she didn't realize she still had more to learn, having lived a relatively sheltered life, and not really understanding why ppl/Mutants (like Spyke and Gambit) make such poor choices when they could make "good ones", and as an adult, dealing with troubled Mutants one on one demonstrates a major learning experience for her, in learning further how to be compassionate for even those who seem unworthy of it.

    That doesnt mean there would be no exploration of Jean as Phoenix, there's definitely a good amt and definitely with new narratives and grounds for Phoenix to explore.

    but this is the thread (for now lol) to discuss your ideas and opinions, starting with this character

  9. #24
    Ph.D. in Dudeism GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    I swear, I thought you were referring to me as "the chief." I was about to get too cute... lmao. And good for her!
    Oh lol. we call the primary writer "chief" bc of her presence amongst fans. she's bridged a million people together, thats a hell of a feat. And shes multi-talented, very generous, (just yesterday one of Marvel's admins didn't have a mic, and she INSTANTLY bought one and had it shipped to them! she also purchased Funko pops for someone else's competition, who couldn't afford it. She's that amazing) these are the reasons why she now has Marvel Studios' attention, and why we all call her "chief" lol

    This is a relief to read. Who is her favorite X-Man, btw?
    Ah... I'll have to DM you. I'd rather keep her opinions neutral on the threads, so we can just focus on what fans from CBR would like to discuss

  10. #25
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMikey View Post
    Oh lol. we call the primary writer "chief" bc of her presence amongst fans. she's bridged a million people together, thats a hell of a feat. And shes multi-talented, very generous, (just yesterday one of Marvel's admins didn't have a mic, and she INSTANTLY bought one and had it shipped to them! she also purchased Funko pops for someone else's competition, who couldn't afford it. She's that amazing) these are the reasons why she now has Marvel Studios' attention, and why we all call her "chief" lol



    Ah... I'll have to DM you. I'd rather keep her opinions neutral on the threads, so we can just focus on what fans from CBR would like to discuss
    Color me intrigued. And feel free to DM me. Also, if "chief" needs more info and resources on Jean and her history, direct her to:

    https://twitter.com/Jean_RED_Grey

    I just finished covering the first 137 issues (1963-1980) of Jean's life in comics, specifically in Uncanny X-Men. I've pinned the thread to the top, and it includes brief descriptions and screenshots of pivotal moments in her early life in comics, starting with the first issue of X-Men #1 and running all the way to the last issue of the Dark Phoenix Saga. I will be continuing this project indefinitely, and plan on covering all of her appearances in comics. Granted, this will take some time to do, but my objective is to have a quick reference guide for her power development. Also, you can just search #JeanGreyFeats on Twitter. Later, I plan to focus on her emotional development and already have an idea for a tag for that: #JeanGreyFeels. We'll see how it goes.

    I look forward to reading more of what you've all got planned.

  11. #26
    Ph.D. in Dudeism GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    Color me intrigued. And feel free to DM me. Also, if "chief" needs more info and resources on Jean and her history, direct her to:

    https://twitter.com/Jean_RED_Grey

    I just finished covering the first 137 issues (1963-1980) of Jean's life in comics, specifically in Uncanny X-Men. I've pinned the thread to the top, and it includes brief descriptions and screenshots of pivotal moments in her early life in comics, starting with the first issue of X-Men #1 and running all the way to the last issue of the Dark Phoenix Saga. I will be continuing this project indefinitely, and plan on covering all of her appearances in comics. Granted, this will take some time to do, but my objective is to have a quick reference guide for her power development. Also, you can just search #JeanGreyFeats on Twitter. Later, I plan to focus on her emotional development and already have an idea for a tag for that: #JeanGreyFeels. We'll see how it goes.

    I look forward to reading more of what you've all got planned.
    That's all awesome, I look forward to what you contribute

    I will soon create threads on others as well, and hopefully we can get this kind of enthusiasm for each X-Man involved.

    Once she finally drops the first short, then I can release the plot of ARC I and that will be very helpful for creating ideas.

  12. #27
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMikey View Post
    That's all awesome, I look forward to what you contribute

    I will soon create threads on others as well, and hopefully we can get this kind of enthusiasm for each X-Man involved.

    Once she finally drops the first short, then I can release the plot of ARC I and that will be very helpful for creating ideas.
    I don't think you'll have any problem getting people to contribute to threads you create centered on other mutants.

  13. #28
    Ph.D. in Dudeism GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    I don't think you'll have any problem getting people to contribute to threads you create centered on other mutants.
    lol I hope so. not too much interest it seems atm. Maybe I just rly have to wait for launch date before anyone can see that it in motion

  14. #29
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    The thing is, as you know, Jean has her own thread and a lot of fans have already shared their ideas on there. Also, I think you're right; if people were to see more of this mysterious project, they would be more forthcoming. Is this something that will be released on youtube?

    Have you ever seen this?


  15. #30
    Ultimate Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMikey View Post
    lol I hope so. not too much interest it seems atm. Maybe I just rly have to wait for launch date before anyone can see that it in motion
    This might be the best option. After the launch, perhaps much interest will be garnered.
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]

    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."


    Like a Red Dragon, The Phoenix shall Soar in 2024!

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