Marauders #22 Spoilers and Review

[Aeon]

Whatever happened to Astra? After Magneto Not a Hero, never heard of her again.

On Krakoa.

-Rev, who hasn’t read House of X #5 it seems.

[Rev9]

Yep it's clear the story wants to **** on Shaw, to me if they went the route to malign Shaw as an abuser, why not go all the way and say he killed her.It is possible that with this realisation we could see a contrite or maybe a 'new' Shaw. With this though it's doubling down to almost lampoon him at this point.It seems juvenile really if Emma is trying to malign Shaw that much why keep him on the council at all? If she's playing politics then she's no better.

[Rev9]

On Krakoa.

-Rev, who hasn’t read House of X #5 it seems.

She was on panel in HoX5? All those mutants coming through..honestly I don't know a definitive marker to say one of them was Astra.

[JB]

How is it that so many people can be pro Mystique and root for her against Xavier and Magneto despite all the horrible things she has done but then be against Shaw so fervently? Do people believe that Shaw is so much more awful than Mystique, that he has done far worse than she; I would say no he has not. But some want to condemn Shaw while giving Raven a free pass. So what's the difference, is it gender? Shaw is a man so he's automatically irredeemable evil while Mystique is a woman so all her crimes get whitewashed away, like Emma or Harley Quinn and Ivy over in DC. Is that fair. If the situation playing out between Shaw and Emma in Maruaders were reversed people would be screaming sexism and misogyny. It's interesting how some can overlook the misdeeds of some while staunchly condemning others as irredeemable. And usually it's the woman who gets the redemption or at the very least excuses are made for them while the men are reviled, humiliated and beaten down. Case in point the current Shaw situation. Very interesting dynamic that plays out in modern day comics.

Myself and a few others felt sympathy for Shaw here.
I liked his circuit idea and that he wanted to support Erik.

[xhx23x]

How is it that so many people can be pro Mystique and root for her against Xavier and Magneto despite all the horrible things she has done but then be against Shaw so fervently? Do people believe that Shaw is so much more awful than Mystique, that he has done far worse than she; I would say no he has not. But some want to condemn Shaw while giving Raven a free pass. So what's the difference, is it gender? Shaw is a man so he's automatically irredeemable evil while Mystique is a woman so all her crimes get whitewashed away, like Emma or Harley Quinn and Ivy over in DC. Is that fair. If the situation playing out between Shaw and Emma in Maruaders were reversed people would be screaming sexism and misogyny. It's interesting how some can overlook the misdeeds of some while staunchly condemning others as irredeemable. And usually it's the woman who gets the redemption or at the very least excuses are made for them while the men are reviled, humiliated and beaten down. Case in point the current Shaw situation. Very interesting dynamic that plays out in modern day comics.

I think that's a bit of an oversimplication. Raven and Shaw are rocking the system for very different reasons and angles. This new era is supposed to be like a blank slate for all, yet Shaw's first action went something didn't go his way was to act like his old self and kill a fellow mutant. Mystique on the other hand has done nothing but follow the new company line under the promise that they will ressurect Irene, which we know they won't do, and Raven was warm they wouldn't do. So it's not about which former villain is better or not, they are too different stories in the same setting.

I don't think anyone here is talking about condeming one over the other, we are just waiting to see what each will do in their own circustances. Shaw has seen that he is basically powerless here and discovered he was lied to. What is his next move? To continue to fight for power and probably get beaten again or to finally accept the new ways and compromise? Mystique on the other hand can expose Krakoa's truth and that can create a whole wave of potental storylines in the next few months. And for some, especially who feel the Hickman era has been slow, is something to anticipate.

[king of hybrids]

How is it that so many people can be pro Mystique and root for her against Xavier and Magneto despite all the horrible things she has done but then be against Shaw so fervently? Do people believe that Shaw is so much more awful than Mystique, that he has done far worse than she; I would say no he has not. But some want to condemn Shaw while giving Raven a free pass. So what's the difference, is it gender? Shaw is a man so he's automatically irredeemable evil while Mystique is a woman so all her crimes get whitewashed away, like Emma or Harley Quinn and Ivy over in DC. Is that fair. If the situation playing out between Shaw and Emma in Maruaders were reversed people would be screaming sexism and misogyny. It's interesting how some can overlook the misdeeds of some while staunchly condemning others as irredeemable. And usually it's the woman who gets the redemption or at the very least excuses are made for them while the men are reviled, humiliated and beaten down. Case in point the current Shaw situation. Very interesting dynamic that plays out in modern day comics.

For the same reason that despite all the unspeakable stuff Tony Stark etc do, Hank Pym will always be irredeemable. Domestic abuse like Shaw or Hank is much, much more likely to happen than the fantastical means by which Tony or Raven are human shaped bags of intestinal worm excrement; and it’s thus more visceral (just as I’m sure the reaction to the reveal about Wilhemina was for many readers)

I would say that Wilhemina’s apparent heel face to join the marauders judging by the upcoming Ireland (ugh*) arc will probably be genuine. This is the sort of reveal that makes going back to her previous villainy problematic at best

*no offence, but American writers are terrible at writing anything that isn’t the US and occasionally Canada)

[Wolverine12]

For the same reason that despite all the unspeakable stuff Tony Stark etc do, Hank Pym will always be irredeemable. Domestic abuse like Shaw or Hank is much, much more likely to happen than the fantastical means by which Tony or Raven are human shaped bags of intestinal worm excrement; and it’s thus more visceral (just as I’m sure the reaction to the reveal about Wilhemina was for many readers)

I would say that Wilhemina’s apparent heel face to join the marauders judging by the upcoming Ireland (ugh*) arc will probably be genuine. This is the sort of reveal that makes going back to her previous villainy problematic at best

*no offence, but American writers are terrible at writing anything that isn’t the US and occasionally Canada)

I’ve only ever lived in America so I don’t have a frame of reference for this critique, would you be kind enough to to give me a quick summary of what you mean by this? I know it’s OT but im curious.

[king of hybrids]

I’ve only ever lived in America so I don’t have a frame of reference for this critique, would you be kind enough to to give me a quick summary of what you mean by this? I know it’s OT but im curious.

Anything previously involving Banshee and Ireland (when it’s not mixing us up with the North) has involved faith and begorah and his family castle full of James Joyce reading leprechauns. Not that the British writers have been much better, considering Scarlet Witch’s solo had her express surprise we didn’t still live in mud huts

[Wolverine12]

Anything previously involving Banshee and Ireland (when it’s not mixing us up with the North) has involved faith and begorah and his family castle full of James Joyce reading leprechauns. Not that the British writers have been much better, considering Scarlet Witch’s solo had her express surprise we didn’t still live in mud huts

That is a very fair point.

[Spiderfan001]

For the same reason that despite all the unspeakable stuff Tony Stark etc do, Hank Pym will always be irredeemable. Domestic abuse like Shaw or Hank is much, much more likely to happen than the fantastical means by which Tony or Raven are human shaped bags of intestinal worm excrement; and it’s thus more visceral (just as I’m sure the reaction to the reveal about Wilhemina was for many readers)

I would say that Wilhemina’s apparent heel face to join the marauders judging by the upcoming Ireland (ugh*) arc will probably be genuine. This is the sort of reveal that makes going back to her previous villainy problematic at best

*no offence, but American writers are terrible at writing anything that isn’t the US and occasionally Canada)

The last line hurts because how true it is...

[Alphaxman]

I can agree with most, not caring for the Hellfire brats. So I rolled my eyes at the "origins" to that psycho's evilness. Some people are just pathological, especially in fiction. Wilheimina didn't need us to sympathize with her and it just comes off as cliche that she was abused by fatherly figure. Some children are abused by women as well.

As for Shaw... he's a joke now. Emma is and now has always been ten steps ahead of him. I can't even see him as leading the old school Hellfire club now, the way he's always being outmaneuvered by Emma. If Shaw as smart, he would have had back up he could "thrust" around him, the same way Emma has the Kate and the Marauders. Over in Excalibur, Pete is smart enough he needs a team of psyches on his team. With some many mutant telepaths running around, why hasn't Shaw sought out a couple for himself to protect him from Emma? What's Birdy doing lately?

[Saturius]

Birdy is dead isn't she? Killed a long time ago by Sabretooth or Creed I thought. And she sure wasn't powerful enough to be able to protect Shaw from Frost.

[Pumpkin King]

I can agree with most, not caring for the Hellfire brats. So I rolled my eyes at the "origins" to that psycho's evilness. Some people are just pathological, especially in fiction. Wilheimina didn't need us to sympathize with her and it just comes off as cliche that she was abused by fatherly figure. Some children are abused by women as well.

As for Shaw... he's a joke now. Emma is and now has always been ten steps ahead of him. I can't even see him as leading the old school Hellfire club now, the way he's always being outmaneuvered by Emma. If Shaw as smart, he would have had back up he could "thrust" around him, the same way Emma has the Kate and the Marauders. Over in Excalibur, Pete is smart enough he needs a team of psyches on his team. With some many mutant telepaths running around, why hasn't Shaw sought out a couple for himself to protect him from Emma? What's Birdy doing lately?

I think Shaw was supposedly assembling Shinobi, Fenris and Christian (?) as the mutants on his side, but they all were completely uninvolved, and Shaw was stupidly alone when Emma and Kate came for him. I still don't know what Christian is actually doing in this comic, and whether he actually betrayed Emma, if he's still on Shaw's side or not. Similarly, I don't know why Shinobi is currently cooperating with Emma and acting friendly, given that Sebastian told him that Kate and Emma were responsible for his death. I know there's no love lost between Sebastian and Shinobi, but it makes no sense that Shinobi had absolutely no reaction to Shaw's injuries, or that he seems to trust Emma now. Is he secretly plotting? Or is he genuinely an ally now? And Fenris has just been a dangling plot thread in this comic - they were introduced as part of Sebastian's group, and have done absolutely nothing so far. They were used more in X-Corp at this point. I'm still expecting that they'll make a move against the Marauders at get a beat-down eventually.

So I really don't know why Sebastian currently seems so isolated. He had a group that was supposedly in his corner, and now none of them seem to be, with no explanation as to why. Maybe we'll find out that he and Fenris and Shinobi are still making plans to move against Emma, and we just haven't seen it yet, but right now, Sebastian seems very alone. One of my complaints about this comic is that Sebastian seems too incompetent to be a real threat for Emma and Kate to stand against. Emma's been running circles around him the entire comic, his one triumph was killing Kate (which obviously didn't last), and he's been getting beaten down ever since. And I really don't mind Emma beating down Sebastian, because she is, frankly, better than him, and she should ultimately beat him. But he hasn't been allowed to be much of a threat, so him getting repeatedly knocked down is getting boring. I don't know if Duggan is breaking Sebastian down to put him on some vague path towards redemption, or if he will let him come back bigger and badder, but either of those things would be more interesting than "Sebastian loses again because he sucks."

[myownlittleusername]

Over in Excalibur, Pete is smart enough he needs a team of psyches on his team. With some many mutant telepaths running around, why hasn't Shaw sought out a couple for himself to protect him from Emma? What's Birdy doing lately?

I don't think she has used telepathy against Shaw even once in Marauders, so he might have some protection. Telepathy certainly did not help prevent Kitty's murder or even find out who did it afterwards, that was done by other means.

So I really don't know why Sebastian currently seems so isolated. He had a group that was supposedly in his corner, and now none of them seem to be, with no explanation as to why. Maybe we'll find out that he and Fenris and Shinobi are still making plans to move against Emma, and we just haven't seen it yet, but right now, Sebastian seems very alone. One of my complaints about this comic is that Sebastian seems too incompetent to be a real threat for Emma and Kate to stand against. Emma's been running circles around him the entire comic, his one triumph was killing Kate (which obviously didn't last), and he's been getting beaten down ever since. And I really don't mind Emma beating down Sebastian, because she is, frankly, better than him, and she should ultimately beat him. But he hasn't been allowed to be much of a threat, so him getting repeatedly knocked down is getting boring. I don't know if Duggan is breaking Sebastian down to put him on some vague path towards redemption, or if he will let him come back bigger and badder, but either of those things would be more interesting than "Sebastian loses again because he sucks."

Agree, whatever Duggan is trying to do with Shaw is not really working. He might have some good destination in mind, but getting there is sure tedious.

[useridgoeshere]

The last line hurts because how true it is...

I think that's true for writers from a lot of countries. It's not uniquely American to not accurately portray countries you're not from.