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  1. #1
    Ph.D. in Dudeism GMikey's Avatar
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    Default Brainstorm x-fanime: Jean grey

    This is VERY premature, but I felt this may stir some awesome chatting with fans, and who better to start with than Jean Grey.

    So I've been discussing a lot in various threads about a fan driven Marvel project. The name still hasnt released but lots of promo work has. While the X-Men isn't complete, I will share Jean Grey's character sheet. The story starts off with all the heroes as kids, but a timeskip happens during the Phoenix Trilogy and they're adults moving forward.

    Here's images of Kid Jean Grey, I'll post the adult vers once the completed vers is posted. These are only "character sheets" btw, a full poster would be made at some point soon enough

    KID JEAN GREY (X-UNIFORM)


    KID JEAN GREY (FOR PHOENIX TRILOGY)

    With all that said, I just wanna ask fans, with a story that's NOT associated with Marvel's 616, but as story taking place in its own multiverse, what are ideas you'd wanna see in regards to Jean Grey. Ideas from the primary writer, is to focus more on Jean as a leader of the X-Men, focus more of her as the admin of the Jean Grey School of Higher Learning, and her Psyche Wars with Emma Frost. Madelyn Prior is another villain that is on the table with various ideas of what direction to take her character (some feel she should be an essential villain since Sinister will evolve into being the primary X-villain).

    With that said, what are your ideas, what would you like to see animated, and in a narrative for her in the long run?
    Last edited by GMikey; 07-18-2021 at 02:10 PM.

  2. #2
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Oh, Mikey, Mikey, Mikey...

    I actually want your thread to succeed, but first, you have to continue what you started in the other thread (by the way, was the thread deleted?) and share with us why you're NOT a fan of hers. You left a few big Jean fans like me shocked, hurt, and anticipating your elaboration.

    Please, continue...

    Last edited by Mercury; 07-19-2021 at 07:00 AM.

  3. #3
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    This is GREAT, GMikey!

    There are some "fans" who like to say Jean Grey is not developed in character, personality, etc. Jean was developed in these areas in the past, maybe not so much today? Continuity today of characters, stories, looks, feelings, etc seem to be at the whim of all of the different writers without cohesion, IMHO.

    Like the Kid Jean! How cute.

    Kid Jean Phoenix has the Classic Phoenix costume! Yay! I Hope she has all of the Phoenix powers too!

    I would ask that everyone on here keep a civility about them. If you do not agree, that is okay, but be polite, non-combative and open to new ideas. Otherwise, you do not need to post. Keep your thoughts to yourself. Please, let us have a great thread without all of what I saw and read on another one where GMikey was trying to tell us about characters and the story plot but only got insults thrown at the poster.
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]


    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

  4. #4
    Ph.D. in Dudeism GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    Oh, Mikey, Mikey, Mikey...

    I actually want your thread to succeed, but first, you have to continue what you started in the other thread (by the way, was the thread deleted?) and share with us why you're NOT a fan of hers. You left a few big Jean fans like me shocked, hurt, and anticipating your elaboration.

    Please, continue...
    That thread seemed to have been deleted, but if you insist on further explanation... since I was a kid i always felt Jean was bland and kind of meh. I'm not the only one. despite being born in the 80s my first intro to the X-Men was the 90s series. I understand the series didn't represent the comic character, but I shouldn't have to read the comics to see the character properly represented. That's the producers' fault that she was poorly developed, and I hated it. Then, there were other series like Wolverine and X-Men and Anime X-Men that all revolved too much around her and Phoenix in a way that, didn't appeal to me and didn't warrant me caring about any of it. Skimming through some comics and comic plots here and there, Jean always felt like a "power fantasy" (as a friend said) rather than a character who develops on her own merit.

    Same buddy of mine shared her feelings, stating what turns her off is Jean Grey doesn't feel earned where the Phoenix is concerned, turning her into a "chosen one" cliche. How a cosmic force supposedly representing ALL LIFE, is the nexus of ALL psychic power, and judges the universe at will, can only be wielded in full by ONE human in all of time? what does Jean earn to be that "special", more special than all other humans? (in her words, not mine) She's also a mythology and mysticism buff who went down a line of how and why the Phoenix doesn't work in the realm of actual spirits and cosmic forces. On point I remember, she said in magick of astronomy, ANYONE can harness cosmic powers so long they know how, their will being their only limit. no one human supersedes all others with cosmic and universal forces.

    I've spoken with a few that offered answers that were pretty weak to me, ranging from Phoenix having recreated Jean during the original saga, was able to explore her to the very depths... or, that after "all they've been thru" they have a bond like no one else, to other explainations that are somewhat excuses that can be cut down. If its based on the fact Phoenix recreated Jean down to her persona, it could very well do that with another psychic, and even experience things long enough with someone else that their bond grows infinitely. there's never a good reason the Phoenix and Jean are that bonded. it just feels Mary Sue-ish bc I've not seen HER stand on her own and earn this, and I'm not trying to be hurtful or mean, just expressing how I feel.

    Keep in mind, there are characters you prolly hate for reasons I'd feel is "unfair" but its your personal opinion and you have a right to it. If I dislike Jean Grey for any reason, its my right to do so, the way you might dislike Wolvie, or Gambit, or Storm or whomever. i don't mind discussing it, being enlightened or whatever, but no reason to be upset if someone says they dislike or even "hate" a character. there's ppl who hate Gambit and Logan and I feel bad bc I rly like those characters, but hey that's their opinion, y'kno?

    Now... this fan driven project has already changed my view of the character, in respect to this project. I like what's on the table for Jean's character development, and I like how this pairs with the Phoenix Force. This vers of Jean demonstrates character growth in a much more interesting way, and her role with the Phoenix is one that matures over time, rather than her instantly being such a perfect host (something I'll discuss later in this thread). Most importantly i like how Jean Grey is challenged as a character, not just in power, but in integrity as well, and this opens so opportunity for something special and what I (as well as many others) would like to see.

    Also Phoenixx9 has helped me a lot with appreciating the character more and more, and paired with all he's shared, and all that is coming of this anime series, I feel we'll get the best developed vers of Jean Grey that will rly make me appreciate her character, even like her character and anticipate her continued narrative.

    My quest here, is to ask ppl what what YOU like to see in a fan driven anime Marvel Uni/Multiverse for Jean Grey's character, what are some do's and dont's, and what suggestions could serve as improvements from the canon counterpart

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    A personality of any kind would be a good start. At least then she might be able to stand on her own two feet instead of relying on Cyclops and Wolverine to make her relevant.

  6. #6
    Ph.D. in Dudeism GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    This is GREAT, GMikey!

    There are some "fans" who like to say Jean Grey is not developed in character, personality, etc. Jean was developed in these areas in the past, maybe not so much today? Continuity today of characters, stories, looks, feelings, etc seem to be at the whim of all of the different writers without cohesion, IMHO.

    Like the Kid Jean! How cute.

    Kid Jean Phoenix has the Classic Phoenix costume! Yay! I Hope she has all of the Phoenix powers too!

    I would ask that everyone on here keep a civility about them. If you do not agree, that is okay, but be polite, non-combative and open to new ideas. Otherwise, you do not need to post. Keep your thoughts to yourself. Please, let us have a great thread without all of what I saw and read on another one where GMikey was trying to tell us about characters and the story plot but only got insults thrown at the poster.
    I feel modern writers care too much about wow factor, or grabbing at external audiences, instead of thinking the narrative through. And yes Chief says all the time, there's a grave lack of consensus amongst the writers, thus so many retcons and continuity problems.

    Kid Jean is super cute! I love the artwork, and the artwork is definitely set to evolve a little later into the series. Kid Jean will don the Classic Phoenix costume but her adult vers would wear a modified vers. we'll get plenty of scenes with Phoenix's powers, and I'll offer this, the Phoenix Saga will also follow Jean as she explores the Orb in the center, with scenes of the White City and the White Hot Room! The Phoenix Saga will even be our first time the Phoenix Consciousness makes its appearance.

    I AGREE, please everyone, I do not mind civil discourse and disagreements on certain things, but let's PLEASE keep it classy and act like adults. Also, let's not be so thin skinned and easy to bruise, but don't come here to start a war either. I want a nice thread that discusses what ppl would want to see manifest for Jean in animation, (as I'll speak on multiple characters) and just share ideas

  7. #7
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    When is this fan-fiction or whatever it is actually going to be revealed?

  8. #8
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Mikey, your response coincided with my completion of a summary I have written - admittedly, peppered with some headcanon based on what has been written for her - regarding her connection with the Phoenix Force. I am cleaning it up a bit, but I will share the summary in this and her thread shortly.

    Now, regarding your reply...

    Quote Originally Posted by GMikey View Post
    ...since I was a kid i always felt Jean was bland and kind of meh. I'm not the only one. despite being born in the 80s my first intro to the X-Men was the 90s series. I understand the series didn't represent the comic character, but I shouldn't have to read the comics to see the character properly represented.
    Understandable, but the character shouldn't be prejudged or slighted just because you have not been privy to her original, more authentic incarnations. It's neither the fault of Stan Lee nor the creators fundamental to her development that the cartoon chose to veer so far away from her character as established in the comic books for their interpretation.

    Quote Originally Posted by GMikey View Post
    Same buddy of mine shared her feelings, stating what turns her off is Jean Grey doesn't feel earned where the Phoenix is concerned, turning her into a "chosen one" cliche. How a cosmic force supposedly representing ALL LIFE, is the nexus of ALL psychic power, and judges the universe at will, can only be wielded in full by ONE human in all of time? what does Jean earn to be that "special", more special than all other humans?
    She certainly didn't earn the right to wield the Phoenix Force by participating in a sophomoric WWF-like tournament. Instead, she earned the right by being willing to sacrifice her life for the greater good twice. Furthermore, she is one of the most powerful, if not the most powerful of all psionic beings, as has been stated numerous times in the comic books, which is another reason the Phoenix Force has been so drawn to and preoccupied with her. Her courage, selflessness, and innate power are what make her stand out to the Phoenix Force. Finally, Claremont created the Phoenix Force specifically for Jean, to showcase her power and potential as a psi. Quite frankly, I find it gross that it's been ripped from her and circulated around like an item of clothing. It is an intrinsic part of her mythos, which is one of the things Grant Morrison got absolutely right in his interpretation of her.

    Then again, Jean has not only had her powers stripped from her but she has also been killed on more than one occasion, has had the abuses that were perpetrated on her by Mesmero, Mastermind, and the White Queen - and their emotional ramifications - glossed over as inconsequential; has been cloned, had her entire family slaughtered, her marriage trampled on, and has been seemingly regressed to a version of herself that dates back to the 1960s, though, I dare say she had more spunk and autonomy back then than what they've currently been writing for her.

    Nevertheless, she continues to shine and still has many adoring fans, both in and out of the industry. She is a compelling character to whom one can apply the proverb "still waters run deep."

    Quote Originally Posted by GMikey View Post
    Now... this fan driven project has already changed my view of the character, in respect to this project. I like what's on the table for Jean's character development, and I like how this pairs with the Phoenix Force. This vers of Jean demonstrates character growth in a much more interesting way, and her role with the Phoenix is one that matures over time, rather than her instantly being such a perfect host (something I'll discuss later in this thread). Most importantly i like how Jean Grey is challenged as a character, not just in power, but in integrity as well, and this opens so opportunity for something special and what I (as well as many others) would like to see. ... Also Phoenixx9 has helped me a lot with appreciating the character more and more, and paired with all he's shared, and all that is coming of this anime series, I feel we'll get the best developed vers of Jean Grey that will rly make me appreciate her character, even like her character and anticipate her continued narrative. ...My quest here, is to ask ppl what what YOU like to see in a fan driven anime Marvel Uni/Multiverse for Jean Grey's character, what are some do's and dont's, and what suggestions could serve as improvements from the canon counterpart
    Admittedly, this does sound interesting and your "quest" is endearing. I look forward to reading more of your thoughts and ideas

  9. #9
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    From the Jean thread:

    Okay, so I've fleshed out part of how I view Jean's connection with the Phoenix Force. Tell me what you all think - if you agree or disagree - and why:

    Jean Grey transcended the physical plane when she used the totality of her psionic power to pilot a doomed space shuttle containing her and her team. As she shielded herself and the shuttle from cosmic radiation, her sheer force of will enkindled the manifestation of the near-full capacity of her telepathic and telekinetic abilities. In her supreme exertion, she became pure psionic energy. Resultingly, her essence began to transcend her physical form and the material plane as a whole, causing her body to wither due to the radiation that pummeled it. Unprepared for such a shift in perspective and consciousness, she let out a reverberating psychic cry. Already familiar with Jean since her prepubescence, her bellow, coupled with her purity of heart, soul, and intent, compelled the Phoenix Force to come to her aid, protecting her body and essence from both the ravages of radiation and her own unbridled power. It fashioned a new body for her, placing her old body in a cocoon and fusing her essence with the clone, which it also inhabited to stabilize and reinforce the binding. Thus, the union between Jean Grey and the Phoenix Force was complete.

    However, it was a union the Phoenix Force intended to sustain only through the duration of Jeanís psychic and physical rehabilitation, and adjustment to her quickened power advancement. Later, when Mesmero hypnotized her and Mastermind, with the help of the White Queen, penetrated her mind, it was the Phoenix Force that prevented either of their powers from taking complete control of Jeanís psyche. Unfortunately, still reeling from her experience on the shuttle, Jean was further traumatized by the insidious interruption of her healing and the psychic violations perpetrated against her. Additionally, incited by Jeanís pain and trauma and engaged by the abusive behavior she was subjected to, the Phoenix Forceís destructive side, i.e., one aspect of its raison d'Ítre Ė to burn away the defective and obsolete Ė was initiated. Although Jean fought to repress both, her trauma and the Phoenix Forceís instinctive destructiveness overwhelmed her. Her pain and anger and its wrath merged into a primal rage that became addictive in its search for recompense and sanctification.

    Later, to protect both her friends and the cosmos at large, Jean killed herself on the Blue Area of the Moon. In that instant, Jeanís mind, heart, and soul synchronized and revolted against her own trauma-induced rage and addiction and the Phoenix Forceís wrathful reflex to destroy what it deemed flawed and deficient, killing the clone it had created for her. But, recognizing the selfless, courageous, and transcendent nature of what Jean had done for a second time, the Phoenix Force chose to preserve her essence, returning it to her former body, which lay encased in the cocoon it had created at the bottom of Jamaica Bay. Furthermore, the Phoenix Force imparted a fragment of itself to Jean so that she could continue to heal more rapidly than she would on her own. Since then, it has attempted on various occasions to fully unite with her once more. But Jean, not having fully faced and healed from the trauma she endured either on the shuttle, at the hands of sadists, and when possessed by the Phoenix Forceís darkest facet, has chosen to reject it on most occasions.

    Only time will tell if and when Jean will accept her bond with the Phoenix Force, which will always remain a part of her, even if only dormant.

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    Does Madelyn have to be a villain in every AU? The only reason she became a villain in the first place was because she was character assassinated in order to salvage Scott from his own character assassination. Why can't there be stories where she remains the X-Men ally who heroically sacrificed her life to save the world even though she didn't have any powers?

  11. #11
    Ph.D. in Dudeism GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OmegaStorm87 View Post
    When is this fan-fiction or whatever it is actually going to be revealed?
    Well it was supposed to be between July and August but that may get pushed back, due to involvement with Marvel believe it or not. Marvel personnel HAS taken interest in the project, but the chief writer has asked that she do it herself with the fandom so we all could see how it takes off, before discussing anything further involvement.

    Quote Originally Posted by OmegaStorm87 View Post
    A personality of any kind would be a good start. At least then she might be able to stand on her own two feet instead of relying on Cyclops and Wolverine to make her relevant.
    what's actually good, the chief writer said that she actually REALLY disliked Jean grey before doing this project (due to how writers handled the character), but she used her "negative feelings" to inspire her to rewrite and refine Jean with more depth, and much more character development than just the constant highlight of her as Phoenix. Personality wise on the table, Jean would be shown as smart, very thoughtful, and is always engaged with the gang, sometimes to a level of being micromanaging. She also takes issues with ppl that can are immune to her psionic probing and this manifests certain hidden vices unknown even to her. She's inspired by Xavier to use her powers to help Mutants, esp in helping them realize their powers constructively to better the image of Mutants. However, being raised fairly normal compared to other mutant children, even having "normal" looks, she sometimes isn't aware of the state of other mutants and why they make "bad" choices (Spyke being an example). She has to learn deeper levels of compassion, and to not always judge certain people solely on their actions. the Dark Phoenix saga would be used to prove to her, no one is perfect nor immune to mistakes, and she would revisit her time as Dark Phoenix to introspect, and see how to improve even greater as a person, despite already being very loving and kind.

    the Chief writer also wants to focus on her as a leader (esp as an adult) and mentor, how she has to hold the team together after falling apart (due to tragedy, and misunderstandigns), facing new menaces on the horizon, and her psyche wars with Emma Frost. There's also Magneto that Jean partially has to face, as well as certain Avengers.

    Another interesting thing is how she learns to learn from that which she doesn't or cannot understand. Despite her vast psychic abilities, even them being limitless in potential, as Phoenix she has to learn to overcome (and sometimes even join forces) with opposition (of new concepts) that's beyond her barometer of her immediate power. this is something I really like. instead of just being infinitely powerful, presenting before her something beyond her and even the Phoenix Force itself, grants one really interesting narrative to force her even at her best, to figure out other means of combat... or sometimes realizing maybe the opposition isn't meant to be "defeated", maybe the seemingly menacing opposition may actually be the very key the whole world needs. I like these concepts and I feel this would add a lot to her character, and personality

  12. #12
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Based on OmegaStorm87’s reply and your response to it, GMikey, I also want to add that, since the very beginning, one of Jean’s most prominent and consistent character traits has been her assertiveness. See several examples below. I know I’m being a ruthless fan on steroids but I can’t help myself, lol.






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