Anyone else feels like 2011-2020 was Dan DiDio's insane fanfic and now...

[sifighter]

I thought that at first. But seeing Infinite Frontier has been playing out, I think its far more based on 5G than anyone ever anticipated. Thing is, while all of what you said is accurate, that was what Didio was doing before. That was the Didio of 10+ years ago. 5G was a different animal, he was doing something different. Still managing to also do that wrong, imo, but still different. That's what I think the new regime is adapting. Thus why I still think this has Didios fingerprints all over it. Just the fingerprints of his altered mindset when it came to crafting 5G.

Yeah its a little hard to argue against that when we have all-new Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman (Yara), Green Lantern (Jo), Aquaman (Jackson/Kaldur), and I guess Wally West (look I know he's a classic and people should read Mark Waid's run, but he pretty much just took up the mantle after 10 years of Barry who some see as the original now).

[Sacred Knight]

Its funny, the only property that I feel like is doing new character/legacy right recently is Aquaman as it specifically pertains to Andy. This is how you introduce a kid, or just any character to represent a future generation. Is it immediate in its effect? No. But that's the point, it builds on the stars, while building a new generation and new characters within it should take time. It doesn't force some direction instantaneously like they did with Superman. I know Arthur is getting the same treatment anyway by way of Jackson, but still, just in regards to his biological child, they did it well there. Its what a married Superman and Lois deserved if they were going to go back to that, but didn't get.

[MajorHoy]

Yeah its a little hard to argue against that when we have all-new Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman (Yara), Green Lantern (Jo), Aquaman (Jackson/Kaldur), and I guess Wally West (look I know he's a classic and people should read Mark Waid's run, but he pretty much just took up the mantle after 10 years of Barry who some see as the original now).

I'm still trying to figure out what you mean by that.

[sifighter]

I'm still trying to figure out what you mean by that.

I just mean that since basically 2010/11, Barry Allen has been the main flash in the comics and TV/Movies. Now Wally is back, he is in my opinion a Classic character (the original kid flash, and the Flash who I have known since I was a kid) but now Infinite Frontier has treated it more as "here is our new Flash" instead of "Wally has returned"

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

I thought that at first. But seeing Infinite Frontier has been playing out, I think its far more based on 5G than anyone ever anticipated. Thing is, while all of what you said is accurate, that was what Didio was doing before. That was the Didio of 10+ years ago. 5G was a different animal, he was doing something different. Whether the changed mindset was something he truly believed in, or whether it was a last ditch effort, it was wholly different from his usual MO nonetheless. That's what I think the new regime is adapting. Thus why I still think this has Didios fingerprints all over it. Just the fingerprints of his altered mindset when it came to crafting 5G. And to me, it just doesn't work. Replacement doesn't jive with me and that looks to still be what they're driving toward.

IF is going too far in the other direction. If the Didio of the past erased texture by erasing too much legacy, IF/5G is erasing texture by minimizing the classics for the sake of brand new legacy I can't bring myself to care a lick about outside of a very select few.

You have a point, BUT this differs from Didio's original plans for 5G in a MASSIVE way. It is happening mostly to the Pre-FP characters and DCU. When Didio planned to have Superboy take the reins of the Suicide Squad, I don't think he wanted the same Conner Kent we all knew from before 2011. I think he was envisioning the Kon El who was created by Project N.O.W.H.E.R.E.

The Conner we're seeing now is NOT that guy. This Conner is the same Conner who debuted during the Death of Superman, was on Young Justice, and then the Teen Titans from 2003 with Bart, Tim, Cassie, Starfire, Victor, and Gar.

So, I would say that this IS the Pre-Flashpoint continuity returned, just now entering a new phase.

Also, if I may point out something you said earlier, I wouldn't say that the legacy is "forced" when it's simply bringing back the things that existed before 2011 that had been built up over decades of storytelling. Honestly, the whole idea that THAT somehow detracts from new readers enjoying the story makes no sense.

Nobody expects you to have a PhD in DC Comics history to jump onto a story arc. You can pick up Infinite Frontier not knowing who Jade and Obsidian are or never having read anything with them in it and still very much enjoy it just because it's a well-written story. If you want to look up who they are on the internet later, go for it. If not, then don't. The story does not hinge on you knowing their entire character histories. And at the same time, they should not be erased from DC continuity simply because a hypothetical new reader, who may or may not pick up the title, doesn't know who they are. That's a slap in the face to everyone who DOES know who they are and who actually HAS read DC Comics before.

[king81992]

I'm not the biggest fan of Didio, but looking back on things, DC didn't enter 'insane fanfic territory' until Snyder wrote Metal and its successor, Death Metal.

[DrNewGod]

This is what blows my mind about DC: they've managed to splinter almost every fan base they have into zero-sum factions.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Does anyone have a link to the 5G plans that got Dan D canned? I was kinda checked out at that point

[Drako]

You have a point, BUT this differs from Didio's original plans for 5G in a MASSIVE way. It is happening mostly to the Pre-FP characters and DCU. When Didio planned to have Superboy take the reins of the Suicide Squad, I don't think he wanted the same Conner Kent we all knew from before 2011. I think he was envisioning the Kon El who was created by Project N.O.W.H.E.R.E.

The Conner we're seeing now is NOT that guy. This Conner is the same Conner who debuted during the Death of Superman, was on Young Justice, and then the Teen Titans from 2003 with Bart, Tim, Cassie, Starfire, Victor, and Gar.

We don't know this for certain.
Look for the SS August Annual and SS cover for October to see what i'm talking about, if you don't mind possible spoilers.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

We don't know this for certain.
Look for the SS August Annual and SS cover for October to see what i'm talking about, if you don't mind possible spoilers.

Nah, dude. It’s already been confirmed in the pages of the comic. In one panel, he looks at a photo of him, Tim, Bart, and Cassie from their Teen Titans days in Titans Tower.

Whatever the truth of his origin revealed in the SS annual, the “true Superboy” is still the guy who did all those things and remembers that history.

[charliehustle415]

...with Infinite Frontier the real DCU is back?


It feels like a lost decade: They spent the first half of the 2010s destroying everything people loved and the second trying to reconstruct it in spite of stuff like Heroes in Crisis. But now with DiDio gone we are back to where we were in 2010 (plus whatever good developments came from New 52/Rebirth) and now we can truly move again. The JSA is back, Post-Crisis Superman married with Lois is back (he's been back for a while, I know), Wally is back, Connor Hawke is back, Barbara is back as Oracle (plus she gets to be Batgirl too!), the history is back. While I don't love every title, Infinite Frontier feels again like the DCU I loved: A place that feels lived-in and with storie histories.

I don't think it was "lost" per se, a lot of it was good, some of it was bad.

Old heads didn't wanna let go which is understandable - I mean continuity was (and is currently) ruined.

But to new readers or readers who don't really care about continuity (like me) this was an exciting time to be a DC Comics fan.

Now of course there were some really bad decisions like keeping Batman & Green Lantern's continuity and not allowing Morrison to finish his run but over all it was a very exciting time to simply read superhero comics without the baggage of continuity.

[Drako]

Nah, dude. It’s already been confirmed in the pages of the comic. In one panel, he looks at a photo of him, Tim, Bart, and Cassie from their Teen Titans days in Titans Tower.

Whatever the truth of his origin revealed in the SS annual, the “true Superboy” is still the guy who did all those things and remembers that history.

Oh, you're were saying that the 90's version would not exist in Didios universe, got it.

I was saying that the Superboy current in Suicide Squad might be a clone of the original one. But that is speculation until we know more.

[lemonpeace]

I'm not the biggest fan of Didio, but looking back on things, DC didn't enter 'insane fanfic territory' until Snyder wrote Metal and its successor, Death Metal.

cap. Metal and Death Metal are direct descendants of Johns' and Morrison' storytelling. both Johns and Morrison were the most overtly fanfic-ian writers at DC during their peak, both playing big parts in popularizing super overt fanservice (i.e "fanfic") and the fixation on DC's meta being part of the story. mind you, not saying that's a net bad nor that they were the first writers to ever do this at DC, but you definitely notice a frequency increase post Johns & Morrison and you can see a direct throughline between their storytelling and Snyder's.

[king81992]

cap. Metal and Death Metal are direct descendants of Johns' and Morrison' storytelling. both Johns and Morrison were the most overtly fanfic-ian writers at DC during their peak, both playing big parts in popularizing super overt fanservice (i.e "fanfic") and the fixation on DC's meta being part of the story. mind you, not saying that's a net bad nor that they were the first writers to ever do this at DC, but you definitely notice a frequency increase post Johns & Morrison and you can see a direct throughline between their storytelling and Snyder's.

Morrison has interesting concepts, but his writing always felt '2 deep for you', lots of symbolism and metaphors, but something always felt missing.

Johns gets a lot of praise, but he played a role in the degradation of YJ and the 'another Titan dies' trend. What Lobdell did in New 52 was started by Johns.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Morrison has interesting concepts, but his writing always felt '2 deep for you', lots of symbolism and metaphors, but something always felt missing.

Johns gets a lot of praise, but he played a role in the degradation of YJ and the 'another Titan dies' trend. What Lobdell did in New 52 was started by Johns.

Morrison's symbolism, after his JLA, often lacks internal logic.

His X-Men is the best but not only example. For example, Cyclop's eye-beams are something he can't shut off. They are involuntary, and have been since the beginning. Yet, when Morrison needed a metaphor for impotence, suddenly Cyke can't shoot.

Another example was the first appearance of Fantomex. He bragged, to a telekinetic about the telepathy jammer on his head...and nothing happens.

Like Alan Moore, later writers have tried to follow him, and did so poorly