Marauders #22 Spoilers and Review

[Ravyn]

No sign of Bobby or his very-recently dead boyfriend. Disappointing, as usual.

[Grunty]

It would be fitting.

Though a bit underwhelming. When the whole thing breaks down and resets the status quo i at least want it to be spectecular (one reason i hope Moira's powers are not what she thinks they are).

[Lucyinthesky]

I liked the issue, I expected a bigger part from Lourdes maybe we will see more of her on future issues if Shaw decides to search for her and Yes, now we have a mission for tempo it will be nice to see her looking for mutants in the past, this opens a big possibility and she can team up with Magik.

It pains me how Charles is so cold towards Wanda or even Erik, seeing their case as just part of the agenda for the QC. Can´t believe Shaw is looking more interested in the case than him if only because of Magneto. But hopefully we will see more reaction from the main X-men on the SWORD issue or directly during ToM.

[Basilisk]

I actually have mixed feelings on this issue. The stories/issues being addressed were great but I felt like I was missing an issue. Somehow I feel that I need a second issue to the Gala. Issue #21 only covered the first half of the night and so there are several key things that happened to our regualr cast that weren't told though the normal perspectives of Mauraders. Christian's death being one of those things and the other is the fact that Sebastian was granted the ability to grow a new body and be healed. I remember no mention of that prior to the Gala and was surprised that Kitty and Emma let him off the hook.

To the actual story being told I was greatly impressed. Was curious how they were going to bring Lourdes back and the reveal that Lourdes has been alive all this time was not one I saw coming. Now I will have to patiently wait for her to make a return to the book at some later date since you can't drop that kind of reveal and not bring the character back. Tying in the Kingpin was a nice touch and I am eager to see more of how this deal worked both for Fisk, Lodes and Emma in the past. Wonder if the debt is truly settled.

Will be interesting to see the effect this will have on Shaw going forward. Not only did Emma lie to him but in a way she used him. Lourdes's death was a turning point for him. Granted he never went full hero but her death was the moment that he chose to fight for Mutants. To learn all of your decisions are based on a lie must be hard. It would be like Peter Parker learning that Uncle Ben had been faking his death all this time and he never had to become a hero.

The second story about Wilhelmia and the Cuckoo's was a nice follow up and it will be interesting to see the outcome. Their first attempt at the Gala seems to not have worked out as well as they hoped but glad to see that they are taking ownership of their mistake and trying to help fix it. Not sure I would be so willing to take a gate to England without alerting someone right now as England just severed ties with Krakoa but I am sure they can handle themselves.

[king of hybrids]

I’m going to be somewhat controversial and say that while Wilhemina’s story is dark as hell, does every seemingly psychotic female supervillain need a traumatic backstory?

Then again, the Hellfire brats should have been moved to Champions/teen teams villains years ago

[Alex.]

I’m going to be somewhat controversial and say that while Wilhemina’s story is dark as hell, does every seemingly psychotic female supervillain need a traumatic backstory?

Then again, the Hellfire brats should have been moved to Champions/teen teams villains years ago

Yeap. I do question this too. It sems like there can't be an actual evil woman who is just... evil and like doing bad things. Everytime it needs to be justified. "She's really evil, but the circunstances made her this way" like, ugh, I'm tired of it.

[Hulkout42]

Just throwing this out there but, what if the thing going down with the Cuckoos and Wilhelmina is not what we think it is? What if its a trap? I mean what if they arrive in London to confront her abuser and turns out this was all part of plan by the other Veritas punks to hurt the Frost and the others back? I mean as stated, all of sudden we have a a character who is a villain yet is so because of tragic circumstances? That seems a bit odd and given that it was already done with Malice, repetitive.

[xhx23x]

Just throwing this out there but, what if the thing going down with the Cuckoos and Wilhelmina is not what we think it is? What if its a trap? I mean what if they arrive in London to confront her abuser and turns out this was all part of plan by the other Veritas punks to hurt the Frost and the others back? I mean as stated, all of sudden we have a a character who is a villain yet is so because of tragic circumstances? That seems a bit odd and given that it was already done with Malice, repetitive.

I mean, if this is the case, then sure. But this is not the first time they do this, particularly with female characters, so I'm not sure I feel they'll be much difference here. I never like these kids as antagonist to adults. It kinda worked in WaTXM cause it was a school setting, but this book should continue to have their main antagonist be politicians and corporations run by other adults.

The only thing is that this may lead to these kids being written out, which I kinda hope. Like Whilemmina will betray them at a key moment due to the Cuckoos and then they'll be out of the way.

[Lucyinthesky]

We have yet to see the Hellfire kids as a serious threat so who knows, maybe this could be it, they have been doing things but not enough to be considered actual foes of the X-men, especially in this era. Being written out could work as well.

I think it was a mistake by Emma to tell Shaw this way about Lourdes, now he will just feel betrayed and maybe work agaisnt Krakoa but who knows how he will react, he may see Emma´s point but doesn´t like the fact he was manipulated into making a decision.

[Huntsman Spider]

Sorry if this is controversial, but this book is giving white feminism. It's also interesting that Williams got attacked for bringing in sensitive issues around sexual violence, but I haven't seen any similar criticism levied at Duggan for doing the same (though I mostly stay off social media so I might be wrong).

I'm seeing quite a bit of criticism for how Duggan handled the issues of physical abuse and child sex abuse, but not nearly as much vitriol as Williams got. Lots more "Gerry Duggan turned in a bad issue" as opposed to "Leah Williams is a bad person".

Good points. There is room to suspect a certain gendered double standard in how Duggan was treated vs. how Williams was treated by critical fans/readers/reviewers, if that is the case.

I enjoyed it. I like the set up with Fisk and Emma and the potential to return of Lourdes. I do wish we have seen more on Christian and the crystal stuff. And I don't particularly like Whilimina's traumatic backstory as an explanation. I like the Cuckoo's helping her but I have no real interest in explaining the Hellfire Bratz. This is easily my least favorite issue as a stand alone, but I am curious of where things will go.



What backlash did Williams get?!

Actual death threats, if I'm not mistaken.

I’m going to be somewhat controversial and say that while Wilhemina’s story is dark as hell, does every seemingly psychotic female supervillain need a traumatic backstory?

Then again, the Hellfire brats should have been moved to Champions/teen teams villains years ago

Sociopathic rich brats using their power to make the world a worse place for their own gain and/or amusement vs. superpowered teens actively campaigning to use their power to make the world a better place? It writes itself. Maybe they can dust off the Freelancers, too, while they're at it.

[Hulkout42]

We have yet to see the Hellfire kids as a serious threat so who knows, maybe this could be it, they have been doing things but not enough to be considered actual foes of the X-men, especially in this era. Being written out could work as well.

I think it was a mistake by Emma to tell Shaw this way about Lourdes, now he will just feel betrayed and maybe work agaisnt Krakoa but who knows how he will react, he may see Emma´s point but doesn´t like the fact he was manipulated into making a decision.

Let's be realistic here, Shaw has essentially been beaten, battered, mutilated and crippled after his actions were revealed against Kitty. Now he has been shown that all his actions taken after that one pivotal moment in his life were due to Frost's machinations even before Krakoa came into being. If there was ever a time for him to rebel against it all and get revenge, this would be it or he has a nervous breakdown and becomes useless.

[Grunty]

Yeap. I do question this too. It sems like there can't be an actual evil woman who is just... evil and like doing bad things. Everytime it needs to be justified. "She's really evil, but the circunstances made her this way" like, ugh, I'm tired of it.

At some point one starts to miss evil villains who do evil because they are just good at it and enjoying themself doing so with no shame or regret.

It's an old fashioned character archetype, but also a timeless one, which readers can enjoy for their simplicity and just how much a good writer can get out of them. Just like how in wrestling a crowd can still enjoy the classic cowardly backstabbing heel.
While more complex characters are always welcome. There is always space for the classic no-sympathy villains who don't need deep motivations, just be enjoyable in their evil.

And it really feels like female characters in these roles were not only always less common, but also seem to become rarer, for various possible reasons.

Though in my opinion the whole X-men line is currently suffering from a lack of interesting or at least capable villains. Especialy with almost all their mutant villains holding hands with the X-men singing Kumbaya my lord.

And while the generic mutant hating organizations or governments of normal humans are certainly one-dimensional they are rarely so in an interesting way, especialy since they tend to lack proper figures for the readers to become attached to, as most of their goons are just faceless "grrr hate mutants" folk and their leaders just carbon copies of another.

And with them so easily stopped, interchangable and lacking in characters who is left?

It's telling that even the hyped up Children of the Vault ultimately only had like 7 characters, who in story even got reduced to humanoid attack drones, seemingly fooled by just 3 mutants for a hundred years. Macking the COTV not only look incapable but also uninteresting for not having any real characters the reader can become attached to.

Just another horde, instead of a proper interesting villain team (what ever it's with a sympathic backstory or just enjoyable evil for the sake of it).

We have yet to see the Hellfire kids as a serious threat so who knows, maybe this could be it, they have been doing things but not enough to be considered actual foes of the X-men, especially in this era. Being written out could work as well.

As far as i see it, the problem with the Hellfire kids has always been that they combine two of the worst qualities for new characters. They came out of nowhere, but quickly overpowered and replaced established villains and they are kids in stories featuring adult heros, but supposed to be their equal and acting superior to them, which is always a great way to just have readers hate them and not for the "love to hate" reasons (like the above mentioned enjoyable classic villains).

Basicly they are presented as being supposed to be a big new deals, but never felt to readers like they "earned" that position.

And i think any victory a writer will give them, will always feel "unearned" while any defeat they suffer will just increase the feeling of them being "paper tigers".

So yeah being written out might be for the best. Perhaps what would work better for them would be to be eventualy brought back reinvented individualy.

[Devaishwarya]

"So, the only reason I care about mutants is a lie?"

This is going to get interesting.

Well...the catalyst for his caring is not as he remembered but...he really doesn't care about mutants, at all. Only his acquisition of power through their use. Just look at his reason and MO for killing Kate. Lourdes doesn't deserve the PoS he really turned out to be and I hope she spurns him, when they finally meet.

[xhx23x]

Let's be realistic here, Shaw has essentially been beaten, battered, mutilated and crippled after his actions were revealed against Kitty. Now he has been shown that all his actions taken after that one pivotal moment in his life were due to Frost's machinations even before Krakoa came into being. If there was ever a time for him to rebel against it all and get revenge, this would be it or he has a nervous breakdown and becomes useless.

i think that he has a choice to make. He will either turn on Krakoa or stop plotting against them. It's difficult to say where he will fall for now. You would think that after all the evidence he would just cut his loses and let it go, but he is a stubborn sorta fellow.

As for whether this was a mistake on Emma's part, she didn't have much choice. Xavier basically was going to tattle, and though I'm sure Emma could held something against Charles to metigate it, she probably didn't see it worth to keep it at this point.

[Lucyinthesky]

Let's be realistic here, Shaw has essentially been beaten, battered, mutilated and crippled after his actions were revealed against Kitty. Now he has been shown that all his actions taken after that one pivotal moment in his life were due to Frost's machinations even before Krakoa came into being. If there was ever a time for him to rebel against it all and get revenge, this would be it or he has a nervous breakdown and becomes useless.

Well he was beaten and mutilated because he killed Kitty and he killed her because he wanted to put Shinobi in her place and he choose to go along with not telling anything about it because he didn´t want to be punished by the QC and as twisted as this looks, this is not really all that rare for internal politics inside the Inner circle, a lot of his main motivation as Black King in the past involved plans in how to take out Selene, but I believe this manipulation in particular will get to him, because we are not just talking about inner circle politics anymore, we are talking about him making a life decision to support the mutant cause after the death of his wife because of a manipulation by Emma, this is more personal and he´s many things but he has never been passive so I hope Duggan addresses this.

And i think any victory a writer will give them, will always feel "unearned" while any defeat they suffer will just increase the feeling of them being "paper tigers"

Agreed

So yeah being written out might be for the best. Perhaps what would work better for them would be to be eventualy brought back reinvented individualy.

Yes I think a reinvention would be the best path for them.