Anyone else feels like 2011-2020 was Dan DiDio's insane fanfic and now...

[Maxi]

...with Infinite Frontier the real DCU is back?


It feels like a lost decade: They spent the first half of the 2010s destroying everything people loved and the second trying to reconstruct it in spite of stuff like Heroes in Crisis. But now with DiDio gone we are back to where we were in 2010 (plus whatever good developments came from New 52/Rebirth) and now we can truly move again. The JSA is back, Post-Crisis Superman married with Lois is back (he's been back for a while, I know), Wally is back, Connor Hawke is back, Barbara is back as Oracle (plus she gets to be Batgirl too!), the history is back. While I don't love every title, Infinite Frontier feels again like the DCU I loved: A place that feels lived-in and with storie histories.

[Vakanai]

I kinda liked young Superman...

And I like Barbara as Batgirl more than Oracle.

[Korath]

Honestly, most of the reasons I find the current DCU bearable as a whole is because of whatever remains of New 52, new characters entirely (like Naomi) or some already kind of established characters being allowed to displace older ones from their mantles, forcing those into new stories which was sorely needed (such as Clark and Jon Kent, Jackson Hyde and Arthur, etc.).

But I have 0 interest in anything JSA related, and I'd rather DC focused on the Justice Incarnate characters than those old teams who have, IMHO, no place of worth in the current comics medium.

[HsssH]

I think that most of the things that have direct ties to Infinite Frontier have been either underwhelming or bad so far.

[sifighter]

I mean I would hate to trash anyone, and there was stuff in the new 52 that I actually enjoyed and turned me into a fan of characters and creators that I never read before......but yeah I have to agree about a return to a DC I like to see. I mean characters that I like are back and I feel like history and connections between characters have returns. Personally I'm just excited too look forward and see what is new comes our way out of Infinite Frontier.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Honestly, most of the reasons I find the current DCU bearable as a whole is because of whatever remains of New 52, new characters entirely (like Naomi) or some already kind of established characters being allowed to displace older ones from their mantles, forcing those into new stories which was sorely needed (such as Clark and Jon Kent, Jackson Hyde and Arthur, etc.).

This is actually an ironic statement considering that the New 52 erased most of the legacy characters that had taken over the mantles of older, Silver Age characters. Characters like Cassandra Cain, Stephanie Brown, Connor Hawke, Shilo Norman, Kendra Saunders, Conner Kent, etc. It also erased most of the BIPOC and/or LGBTQ characters in the DCU, like Obsidian, Kimiyo Hoshi Dr. Light, Jennifer and Anissa Pierce, Grace Choi, etc.

Also, Jackson Hyde existed before he New 52. He was introduced in Brightest Day. And I don't think we can credit the New 52 with Jon Kent's existence, since he was famously introduced as the son of Pre-Flashpoint Clark Kent and Lois Lane. New 52 Superman wasn't even with Lois.

So, yeah, it's kind of ironic that you'd credit the New 52 with these things, when it arguably didn't accomplish any of these things and set DC back in these regards.

But I have 0 interest in anything JSA related, and I'd rather DC focused on the Justice Incarnate characters than those old teams who have, IMHO, no place of worth in the current comics medium.

The fact that they have such a devoted fanbase that wants to see them and they're receiving attention in outside media means that they absolutely do have a place of worth in the current comics medium.

[MajorHoy]

. . . And I don't think we can credit the New 52 with Jon Kent's existence, since he was famously introduced as the son of Pre-Flashpoint Clark Kent and Lois Lane. New 52 Superman wasn't even with Lois...

However, Jon was introduced/born during Convergence, an event during the New52 run. And the series with him and his parents on the then-current DC Earth (Superman: Lois & Clark) was published during the DCYou phase.

So the fact that his parents were originally from the pre-Flashpoint continuity means nothing in Jon's case.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

However, Jon was introduced/born during Convergence, an event during the New52 run. And the series with him and his parents on the then-current DC Earth (Superman: Lois & Clark) was published during the DCYou phase.

So the fact that his parents were originally from the pre-Flashpoint continuity means nothing in Jon's case.

No, I'm pretty sure it does because the whole point of the New 52 was rebooting the universe with a fresh slate with no referencing story or character developments pre-2011. That means, obviously, no marriage between Lois and Clark.

The reason that the Lois & Clark miniseries was even published was that, by that point, it'd become clear that the New 52 was not going over well with most fans and was unsustainable. So, DC introduced a bit of Pre-Flashpoint nostalgia. And THEN, in the Rebirth Era, THAT'S when Jon and a remarried Lois and Clark were reintroduced into the main DC Universe.

So, if there's anything that should be credited for Jon's introduction, it'd be fans' wish to return to Pre-Flashpoint and Rebirth. You know, that thing that was pretty much the beginning of the end of the New 52 continuity...

[Korath]

This is actually an ironic statement considering that the New 52 erased most of the legacy characters that had taken over the mantles of older, Silver Age characters. Characters like Cassandra Cain, Stephanie Brown, Connor Hawke, Shilo Norman, Kendra Saunders, Conner Kent, etc. It also erased most of the BIPOC and/or LGBTQ characters in the DCU, like Obsidian, Kimiyo Hoshi Dr. Light, Jennifer and Anissa Pierce, Grace Choi, etc.

Also, Jackson Hyde existed before he New 52. He was introduced in Brightest Day. And I don't think we can credit the New 52 with Jon Kent's existence, since he was famously introduced as the son of Pre-Flashpoint Clark Kent and Lois Lane. New 52 Superman wasn't even with Lois.

So, yeah, it's kind of ironic that you'd credit the New 52 with these things, when it arguably didn't accomplish any of these things and set DC back in these regards.

The fact that they have such a devoted fanbase that wants to see them and they're receiving attention in outside media means that they absolutely do have a place of worth in the current comics medium.

Three rabid fans in an echo chamber do not a devoted fanbase make. It can probably sustain a mini-series or something, but it's not a franchise with the legs for an ongoing - and DC comics should move away from ongoings as much as possible. Give creators who want to play with specific characters a mini to really run wild.

And yeah, New 52 didn't do everything right, of course. But I still prefer this era to most of what came out of Rebirth save stuff which leaned heavily on New 52 (like Red Hood and the Outlaws) and feel like Infinite Frontier is better when it focus on the New 52 vibe, not on Rebirth.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Three rabid fans in an echo chamber do not a devoted fanbase make. It can probably sustain a mini-series or something, but it's not a franchise with the legs for an ongoing - and DC comics should move away from ongoings as much as possible. Give creators who want to play with specific characters a mini to really run wild.

Well, again, I think you're belittling the actual amount of support and following these characters have. DC wouldn't have felt any pressure to bring them back into continuity if it truly was only three total fans.

Also, again, pretty sure that the JSA wouldn't be the focus of an entire CW series like Stargirl or be appearing in the upcoming Black Adam film if nobody cared about them...

I don't get the hostility toward these characters' very existence.

And yeah, New 52 didn't do everything right, of course. But I still prefer this era to most of what came out of Rebirth save stuff which leaned heavily on New 52 (like Red Hood and the Outlaws) and feel like Infinite Frontier is better when it focuses on the New 52 vibe, not on Rebirth.

I honestly cannot think of any New 52 vibe that Infinite Frontier has focused on, if only because most of the characters at the center of Infinite Frontier didn't exist during the New 52. Infinite Frontier is very much giving off classic DC Universe vibes, and I think it's better for that.

Bottom line: the New 52 was not really a good time for DC. It really only reflected what one guy wanted, a guy who is no longer even at the company.

[Tzigone]

...with Infinite Frontier the real DCU is back?


It feels like a lost decade: They spent the first half of the 2010s destroying everything people loved and the second trying to reconstruct it in spite of stuff like Heroes in Crisis. But now with DiDio gone we are back to where we were in 2010 (plus whatever good developments came from New 52/Rebirth) and now we can truly move again. The JSA is back, Post-Crisis Superman married with Lois is back (he's been back for a while, I know), Wally is back, Connor Hawke is back, Barbara is back as Oracle (plus she gets to be Batgirl too!), the history is back. While I don't love every title, Infinite Frontier feels again like the DCU I loved: A place that feels lived-in and with storie histories.

I haven't been reading for ages (and mostly only ever read in backissues, so am attached to characterizations/status quos in different eras). While some of this sounds good (yay Connor), my impression is that they put Barry on a bus - that's not okay with me. I do love old-school silver-age Barry and want to see him, and see him in the main universe, with Ralph and Hal and so forth. Plus the reverted (unless they've unreverted again) to Dinah-is-the-daughter-of-Dinah, which I've never liked.

Did they go back to ******* Ollie? Don't care for that. And Jon Kent - what's with him? I do like him, and don't want him out of Lois and Clark's story.

Are the kids (Lian, Jai and Irey, etc.) back, too? I love daddy!Roy. Jai and Irey, I admit, I'd rather age normally, but as long as Wally and Linda have them, that's good.

[MajorHoy]

Actually, I was reading and enjoying more DC comic books during the New52 than I am now. And while I did like some of the stuff that followed from Rebirth, what I liked usually got cancelled or had a change in direction / writers that was not anything I cared for.

[king81992]

Its hard to tell if Infinite Frontier will be better or worse than 2011-2020. I'm not a fan of some directions(Titans Academy and the set up for a variety of bad ends we saw in Future State for multiple characters/ franchises) and the teasing of an upcoming Crisis.

A lot of the stuff feels like empty fanservice that's there to placate disillusioned fans and has no bearings on the overarching plot.

[Tzigone]

Its hard to tell if Infinite Frontier will be better or worse than 2011-2020. I'm not a fan of some directions(Titans Academy and the set up for a variety of bad ends we saw in Future State for multiple characters/ franchises) and the teasing of an upcoming Crisis.

I'm not fond of the idea of Titans Academy, so haven't read it. I am sick to death of futures (inevitably dark) being brought in. It's meaningless. It's never going to happen. It's a plotline that's never going to go anywhere, unlikely to have a long-term consequence, tends towards the gritty and "shocking" flavor, and it's not entertaining for me to read. Stories in the here and and now, with no alternate and no future versions of characters would be nice.

[king81992]

I'm not fond of the idea of Titans Academy, so haven't read it. I am sick to death of futures (inevitably dark) being brought in. It's meaningless. It's never going to happen. It's a plotline that's never going to go anywhere, unlikely to have a long-term consequence, tends towards the gritty and "shocking" flavor, and it's not entertaining for me to read. Stories in the here and and now, with no alternate and no future versions of characters would be nice.

Titans Academy's biggest problem isn't the bad future, its the lack of focus on the Titans and the shilling of Red X, who should've been introduced into comic canon much earlier. Outside of 'who is Red X?' and hopefully preventing the bad end we saw in Future State are the only things the series has going for it.