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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyriVerse View Post
    Which we sort of got.



    That's just a nice way of saying they shouldn't have been there at all.
    It was more of an Ant-Man movie featuring Wasp

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by newparisian View Post
    But if memory serves, even Busiek didn't really use her prominently.
    I think I used her pretty prominently.

    She was the team leader in AVENGERS FOREVER, which was fairly prominent role.

    She also got a fair amount of spotlight in the Ultron Unlimited story, and the "two Hanks" storyline as well.

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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt Busiek View Post
    I think I used her pretty prominently.

    She was the team leader in AVENGERS FOREVER, which was fairly prominent role.

    She also got a fair amount of spotlight in the Ultron Unlimited story, and the "two Hanks" storyline as well.

    kdb
    Interesting. I'll have to reread those to see what makes Janet tick and stand out.
    Thanks.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by newparisian View Post
    Technically, most of the GotG crew don't have powers either and that's not a spy franchise.
    Of the movie GOTG crew, the only members with no powers are Quill (sort of) and Rocket. Everyone else absolutely has powers.

  5. #80
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunkelzahn View Post
    Whedon wanted to get Wasp into the first Avengers but it didn't get very far. But he had the actress already chosen^^.
    The main reason was as you said that explaining her would not really work in a movie like that.
    I knew Whedon wanted to use Wasp, but marvel told him no. I didn't know he wanted Summer Glau though. It is sort of like how Gunn really wanted to use Bug in the first Guardians movie, but got shot down. Maybe they though that with Gamora and Drax they already had enough green skinned characters on the team. Ah what could have been...


  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by davew128 View Post
    Of the movie GOTG crew, the only members with no powers are Quill (sort of) and Rocket. Everyone else absolutely has powers.
    And both have jet packs and blasters which can compensate for that

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by davew128 View Post
    Of the movie GOTG crew, the only members with no powers are Quill (sort of) and Rocket. Everyone else absolutely has powers.
    In the movies, what powers do Gamora and Drax have? They're just aliens with guns and knives, no?

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by newparisian View Post
    In the movies, what powers do Gamora and Drax have? They're just aliens with guns and knives, no?
    Gamora has enhanced speed and strength. Heck in GOTG2 she threw the ship's gun on her shoulder like a sack of potatoes and fired it at Nebula. Drax clearly has superhuman strength and durability as evidence by his surviving landing on that planet while tethered to the ship. Neither is as strong as their comic version.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by davew128 View Post
    Gamora has enhanced speed and strength. Heck in GOTG2 she threw the ship's gun on her shoulder like a sack of potatoes and fired it at Nebula. Drax clearly has superhuman strength and durability as evidence by his surviving landing on that planet while tethered to the ship. Neither is as strong as their comic version.
    Ah yes, thanks.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by newparisian View Post
    Interesting. I'll have to reread those to see what makes Janet tick and stand out.
    Thanks.
    You should! Busiek's run on the Avengers, and Avengers Forever are some of the best comic book stories I have ever read! I particularly love Jan in these, as she's portrayed as such a good leader. Yes, she was an item with Hank at that point, but it never was shown as a co-dependant situation. Hank could have not been there, and Jan would still have her place, and the other way around also.

    As to standing out, it all depends on you. Some things that vibrate with someone might not be that impressive to others. For instance, I like to see women in control and in command, without being reminded every two seconds that "wow, she's a woman! and she's in command!". I liked the relationship Busiek wrote between Jan and Hank, equal and respectful without all the bagage that other writers seem to like to drag on even after everything has been resolved.
    "You don't raise yourself by stepping on somebody else"

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  11. #86
    Astonishing Member Mary Jay's Avatar
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    The team Feige et al. decided to go with for the Avengers in the MCU seemed to work just fine. As a fan, of course I would have preferred to have Janet and Hank in the first movie, but I also like Widow and Clint. Honestly I prefer Clint over BW, but that's mainly because of the fans back in the days that complained constantly (to put it mildly) that Ant-Man was getting a movie before BW...

    Could they have done otherwise? Probably. I still think the end result was pretty good.

    I wouldn't have been happy with a Wasp and Goliath (or Giant-Man) in the first movie that wouldn't have been Hank and Jan, as the OP suggested. If not the founding comic book Avengers, I really don't see the point of inserting other characters with their id. Why introducing the made-up-for-the-MCU daughter of two better-known characters instead of using those characters? It doesn't really make any sense to me. (btw, I know Hope Pym exists in another universe, just not the main one).

    The only reason Hank and Jan are older, retired heroes in the MCU is because Edgar Wright wanted his movie about Scott Lang, because it was the character that made him a fan of Marvel in the first place. Even for his original pitch, there was no real reason why Hank had to be aged up. He could have been 40 years old, and still have retired from the superhero gig because of too much exposure to the particles. Darren Cross could have been written as his former best friend from college, who had turned on him because of greed. The only reason Hank needed to be aged up was because he needed to have a daughter so she could become Lang's girlfriend. In the original script, Hope had a very small role, and Janet wasn't even mentioned, as I heard.

    An idea I've read somewhere was that they could have put Jan on the Avengers team in the first movie, and replaced Selvig's part by introducing Hank instead. They wouldn't even have had to bring in the Ant-Man part, just introduce the characters. I always liked that idea, I think it could have been nice.

    On the other hand, now with the Multiverse restored, there's no end to the possibilities the MCU might bring.
    "You don't raise yourself by stepping on somebody else"

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  12. #87
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    I think the main problem isn't necessarily who appeared firat, but that Hank and especially Janet didn't get to be major heroes, and Janet was barely there at all because she was basically forgotten about. And for some reason, Hope has to be Scott's girlfriend

  13. #88
    Astonishing Member Mary Jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I think the main problem isn't necessarily who appeared firat, but that Hank and especially Janet didn't get to be major heroes, and Janet was barely there at all because she was basically forgotten about. And for some reason, Hope has to be Scott's girlfriend
    I think you resumed it well. I don't really mind that Janet and Hank weren't in the first Avengers movie. I'm still a bit disappointed, but as you said, it's more because they are not heroes in the MCU at all (I mean contemporary heroes, and not of another era). So basically it's not just about not being in the first movie, it's about not being heroes in the current line-up of the MCU. And this, as you said, is because Scott Lang had to have a girlfriend. *sigh*
    "You don't raise yourself by stepping on somebody else"

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  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Jay View Post
    I think you resumed it well. I don't really mind that Janet and Hank weren't in the first Avengers movie. I'm still a bit disappointed, but as you said, it's more because they are not heroes in the MCU at all (I mean contemporary heroes, and not of another era). So basically it's not just about not being in the first movie, it's about not being heroes in the current line-up of the MCU. And this, as you said, is because Scott Lang had to have a girlfriend. *sigh*
    Yeah. I still think Hank & Jan would've been more entertaining in the first 2 movies than Nat & Clint but it's not a huge issue. The problem is them not being contemporary heroes at all. It's like skipping to War Machine or US Agent in the first Iron Man or Captain America movie

    And it's emblematic of how early MCU treated femlae heroes. I'd bet a bunch of people would complain if a major male Avenger was fridged to prop a newer female legacy hero. That did happen with Carol Danvers.

    As for Scott & Hope, it's entirely pointless. It amazes me how a non-canon romance with no chemistry gets less flack than Peter and MJ did just because it's interracial.

  15. #90
    Astonishing Member Mary Jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Yeah. I still think Hank & Jan would've been more entertaining in the first 2 movies than Nat & Clint but it's not a huge issue. The problem is them not being contemporary heroes at all. It's like skipping to War Machine or US Agent in the first Iron Man or Captain America movie

    And it's emblematic of how early MCU treated femlae heroes. I'd bet a bunch of people would complain if a major male Avenger was fridged to prop a newer female legacy hero. That did happen with Carol Danvers.

    As for Scott & Hope, it's entirely pointless. It amazes me how a non-canon romance with no chemistry gets less flack than Peter and MJ did just because it's interracial.
    I thought I was the only one thinking this...! There is a good complicity between Rudd and Lily, but I never felt it was romantic chemistry. More like brotherly love IMO. Heck, Michael Douglas and Michelle Pfeiffer had more chemistry in the ten minutes they were onscreen together than Rudd and Lily in two movies.

    As for the rest, I completely agree with you. Do you think we might have some good surprises with the multiverse opening up? It would be nice, but I don't really think so personally.
    "You don't raise yourself by stepping on somebody else"

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