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  1. #31
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I never bought that. The danger isn't to any of these superheroes. It's to the world at large. Unless they're fighting up against someone like Thanos, I'm not really watching to see the heroes themselves fear losing their own lives.

    And seeing an UP hero somehow survive a bunch of alien attacks or other such massive destruction tends to break immersion for me
    Fair enough, I suppose ultimately it's about what an audience want: pure power fantasy or stakes

    I think there's room for both and the early movies have done great in conveying some of the later movies not so much

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    Fair enough, I suppose ultimately it's about what an audience want: pure power fantasy or stakes

    I think there's room for both and the early movies have done great in conveying some of the later movies not so much
    I don't even really want a power fantasy. I just don't feel the stakes when someone without enough power manages to defeat supposedly more advanced forces. That, to me, removes the stakes, because the threat feels less dangerous. I didn't really buy it in the early movies either.

    And I don't really need every movie to be a big catastrophe/battle anyway. Smaller stuff works too.

  3. #33
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I don't even really want a power fantasy. I just don't feel the stakes when someone without enough power manages to defeat supposedly more advanced forces. That, to me, removes the stakes, because the threat feels less dangerous. I didn't really buy it in the early movies either.

    And I don't really need every movie to be a big catastrophe/battle anyway. Smaller stuff works too.
    When I think of "stakes" I think of Die Hard and when I think of "power fantasy" I think of Die Hard 4.

    The former has a human cop that routinely gets hurt, is fallible, and makes mistakes; the latter has a superhuman cop take down a helicopter with a car and ride on top of a F-35 fighter jet.

    The MCU tried doing it in the early films by giving Stark PTSD, Clint's family in AoU, and Natasha's Red Room trauma.

    Then they kinda forgot about all of that and are now bringing it back again.

    I definitely like smaller stuff, because you can't go bigger than Endgame; I say let's save big battles for the Avengers movies.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    When I think of "stakes" I think of Die Hard and when I think of "power fantasy" I think of Die Hard 4.

    The former has a human cop that routinely gets hurt, is fallible, and makes mistakes; the latter has a superhuman cop take down a helicopter with a car and ride on top of a F-35 fighter jet.

    The MCU tried doing it in the early films by giving Stark PTSD, Clint's family in AoU, and Natasha's Red Room trauma.

    Then they kinda forgot about all of that and are now bringing it back again.

    I definitely like smaller stuff, because you can't go bigger than Endgame; I say let's save big battles for the Avengers movies.
    I see what you mean, but Die Hard and the MCU aren't really the same though. The MCU will always have some level of irreality.

    And the recent MCU has dealt with characters' emotions to some extent. I don't feel it was totally lost during the big events. It's just a lot of the side characters didn't get enough focus. And Clint's family was a terrible idea to begin with.

  5. #35
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I see what you mean, but Die Hard and the MCU aren't really the same though. The MCU will always have some level of irreality.

    And the recent MCU has dealt with characters' emotions to some extent. I don't feel it was totally lost during the big events. It's just a lot of the side characters didn't get enough focus. And Clint's family was a terrible idea to begin with.
    Totally, we'll see how the future movies play it.

    I only enjoy Clint's family simply because of Endgame - so heart wrenching

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    Totally, we'll see how the future movies play it.

    I only enjoy Clint's family simply because of Endgame - so heart wrenching
    It's a good scene, but I wish I cared before hand. Contrast his family scenes with Scott's, or even Tony's, Wanda's or Vision's, and we see much better versions.

  7. #37
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    It's a good scene, but I wish I cared before hand. Contrast his family scenes with Scott's, or even Tony's, Wanda's or Vision's, and we see much better versions.
    Admittedly those characters got solo movies or Disney+ shows, which Clint will also be getting.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Admittedly those characters got solo movies or Disney+ shows, which Clint will also be getting.
    Yeah, but after the MCU tried to make us care about his family. All those characters we saw spend time with their families as the MCU progressed.

  9. #39
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    What's done is done. There is no should've, would've, could've, especially when it's all said and done and all of it comes from the benefit of hindsight. Plus none of us where there during these decision making processes to truly know what went into makes these movie. You think if people had all these brilliant ideas for how it 'should' have been done then they would have pitched them when these movies were being developed, not after all the dust has settled.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    What's done is done. There is no should've, would've, could've, especially when it's all said and done and all of it comes from the benefit of hindsight. Plus none of us where there during these decision making processes to truly know what went into makes these movie. You think if people had all these brilliant ideas for how it 'should' have been done then they would have pitched them when these movies were being developed, not after all the dust has settled.
    I don't exactly follow what you're saying. It's not like the MCU hasn't made questionable or imperfect decisions.

  11. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    What's done is done. There is no should've, would've, could've, especially when it's all said and done and all of it comes from the benefit of hindsight. Plus none of us where there during these decision making processes to truly know what went into makes these movie. You think if people had all these brilliant ideas for how it 'should' have been done then they would have pitched them when these movies were being developed, not after all the dust has settled.
    We're a fan forum. If we aren't arguing about what could've been what else would we be doing....

    Don't take it that seriously and let the OP write their little fanfic.

    PS. The OP should definetely write a fanfic based off this. It be a more productive use of their time. .

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by the illustrious mr. kenway View Post
    MindofShadow is right. You'd either have give their own film or retool an existing film for them.

    I heard a rumor that Fiege wanted a few sequels before Avengers. But Incredible Hulk underperformed at the box office and those sequels were cut. So if those sequels did happen, I'd put Goliath and Wasp there. They would be secondary characters.
    Not sure about that. Phase 1 was announced like the Monday after IM 1 was released. We already knew IH was coming, but IM 2, Thor, Cap and Avengers were all announced at the same time. The only thing that was changed was that Avengers was pushed back a year.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-i...29401020080505

  13. #43
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I don't exactly follow what you're saying. It's not like the MCU hasn't made questionable or imperfect decisions.
    Read slowly.

    Quote Originally Posted by the illustrious mr. kenway View Post
    We're a fan forum. If we aren't arguing about what could've been what else would we be doing....

    Don't take it that seriously and let the OP write their little fanfic.

    PS. The OP should definetely write a fanfic based off this. It be a more productive use of their time. .
    Fan fictions, criticisms and debates are fine but the 'they shoulda' posts put me off especially when nobody was coming up with this stuff when the movies were in development. Be more productive with your creative energy is all I'm saying.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    Read slowly.
    I did. Perhaps you should be more clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    Fan fictions, criticisms and debates are fine but the 'they shoulda' posts put me off especially when nobody was coming up with this stuff when the movies were in development. Be more productive with your creative energy is all I'm saying.
    Are you suggesting fans should've come up with these ideas and went to Marvel Studios and told them to do that? Really?

  15. #45
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    Nah, Nat and Clint are infinitely more interesting to me in both comics and MCU. However it came about, the MCU Avengers roster is just fine.

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