Rumblers League Round 6: Siriel vs Darth Drizzle

[Darth Drizzle]

Here we go!


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Team Darth Drizzle
Apocalypse (9) w/ Power Stone(9) & Mind Stone (8), Absorbtion of Tesseract Energies (10)
David Haller (10) w/ Space Stone (9), Mark of Cain and The First Blade (8)
Scarlet Witch (10) w/ The Source of all Evil (9)
Quicksilver (8) w/ Gamma Mutation: David Banner (7), Genie Bottle Containing Jinny (9)
Sebastian Shaw (6) w/ Luthor's Suit (8) & Motherbox (8)
Mirage (8) w/ Absorption of Gravitonium (7), Invisible Suit (2)


Team Siriel
Sylar(9) w/Ambrosia(9), Time Stone (9)
Eli(5) w/Vest of Coriscan Brothers(7)
Emma Frost(5) w/MITRE Headset(9)
Barbas(6) w/Reality Stone(9)
Paige Halliwell(4)'w/Book of Shadows,(6) Blood of Charmed Ones(7), Phoenix Charm(6), Velocity 9 (9)
Captain Marvel (10) w/ Absorbtion of Godspeed Tachyons (9), Magnetos Helmet (5)
Charlie(6) w/ Power Tripling Potion(9), Centipede Serum(5), Terrigenisis Upgrade: Daisy(5)

[Darth Drizzle]

The Mutants of Ragnarok vs Team Substitute

Match Start

With the opposing team having the Time Stone the Mutants will have to adjust their opening moves. So at the start Apocalypse protects the team mentally and throws up a Power Stone enhanced sheild around his team, Mirage throws up a high powered Gravity Sheild over that, and Wanda throws up her Chaos powered sheild over that which also cloaks the team from sight just like her Hex sheild she put over an entire town, as Quicksilver protects them from any blitzes. Legion who can and has acted normal during outside Time manipulation (shown when he fought against Time Eaters in show) first move is to Teleport all of them to the Center of Ego near his core far underground and now they are undetectable, triple Sheilded, and deep underground making them impossible to find by the enemy team.

Legion then stops time and they get to upgrading. Shaw uses the Motherbox to upgrade Apocalypse's centuries old body by rejuvenating and upgrading the cells in his body to their peak(like with Superman) and greatly upgrading his power enhancing Armor making him more powerful than ever before. Now the amped up Apocalypse gives everyone an enhanced Horseman Upgrade to their powers and then Legion/Scarlet Witch link with his mind and they get their Captain Marvel upgrades doing the moves listed before.

Shaw continues to absorb Motherbox energy after upgrading Mirage's suit as Quicksilver uses his first wish and says "I wish to be able to perfectly absorb and use 2 powers at once". She grants his wish and Apocalypse/Legion empowered him with Power/Space Stone energy and Telepathically gives him all knowledge on how to use them both. His second wish helps out Scatlet Witch and he says "I wish for Wanda to be as fast as me" and Jinny does so with a gesture. Now the mutants are ready to fight and Legion drops the Timestop and still protected by sheilds, and unfindable underground the Mutants launch their attacks.

Fight' N Time!

Apocalypse:
Since Apocalypse mentally dominated Xavier while he was using Cerebro, the same Cerebro that gave him Global Level Telepathy that allowed him to find and mentally connect to anyone on the planet is now paired with the Mind Stone which gave non Telepathic Loki high level Telepathic powers capable of instantly connecting minds across the Galaxy complete with Astral body so real it could feel and cause pain it's needless to say Emma does not come close to either regular Apocalypse or the Mind Stone by themselves. Here they are combined and wielded by a genius with master level control over psionics and she goes down to his might like the rest if her team.

He attacks her both mentally and physically at the same time as he dusts the MITRE helmet and her body whe overwhelming her mentally defeating her in both the physical and astral world. Then while still hidden underground and shielded he does the same to everyone else until all are taken out.
Taken Out: Emma Frost, everyone else

Scarlet Witch:
With the wish making her as fast as Quicksilvers Horesman enhanced energy form and her Marvelous Space Stone upgrade she flies through a portal positioned behind Captain Marvel and wanting to find out who indeed is the Strongest Avenger she attacks Carol. With Chaos magic combined with Cosmic energy formed into powerful blasts from her hands and quick teleportation combos coming at Carol from all sides Wanda takes it to her finishes her off by touching her and transforming her into a 1970s housewife with no recollection of the hero she was and telling her to go to sleep. She then soon towards Piper and does the same to her using her magic cancelling hexes to negate her powers making it even easier.
Taken Out: Captain Marvel, Piper, rest of team

Legion:
As the attack coordinator he sets up the portals that lead to his team's targets while still being protected by sheilds. Still using his powers to offset any Time Manipulation he opens a portal above Eli as Quicksilver uses his third wish and says "I wish for all enemy items were in outer space" then Quicksilver beams through it and starts his attack, then he opens one behind Captain Marvel and Wanda flies through it and attacks Carol.

The next one goes above Barbas and Mirage sends her power through it(though it covers at least a mile radius in the movie) bringing out all enemy fears into reality as she flies through it and attacks him. Then a portal is formed behind Charlie and Shaw now hyper amped rushes her at speed through it. Legion who negates any Time Manipulation if the Stone is still around portals in and beats down Sylar using his Marvel/Reality/Psionic powers to atomize and energy blast or just punch through him many times until he is taken out. He then looks for any enemies remaining and dusts them with his TK/Reality warping or energy blasts/beats down people with his Captain Marvel powers.
Taken Out: Sylar, rest of team

Quicksilver
With his last wish getting rid of all enemy items he beams through the portal and attacks all enemies with his Power/Space stone enhanced powers. He uses his speed and pinpoint teleportation powers he flickers in and out all around the battlefield targeting the 2 speedsters and taking them out combining speed/teleportation/intangibility and using the Power Stone to attack them which destroys both matter and energy(as shown in Thanos vs Dr Strange) so vibrating fast won't save anyone trying to avoid their fate. Then everyone else who are literally statues to him are taken out quickly with punches or energy blasts quickly thereafter.
Taken Out: Speedsters, Items, everyone else

Sebastian Shaw:
Now massively amped from absorbing energy continuously he goes through the portal and targets Charlie. As at base Luthor's Suit easily bounced Superman's Heat Vision from point blank range and now it's been constantly upgraded for over 7 weeks any heat Charlie can quickly produce would not stop Shaws moves(especially since Shaw absorbed fire from a grenade and RPG exploding on him) and using his above Superman's physical abilities she punches Charlie and releases all that energy into a massive explosion that obliterates everything around Charlie including herself. He then Zooms at anyone left and takes them out at speed with physical might nobody their can match or defend against until all are taken out.
Taken Out: Charlie, rest of team

Mirage:
With her Motherbox upgraded Suit giving her at least Cyborg level abilities (he was made from random metal sitting around an office, while she has a high tech suit to start with) she brings about Barbas fears as she flies through the portal and attacks him. Since she overcame her greatest fear in her movie Barbas would not affect her before she crushes him with Gravity powers while she is undetectable and blasts him with weaponry that pushed back Superman/Steppenwolf and Gravity powersnthat lifts thousands of tons in the air and crushes anything. She keeps up the barrage while safely hidden and takes him out,then helps her fear creatures (which came out when she portaled in) take out any remaining enemies.
Taken Out: Barbas, everyone else

[Siriel]

The Plan

Darth has a very strong and well-rounded team, and I think in general locations that break line of sight like this play well to his team's strengths.

That said, there's one aspect where his team lags behind mine a fair amount: Speed. So let's take advantage of that.

The Superspeed Phase:

Paige has now acquired Flash-like superspeed thanks to Velocity 9, and conveniently enough she already has experience gaining superspeed in the 93rd episode of Charmed. It's also showcased in episode 141 of Charmed that magic speeds up along with its user, including teleportation, by the lightspeed Guardian Angels. What, you thought Charmed didn't have superspeed characters? That's silly, Charmed had everything.

So Paige's first move will be to teleport herself along with Captain Marvel near the enemy team (Charmed teleportation always seems able to do that somehow) and cast a time travel spell to send Legion and Apocalypse into the past. By the now solified rules regarding time travel in the league, this will effectively remove them from the fight in a way they can't oppose.
Charmed has a history of spells (especially the Power of Three) enabling time travel, both for the user and various demons, and in particular the Book of Shadows has a spell that lets the user travel back to the 70s along with at least two other people. Sadly this will also cost me Paige, but taking out the lion's share of the enemy team's power is worth losing one person.

While Paige casts Carol will obliterate Quicksilver as he's the only member of the opposite team that might be able to intercept it. This is an unwinnable fight poor Pietro given the sheer stat disparity between them, and trying to summon Jinny won't be able to meaningfully impact their battle due to Jinny's own lack of speed.
(Note that while the Lex Suit could fight Superman, it could do so because it's kryptonite-fueled and therefore weakened him. Still, if you believe that Shaw would be moving at speeds relevant for this, Carol will focus on fighting them off rather than aggressively go against Quicksilver immediately. She should be plenty strong enough to keep them off of Paige, especially since they won't be aware of the two teleporting in at first.)

Taken out: Legion, Apocalypse, Quicksilver.

Outside Flash-Time:

As the not-quite-as-fast people start being able to act, Emma will telepathically strike Legion and Apocalypse as hard as she can - Fox telepaths having shown that they can accurately locate targets at long range when sufficiently powerful or amped. This is really just in case to prevent them from firing off their own first moves, whatever they may be, before Paige is done casting. She can't overpower them both for sure, but she can certainly get them distracted for a second. Once this is done she'll turn her attentions to Wanda to shut her down.

Sylar with his own speed will teleport in first, using the time stone to trap Sebastian Shaw in a timeloop to prevent any shenanigans from him.

As Barbas teleports in with Charlie, the latter will use her ability to locate people via vibrations (through Quake's powers) and punt Mirage into space with a powerful burst of power - this is what killed Graviton in canon, so his powers can't counter it.

Finally Barbas will wave his hand and turn Wanda (who would be losing against Emma's telepathy) to stone.

Eli's job is just to make clones and screen for any attempt to disrupt my team's actions before they teleport out - I'm sorry Eli, I promise I'll get you some powers that let you go on the offensive when we start so far away someday.

Taken out: Wanda, Shaw, Mirage.

Contingencies:

There should be no way for Legion to set off a timestop if my strategy goes as planned, but the Time Stone should be able to prevent if necessary - Sylar should be faster than Legion between his own bullet-timing amplified by godhood, so this shouldn't be an issue.

Likewise the Reality Stone amplifying Barbas' already considerable powers should be able to undo any reality warping shenanigans.

If Wanda is still active at the time my team starts teleporting in, it'll fall to Carol to punch her head off and cement her status as the strongest in the MCU. If Carol is busy for whatever reason, Sylar will keep her busy after looping Shaw, using his greater speed and precision in telekinesis to offset her power advantage. He might lack the raw power to simply beat her, but he should be more than capable of preventing her from focusing.

Shaw is a tough customer to take out if Time Stone shenanigans fail me, but if it comes down to it Barbas would be capable of teleporting with him to another plane of existence while Carol holds him in place, BFR'ing himself to secure my team's win.

[The MunchKING]

I don't know how you guys allways manage to slot it in when I'm not looking.

Siriel's Strat.


The Plan

Darth has a very strong and well-rounded team, and I think in general locations that break line of sight like this play well to his team's strengths.

That said, there's one aspect where his team lags behind mine a fair amount: Speed. So let's take advantage of that.

The Superspeed Phase:

Paige has now acquired Flash-like superspeed thanks to Velocity 9, and conveniently enough she already has experience gaining superspeed in the 93rd episode of Charmed. It's also showcased in episode 141 of Charmed that magic speeds up along with its user, including teleportation, by the lightspeed Guardian Angels. What, you thought Charmed didn't have superspeed characters? That's silly, Charmed had everything.

So Paige's first move will be to teleport herself along with Captain Marvel near the enemy team (Charmed teleportation always seems able to do that somehow) and cast a time travel spell to send Legion and Apocalypse into the past. By the now solified rules regarding time travel in the league, this will effectively remove them from the fight in a way they can't oppose.
Charmed has a history of spells (especially the Power of Three) enabling time travel, both for the user and various demons, and in particular the Book of Shadows has a spell that lets the user travel back to the 70s along with at least two other people. Sadly this will also cost me Paige, but taking out the lion's share of the enemy team's power is worth losing one person.

While Paige casts Carol will obliterate Quicksilver as he's the only member of the opposite team that might be able to intercept it. This is an unwinnable fight poor Pietro given the sheer stat disparity between them, and trying to summon Jinny won't be able to meaningfully impact their battle due to Jinny's own lack of speed.
(Note that while the Lex Suit could fight Superman, it could do so because it's kryptonite-fueled and therefore weakened him. Still, if you believe that Shaw would be moving at speeds relevant for this, Carol will focus on fighting them off rather than aggressively go against Quicksilver immediately. She should be plenty strong enough to keep them off of Paige, especially since they won't be aware of the two teleporting in at first.)

Taken out: Legion, Apocalypse, Quicksilver.

Outside Flash-Time:

As the not-quite-as-fast people start being able to act, Emma will telepathically strike Legion and Apocalypse as hard as she can - Fox telepaths having shown that they can accurately locate targets at long range when sufficiently powerful or amped. This is really just in case to prevent them from firing off their own first moves, whatever they may be, before Paige is done casting. She can't overpower them both for sure, but she can certainly get them distracted for a second. Once this is done she'll turn her attentions to Wanda to shut her down.

Sylar with his own speed will teleport in first, using the time stone to trap Sebastian Shaw in a timeloop to prevent any shenanigans from him.

As Barbas teleports in with Charlie, the latter will use her ability to locate people via vibrations (through Quake's powers) and punt Mirage into space with a powerful burst of power - this is what killed Graviton in canon, so his powers can't counter it.

Finally Barbas will wave his hand and turn Wanda (who would be losing against Emma's telepathy) to stone.

Eli's job is just to make clones and screen for any attempt to disrupt my team's actions before they teleport out - I'm sorry Eli, I promise I'll get you some powers that let you go on the offensive when we start so far away someday.

Taken out: Wanda, Shaw, Mirage.

Contingencies:

There should be no way for Legion to set off a timestop if my strategy goes as planned, but the Time Stone should be able to prevent if necessary - Sylar should be faster than Legion between his own bullet-timing amplified by godhood, so this shouldn't be an issue.

Likewise the Reality Stone amplifying Barbas' already considerable powers should be able to undo any reality warping shenanigans.

If Wanda is still active at the time my team starts teleporting in, it'll fall to Carol to punch her head off and cement her status as the strongest in the MCU. If Carol is busy for whatever reason, Sylar will keep her busy after looping Shaw, using his greater speed and precision in telekinesis to offset her power advantage. He might lack the raw power to simply beat her, but he should be more than capable of preventing her from focusing.

Shaw is a tough customer to take out if Time Stone shenanigans fail me, but if it comes down to it Barbas would be capable of teleporting with him to another plane of existence while Carol holds him in place, BFR'ing himself to secure my team's win.

[The MunchKING]

DD's strat:

The Mutants of Ragnarok vs Team Substitute

Match Start

With the opposing team having the Time Stone the Mutants will have to adjust their opening moves. So at the start Apocalypse protects the team mentally and throws up a Power Stone enhanced sheild around his team, Mirage throws up a high powered Gravity Sheild over that, and Wanda throws up her Chaos powered sheild over that which also cloaks the team from sight just like her Hex sheild she put over an entire town, as Quicksilver protects them from any blitzes. Legion who can and has acted normal during outside Time manipulation (shown when he fought against Time Eaters in show) first move is to Teleport all of them to the Center of Ego near his core far underground and now they are undetectable, triple Sheilded, and deep underground making them impossible to find by the enemy team.

Legion then stops time and they get to upgrading. Shaw uses the Motherbox to upgrade Apocalypse's centuries old body by rejuvenating and upgrading the cells in his body to their peak(like with Superman) and greatly upgrading his power enhancing Armor making him more powerful than ever before. Now the amped up Apocalypse gives everyone an enhanced Horseman Upgrade to their powers and then Legion/Scarlet Witch link with his mind and they get their Captain Marvel upgrades doing the moves listed before.

Shaw continues to absorb Motherbox energy after upgrading Mirage's suit as Quicksilver uses his first wish and says "I wish to be able to perfectly absorb and use 2 powers at once". She grants his wish and Apocalypse/Legion empowered him with Power/Space Stone energy and Telepathically gives him all knowledge on how to use them both. His second wish helps out Scatlet Witch and he says "I wish for Wanda to be as fast as me" and Jinny does so with a gesture. Now the mutants are ready to fight and Legion drops the Timestop and still protected by sheilds, and unfindable underground the Mutants launch their attacks.

Fight' N Time!

Apocalypse:
Since Apocalypse mentally dominated Xavier while he was using Cerebro, the same Cerebro that gave him Global Level Telepathy that allowed him to find and mentally connect to anyone on the planet is now paired with the Mind Stone which gave non Telepathic Loki high level Telepathic powers capable of instantly connecting minds across the Galaxy complete with Astral body so real it could feel and cause pain it's needless to say Emma does not come close to either regular Apocalypse or the Mind Stone by themselves. Here they are combined and wielded by a genius with master level control over psionics and she goes down to his might like the rest if her team.

He attacks her both mentally and physically at the same time as he dusts the MITRE helmet and her body whe overwhelming her mentally defeating her in both the physical and astral world. Then while still hidden underground and shielded he does the same to everyone else until all are taken out.
Taken Out: Emma Frost, everyone else

Scarlet Witch:
With the wish making her as fast as Quicksilvers Horesman enhanced energy form and her Marvelous Space Stone upgrade she flies through a portal positioned behind Captain Marvel and wanting to find out who indeed is the Strongest Avenger she attacks Carol. With Chaos magic combined with Cosmic energy formed into powerful blasts from her hands and quick teleportation combos coming at Carol from all sides Wanda takes it to her finishes her off by touching her and transforming her into a 1970s housewife with no recollection of the hero she was and telling her to go to sleep. She then soon towards Piper and does the same to her using her magic cancelling hexes to negate her powers making it even easier.
Taken Out: Captain Marvel, Piper, rest of team

Legion:
As the attack coordinator he sets up the portals that lead to his team's targets while still being protected by sheilds. Still using his powers to offset any Time Manipulation he opens a portal above Eli as Quicksilver uses his third wish and says "I wish for all enemy items were in outer space" then Quicksilver beams through it and starts his attack, then he opens one behind Captain Marvel and Wanda flies through it and attacks Carol.

The next one goes above Barbas and Mirage sends her power through it(though it covers at least a mile radius in the movie) bringing out all enemy fears into reality as she flies through it and attacks him. Then a portal is formed behind Charlie and Shaw now hyper amped rushes her at speed through it. Legion who negates any Time Manipulation if the Stone is still around portals in and beats down Sylar using his Marvel/Reality/Psionic powers to atomize and energy blast or just punch through him many times until he is taken out. He then looks for any enemies remaining and dusts them with his TK/Reality warping or energy blasts/beats down people with his Captain Marvel powers.
Taken Out: Sylar, rest of team

Quicksilver
With his last wish getting rid of all enemy items he beams through the portal and attacks all enemies with his Power/Space stone enhanced powers. He uses his speed and pinpoint teleportation powers he flickers in and out all around the battlefield targeting the 2 speedsters and taking them out combining speed/teleportation/intangibility and using the Power Stone to attack them which destroys both matter and energy(as shown in Thanos vs Dr Strange) so vibrating fast won't save anyone trying to avoid their fate. Then everyone else who are literally statues to him are taken out quickly with punches or energy blasts quickly thereafter.
Taken Out: Speedsters, Items, everyone else

Sebastian Shaw:
Now massively amped from absorbing energy continuously he goes through the portal and targets Charlie. As at base Luthor's Suit easily bounced Superman's Heat Vision from point blank range and now it's been constantly upgraded for over 7 weeks any heat Charlie can quickly produce would not stop Shaws moves(especially since Shaw absorbed fire from a grenade and RPG exploding on him) and using his above Superman's physical abilities she punches Charlie and releases all that energy into a massive explosion that obliterates everything around Charlie including herself. He then Zooms at anyone left and takes them out at speed with physical might nobody their can match or defend against until all are taken out.
Taken Out: Charlie, rest of team

Mirage:
With her Motherbox upgraded Suit giving her at least Cyborg level abilities (he was made from random metal sitting around an office, while she has a high tech suit to start with) she brings about Barbas fears as she flies through the portal and attacks him. Since she overcame her greatest fear in her movie Barbas would not affect her before she crushes him with Gravity powers while she is undetectable and blasts him with weaponry that pushed back Superman/Steppenwolf and Gravity powersnthat lifts thousands of tons in the air and crushes anything. She keeps up the barrage while safely hidden and takes him out,then helps her fear creatures (which came out when she portaled in) take out any remaining enemies.
Taken Out: Barbas, everyone else

[Jcogginsa]

A note regarding the mind stone: I don't think the stone on it'd oen confers any sort of telepathic ability, since Vision never uses Telepathy on any occasion when it would be helpful.

Thus, I think it can be surmised that Loki's telepathic contact with Thanos' aid in the Avengers is a function aided by the staff, not just the mindstone

[Darth Drizzle]

Not getting into the match yet, just posting some support evidence to my strat.

Wanda Vids
Wanda's Hex Sheild: At 1:30 and 1:40 you can see that the sheild is invisible, as well as the first two episodes show this clearly but I can't find clips of those. Also in the beginning when she goes back into sheild and it shows the size everyone is amazed because they never saw it before and didn't know it's size.

Wanda Transforms Agatha: At 6:44 she Transforms Agatha completely, which is what she does to Carol in match.

Apocalypse/Mind Stones vids
Loki connects minds across Galaxy: Loki showing Top Tier Telepathy feats by instantly contacting a mind across the universe with a Astral body that can cause and feel pain.

Apocalypse over powers Xavier using Cerebro: Xavier while using Cerebro has shown to have Global Level Telepathy as he finds minds across the world. Apocalypse easily over powers him while Xavier is powered up by it.

Sebastian Shaw
Shaw absorbing fire/explosions: He easily absorbs fire and explosions and was absorbing a nuclear reactor with ease.
Luthors Suit beating Superman: This is the Suit at base matching speed/strength/durability with Superman. Being constantly upgraded over 6 weeks by the Motherbox puts him way above this before he even absorbs any energy to amp himself further.

Mirage
Graviton Feats At 7:50 his sheilds stop a speedster, and 9:35 he pilots a thousand plus ton broken non flyable ship through space and into Earth and lands on some buildings.

A note regarding the mind stone: I don't think the stone on it'd oen confers any sort of telepathic ability, since Vision never uses Telepathy on any occasion when it would be helpful.

Thus, I think it can be surmised that Loki's telepathic contact with Thanos' aid in the Avengers is a function aided by the staff, not just the mindstone

I'm sorry but that makes no sense at all. The Staff is just a piece of metal with no bearing on the Stones ability. Please provide any actual evidence that even claims this as this is the first time I have seen anyone claim this information. Whenever Loki uses the Staffs power it glows from the Stone just like every other Stone used in all movies, everything shown by the Staff was the Mind Stones power. I don't even see how that is questionable.

Vision uses the Mind Stones powers(which are clearly defined in any/all wiki or information sites) of Molecular Telekinesis/Matter Manipulation for intangibility and flight and his head laser is just mind Stone energy focused into a beam.

The Loki feat I provided is more than enough to show the Telepathic power of the Stone. It is literally showing Galactic level reach and power(shown by the powerful Astral Body that can cause and feel pain which is the highest level of Astral powers besides Time Travel).

That evidence of the Staff being powerful without the Stone must be compelling to overwrite all the shown feats the Mind Stone has.

[Jcogginsa]

Not getting into the match yet, just posting some support evidence to my strat.

Wanda Vids
Wanda's Hex Sheild: At 1:30 and 1:40 you can see that the sheild is invisible, as well as the first two episodes show this clearly but I can't find clips of those. Also in the beginning when she goes back into sheild and it shows the size everyone is amazed because they never saw it before and didn't know it's size.

Wanda Transforms Agatha: At 6:44 she Transforms Agatha completely, which is what she does to Carol in match.

Apocalypse/Mind Stones vids
Loki connects minds across Galaxy: Loki showing Top Tier Telepathy feats by instantly contacting a mind across the universe with a Astral body that can cause and feel pain.

Apocalypse over powers Xavier using Cerebro: Xavier while using Cerebro has shown to have Global Level Telepathy as he finds minds across the world. Apocalypse easily over powers him while Xavier is powered up by it.

Sebastian Shaw
Shaw absorbing fire/explosions: He easily absorbs fire and explosions and was absorbing a nuclear reactor with ease.
Luthors Suit beating Superman: This is the Suit at base matching speed/strength/durability with Superman. Being constantly upgraded over 6 weeks by the Motherbox puts him way above this before he even absorbs any energy to amp himself further.

Mirage
Graviton Feats At 7:50 his sheilds stop a speedster, and 9:35 he pilots a thousand plus ton broken non flyable ship through space and into Earth and lands on some buildings.



I'm sorry but that makes no sense at all. The Staff is just a piece of metal with no bearing on the Stones ability. Please provide any actual evidence that even claims this as this is the first time I have seen anyone claim this information. Whenever Loki uses the Staffs power it glows from the Stone just like every other Stone used in all movies, everything shown by the Staff was the Mind Stones power. I don't even see how that is questionable.

Vision uses the Mind Stones powers(which are clearly defined in any/all wiki or information sites) of Molecular Telekinesis/Matter Manipulation for intangibility and flight and his head laser is just mind Stone energy focused into a beam.

The Loki feat I provided is more than enough to show the Telepathic power of the Stone. It is literally showing Galactic level reach and power(shown by the powerful Astral Body that can cause and feel pain which is the highest level of Astral powers besides Time Travel).

That evidence of the Staff being powerful without the Stone must be compelling to overwrite all the shown feats the Mind Stone has.

That's the thing, the mind stone has Zero feats on it's own. Everything it, it does when used as part of another machine. Vision never uses any mind control abilities, despite there being numerous occasions when doing so would solve a huge problem for him.

This suggests that the staff contained technology within it that was channeling the Stone's power in order to let it mind control people. Vision's body did not contain that technology, which is why he could not use it.

This would be consistent with the other infinity stones, which are almost always attached to an object rather than manipulated by hand. I can only recall three occasions when the Infinity Stones were used on their own with no technological assistence: Star-Lord using the Power Stone, Thanos punching Carol with the Power Stone, and the Aether fusing itself with Malekith.

The Space Stone is always either contained within the Tesserect or the Infinity Gauntlet

Ronan had to put the Power Stone in his hammer to keep himself safe from it's energy.

The Soul Stone was only ever used with the infinity gauntlet

The Time Stone was within the Eye of Agamotto.

The mind stone as already mentioned is only ever used when part of the Staff, Vision, or the Guantlet.

[Darth Drizzle]

That's the thing, the mind stone has Zero feats on it's own. Everything it, it does when used as part of another machine. Vision never uses any mind control abilities, despite there being numerous occasions when doing so would solve a huge problem for him.

This suggests that the staff contained technology within it that was channeling the Stone's power in order to let it mind control people. Vision's body did not contain that technology, which is why he could not use it.

This would be consistent with the other infinity stones, which are almost always attached to an object rather than manipulated by hand. I can only recall three occasions when the Infinity Stones were used on their own with no technological assistence: Star-Lord using the Power Stone, Thanos punching Carol with the Power Stone, and the Aether fusing itself with Malekith.

The Space Stone is always either contained within the Tesserect or the Infinity Gauntlet

Ronan had to put the Power Stone in his hammer to keep himself safe from it's energy.

The Soul Stone was only ever used with the infinity gauntlet

The Time Stone was within the Eye of Agamotto.

The mind stone as already mentioned is only ever used when part of the Staff, Vision, or the Guantlet.

All of this is an opinion and none of this is a fact, and none of this disproves any feats from any Infinity Stone. Again provide feats of the Tessaract Casing, the Time Stone Casing, the Staff, the Infinity Gauntlet, and Ronans Staff all having powers or explicitly stated to have Stone boosting effects. Anything other than that is an opinion or guesses with zero evidence to back it up. This is a wildly obscure claim that you are throwing around so direct evidence is needed to back it up. Trying to pick apart what is actually shown while showing zero evidence to your own claims is not how you prove or disprove things.

The Tessaract or in reality the casing around the Tessaract has no feats to prove it amped or effected the Space Stone in any way.

The Power Stone explicitly had to much power to weild by flesh alone as was stated in movie. Also Thanos used it by itself so that destroys your argument about the Stones.

The Eye if Agamotto was the Time Stone itself, so again if your arguing it's casing was powerful by itself I need feats.

Ths Infinity Gauntlet we know exactly how it was made and that it contains NO technology whatsoever inside of it so the Stones powers are all coming from the Stones themselves.

And to out all of this to bed Here is the Mind Stone removing itself from the Staff and using it's powers freely to empower Wanda. Also in the Wanda clip posted above she casually mind controls a dozen soldeirs instantly and if haven't seen her show she Mind controls an entire town of people and she got most of her powers from the Mind Stone as seen in the clip.

Either way all evidence and common sense points to the Stones having power and not the random containers they were kept in. Show actual proof of the casings or containers having power to explicitly effect Stones if you want to argue against that and not opinions or guesses because that is just wrong and ignores reality and that impacts all matches when opinion overrides fact.

[Siriel]

Replying to just the strategy for now. If anyone wants any evidence for my strategy let me know and I'll provide it.

Match Start

With the opposing team having the Time Stone the Mutants will have to adjust their opening moves. So at the start Apocalypse protects the team mentally and throws up a Power Stone enhanced sheild around his team, Mirage throws up a high powered Gravity Sheild over that, and Wanda throws up her Chaos powered sheild over that which also cloaks the team from sight just like her Hex sheild she put over an entire town, as Quicksilver protects them from any blitzes. Legion who can and has acted normal during outside Time manipulation (shown when he fought against Time Eaters in show) first move is to Teleport all of them to the Center of Ego near his core far underground and now they are undetectable, triple Sheilded, and deep underground making them impossible to find by the enemy team.

I don't see Quicksilver being able to do much against Paige's move given that Captain Marvel is on him, snd with my first move involving a teleport from the point of view of someone moving in Flash time, they'd be in long before the first shielding attempt. So Legion and Apocalypse are taken out here along with Paige, and Quicksilver is punched out by Captain Marvel.

That very important point aside, I'm not sure about the shield layering as described. It's admittedly a minor nitpick but shouldn't the further shields be layered under the first ones rather than over? After all, to be over them they would need to punch through the previous ones - not a problem with the gravity one since it wouldn't interact, but I feel that a power stone-fueled shield would interfere with Wanda's magic passing through it.

And honestly I'd go through the rest of the strategy step by step, but it all collapses here; the entire strategy is dependent on Legion and Apocalypse doing the amping business as I predicted. With my team having the ability to both act first and stop them, it all collapses before it can even get started.

Shaw starts off absorbing Motherbox energy so he gets looped as he's starting to do that, Wanda is unbuffed and overwhelmed by my team as she set up a shield when everyone is teleporting in, Mirage is punted into space, and it's about as close to a flawless victory as I think I could get. I predicted what kind of opening move would be attempted and countered the cornerstone of the strategy.

(Also as an aside, teleporting shouldn't help a time stop happen. It's not like countering one is line of sight dependent.)

Also;

now it's been constantly upgraded for over 7 weeks

I completely disagree with this interpretation. We don't get to keep the effects of past weeks. Otherwise temporary power-ups would fade, things that increase over time become insane, and etc.

[Darth Drizzle]

To the Match!

Alot if not all of Team Substitute plan revolves around blitzing to my team first and somehow out reacting them at every step. But unfortunately for them this does not happen for a couple of reasons.

1. The Flash Speedsters don't have Super Speed thinking abilities. This was a huge point of the entire first episode of the newest season of Flash and Cisco even calls it a new power he never previously had. They have to activate their super speed to get moving but their thinking/processing speed is the same (shown when Barry talks to Cisco and plans moves at normal speeds while running across town) unlike Quicksilver who lives in superspeed and can think at those speeds(shown when he calculated how far to throw the teens he saved from the mansion into the trees).So Paige would have to activate her speed before using it and since she isn't using running speed her teleport does not get a boost and she goes at normal speed.

Also I don't know why I have to continuously nask this but Feats please that show Paige/Marvel is faster than Quicksilvers Mansion feat which still wasn't his fastest as he was moonwalking and making fun of weird looking people while doing so and making a landing for people he was about to throw a hundred yards or so in a tree while doing all of that. What Flash feats put them their because the only 1 they had is deemed SMvFl and always has been since the week it happened when Barry and somehow every other Flash were moving during a bomb going off in a truck. Besides that one obvious and already called out non frat what puts them at Quicksilver level?

2. About the teleport feats are needed to show she can instantly teleport after being on a new planet for less than a second 4 Miles away to a person she has never met before with pin point accuracy and then do a spell that usually takes a talking chant to do all before a high end bullet timer thinks once without needing to find anyone. That is not happening here. Legion has the Space Stone which has shown pin point Teleportation across the Galaxy and it's working at thought speed across great distances(when Thanks instantly opened a portal from the Moon if Titan to where he was without seeing the Moon directly.

So Legion can get a single thought off before Paige does multiple complex moves without the speed boost she thinks she has, and Apocalypse can Power Stone Sheild the team before that as well with his Quicksilver reacting thought speed and the Power Stone destroys energy and Magic as shown in his Dr Strange fight(:33, :55) so no magic would get to his team through that. Quicksilver himself who is on blitz defense would stop her anyway from doing any spells if needed, and Wandas sheild completely hides our team and blocks out energy and transmutes people trying to get inside(radio waves and high tech sensors/radar could not penetrate her sheild) so in many ways Paiges moves fail to stop my team's teleport and turtle defense.

Once teleported nothing stops my team's moves as Sylar can't counter a Timestop he doesn't know is happening miles away so they get all their upgrades done and attack via pinpoint Space Stone portals and has all their items dissapear before my team pops out of nowhere while they are shocked from item loss and hits them hard with their planned moves. Emma won't stand a chance against Apocalypse and he takes out her and everyone else. Sylar would get destroyed by Legion with his power boosts and First Blade which can kill anything, Barbas gets out feared and overpowered by Mirage and her boosted powers and Gravity abilities, and Eli gets mind whammied or power Stoned by Quicksilver and taken out(his Vest can't hurt Quicksilver as he is powers by the energy it would send back at him and the Vest would be disintegrated anyway).

I don't see Quicksilver being able to do much against Paige's move given that Captain Marvel is on him, snd with my first move involving a teleport from the point of view of someone moving in Flash time, they'd be in long before the first shielding attempt. So Legion and Apocalypse are taken out here along with Paige, and Quicksilver is punched out by Captain Marvel.

That very important point aside, I'm not sure about the shield layering as described. It's admittedly a minor nitpick but shouldn't the further shields be layered under the first ones rather than over? After all, to be over them they would need to punch through the previous ones - not a problem with the gravity one since it wouldn't interact, but I feel that a power stone-fueled shield would interfere with Wanda's magic passing through it.

And honestly I'd go through the rest of the strategy step by step, but it all collapses here; the entire strategy is dependent on Legion and Apocalypse doing the amping business as I predicted. With my team having the ability to both act first and stop them, it all collapses before it can even get started.

Shaw starts off absorbing Motherbox energy so he gets looped as he's starting to do that, Wanda is unbuffed and overwhelmed by my team as she set up a shield when everyone is teleporting in, Mirage is punted into space, and it's about as close to a flawless victory as I think I could get. I predicted what kind of opening move would be attempted and countered the cornerstone of the strategy.

(Also as an aside, teleporting shouldn't help a time stop happen. It's not like countering one is line of sight dependent.)

Also;
I completely disagree with this interpretation. We don't get to keep the effects of past weeks. Otherwise temporary power-ups would fade, things that increase over time become insane, and etc.

The Speed and teleportation of Paige is answered above in now she isn't getting that off before Legion thinks once.

Also the sheilding argument is just semantics as the point is they all throw up sheilding and as they have been doing it for 6 weeks I think they get how it works. And I prove above that Apocalypse sheild would stop any Magic from getting past it.

The Timestop doesn't happen until after the teleport and I don't mention Time Stops helping to teleport at all? I said that Legion could move during Time Manipulation if Sylar tried to Time Stop my team, but as he doesn't try that the point is moot.

Also Mirage is invisible at all times so nobody from your team is finding her by simply looking, and Wanda has Source level durability so she isn't going down to some quick attacks if they got to her.

As for the Motherbox and Luthors suit everybody gets and keeps Item knowledge after every fight. I have an item that upgrades things continuously and Shaw keeps that knowledge. So at the start of every fight the Motherbox upgrades his suit better than last week's specs as Shaw knows what that felt like. It's not a broken concept, it's just what the item does, upgrades things better than they were before. It's also not to big a problem as the initial boost is still substantially better than the base suit without the added weeks of knowledge so it changes nothing in the end. Also that fight I posted showed that Superman was not weakened by Kryptonite at all in that fight. Only when he exposed the Kryptonite knife and stabbed affected him.

[Siriel]

1. The Flash Speedsters don't have Super Speed thinking abilities. This was a huge point of the entire first episode of the newest season of Flash and Cisco even calls it a new power he never previously had.

This requires ignoring that Barry has been entering superspeed at superspeed for the entire series. To list just a couple of very early examples, he entered superspeed in response to a bullet being fired from behind him, catching it before it enters his neck (S1E12), and in response to a lightning bolt coming down from the sky before it could hit the car he was in (S1E15)

The idea that he can't think at superspeed as you claim here:

but their thinking/processing speed is the same (shown when Barry talks to Cisco and plans moves at normal speeds while running across town

Is obviously false as they wouldn't be able to run through the city without running into stuff every single time if they didn't have enhanced perception. But for specific proof, Barry located a specific missing file by speedreading through cabinets in S1E5, a search that would specifically have taken days if done normally. The S1E15 example also works here as we're explicitly shown his POV of the lightning moving in slow motion, showing that yes he does perceive the world as slow while going fast. Or even just S1E1, which also has him perceive the world as slow before he even knows he has superspeed.

Once again, those examples are from Season 1 where Barry was much slower and far less in control of his powers than he would later be.

Flash is a show that loves to have him inflicted by PIS and introduce things he's always done as if they were new (see also their absurd insistence that he was in the low machs for years), just because it says stupid things doesn't make the showings disappear, and as I've just established Barry could do that stuff from the start.

2. About the teleport feats are needed to show she can instantly teleport after being on a new planet for less than a second 4 Miles away to a person she has never met before with pin point accuracy and then do a spell that usually takes a talking chant to do all before a high end bullet timer thinks once without needing to find anyone.

That is not happening here.

Being on a new planet is completely irrelevant as Ego has no effect that affects teleportation, and Charmed teleportation can go across planes of existence so it's not like it only works on Earth.

In episode 98, Phoebe is in Egypt and Piper uses a spell to determine where she is (using a talisman that ends up falling on a globe) and only learns that she's in Egypt. As soon as she knows this, Paige proceeds to teleport the two of them there. This handily beats out both the range requirement and the imprecise location, since Egypt is much further away from San Francisco than a few miles, and the possible location of your team ("on the other side of the palace") is much smaller than "She's in Egypt". Paige had of course never visited that particular Egyptian tomb, so it shows her teleporting places she hasn't been too.

Once teleported nothing stops my team's moves as Sylar can't counter a Timestop he doesn't know is happening miles away

This is an argument that doesn't even make sense with your own actions. If it was true, you would just argue that Sylar can't counter the timestop at all because he starts without line of sight on your team and is also miles away.

The very fact that you acknowledge that he can break the timestop at the start of your strategy shows that you believe he can do it without seeing Legion and from a distance.

Also Mirage is invisible at all times so nobody from your team is finding her by simply looking,

Good thing I explained how Charlie finds her? Quake can sense vibrations, it's part of Daisy's Terrigenesis upgrade.

and Wanda has Source level durability so she isn't going down to some quick attacks if they got to her.

While the Source was difficult to destroy by Charmed standards, it wasn't 'durable' in the sense that it could ignore attacks as far as I can recall. It's as vulnerable to getting smacked around by telekinesis to interrupt big moves as anyone else.

[Jcogginsa]

All of this is an opinion and none of this is a fact, and none of this disproves any feats from any Infinity Stone. Again provide feats of the Tessaract Casing, the Time Stone Casing, the Staff, the Infinity Gauntlet, and Ronans Staff all having powers or explicitly stated to have Stone boosting effects. Anything other than that is an opinion or guesses with zero evidence to back it up. This is a wildly obscure claim that you are throwing around so direct evidence is needed to back it up. Trying to pick apart what is actually shown while showing zero evidence to your own claims is not how you prove or disprove things.

The Tessaract or in reality the casing around the Tessaract has no feats to prove it amped or effected the Space Stone in any way.

The Power Stone explicitly had to much power to weild by flesh alone as was stated in movie. Also Thanos used it by itself so that destroys your argument about the Stones.

The Eye if Agamotto was the Time Stone itself, so again if your arguing it's casing was powerful by itself I need feats.

Ths Infinity Gauntlet we know exactly how it was made and that it contains NO technology whatsoever inside of it so the Stones powers are all coming from the Stones themselves.

And to out all of this to bed Here is the Mind Stone removing itself from the Staff and using it's powers freely to empower Wanda. Also in the Wanda clip posted above she casually mind controls a dozen soldeirs instantly and if haven't seen her show she Mind controls an entire town of people and she got most of her powers from the Mind Stone as seen in the clip.

Either way all evidence and common sense points to the Stones having power and not the random containers they were kept in. Show actual proof of the casings or containers having power to explicitly effect Stones if you want to argue against that and not opinions or guesses because that is just wrong and ignores reality and that impacts all matches when opinion overrides fact.

1. I'm not saying that the casings boosted the Stone's powers. I'm saying that they were necessary to use the Stone's powers. To use an analogy: Gunpowder has the power to explode. But you can't just hold some gunpowder in your hand and will it to explode. It's the same with the infinity stones.

2. The Infinity Guantlet explicitly is a piece of technology created by Eitri for the explicit purpose of controlling the stones. It my not look like Tech, but neither do Stormbreaker or Mjolnir.

3. That's not Wanda using the stone, it's the stone acting on it's own will. And didn't Wandavision reveal that Wanda's powers pre-dated her exposure to the stone?

4. No, the common sense stance is that you can't just grab a stone and use it's power by thought, because that kind of use is vastly in the minority.

[Darth Drizzle]

This requires ignoring that Barry has been entering superspeed at superspeed for the entire series. To list just a couple of very early examples, he entered superspeed in response to a bullet being fired from behind him, catching it before it enters his neck (S1E12), and in response to a lightning bolt coming down from the sky before it could hit the car he was in (S1E15)

The idea that he can't think at superspeed as you claim here:



Is obviously false as they wouldn't be able to run through the city without running into stuff every single time if they didn't have enhanced perception. But for specific proof, Barry located a specific missing file by speedreading through cabinets in S1E5, a search that would specifically have taken days if done normally. The S1E15 example also works here as we're explicitly shown his POV of the lightning moving in slow motion, showing that yes he does perceive the world as slow while going fast. Or even just S1E1, which also has him perceive the world as slow before he even knows he has superspeed.

Once again, those examples are from Season 1 where Barry was much slower and far less in control of his powers than he would later be.

Flash is a show that loves to have him inflicted by PIS and introduce things he's always done as if they were new (see also their absurd insistence that he was in the low machs for years), just because it says stupid things doesn't make the showings disappear, and as I've just established Barry could do that stuff from the start.



Being on a new planet is completely irrelevant as Ego has no effect that affects teleportation, and Charmed teleportation can go across planes of existence so it's not like it only works on Earth.

In episode 98, Phoebe is in Egypt and Piper uses a spell to determine where she is (using a talisman that ends up falling on a globe) and only learns that she's in Egypt. As soon as she knows this, Paige proceeds to teleport the two of them there. This handily beats out both the range requirement and the imprecise location, since Egypt is much further away from San Francisco than a few miles, and the possible location of your team ("on the other side of the palace") is much smaller than "She's in Egypt". Paige had of course never visited that particular Egyptian tomb, so it shows her teleporting places she hasn't been too.



This is an argument that doesn't even make sense with your own actions. If it was true, you would just argue that Sylar can't counter the timestop at all because he starts without line of sight on your team and is also miles away.

The very fact that you acknowledge that he can break the timestop at the start of your strategy shows that you believe he can do it without seeing Legion and from a distance.



Good thing I explained how Charlie finds her? Quake can sense vibrations, it's part of Daisy's Terrigenesis upgrade.



While the Source was difficult to destroy by Charmed standards, it wasn't 'durable' in the sense that it could ignore attacks as far as I can recall. It's as vulnerable to getting smacked around by telekinesis to interrupt big moves as anyone else.

1. It was an entire episode dedicated to the fact that he doesn't have superspeed thinking and not some PIS moment, or a guess, or a theory, it was a explanation for many of the things a out the show that didn't add up. Like in th clip above if he could think at superspeed he could easily out think the "brainy scientist" people like Cisco and Caitlin and other "smart" characters as he could go through thousands of scenarios per second and figure out what they trying to tell him before they finish their sentences hich is exactly what he was doing to Cisco the whole episode and in the clip. It also explains why when running at whatever problem is happening he is talking normally to Cisco or Wells or whoever as they come up with a plan for hi to use as he can't think of one faster than they can and this clip of him having actual superspeed thoughts proves that wrong. Even Barry early on in the series stated that he could read a book at superspeed but not retain any information and we now know why.

When you bring up the bullet or lightning feats that is a reflex/reaction feat. The file feat is him having visual awareness while using superspeed which of course he has and I never doubted that. It was explicitly thinking/processing speed used without movement which I said he doesn't have because it has been explained in show that his speed does not cover that. That is not my opinion that is the show itself making that explicitly clear.

2. Paige getting information on Egypt from a spell then teleporting to her sister(whom they all are connected to each other in various ways) is not the same as her being on a Alien planet and instantly teleporting to a guy she has never met and has no connection to and then doing a spell with words needing to be chanted to activate said spell all before a high end bullet timer thinks once. This whole League was made to go against moves like that and for good reason as it takes away everything about stratagy and move sets. So it doesn't work and it his against the spirit of the League itself to base your entire stratagy around it imo. Plus Apocalypse and his Quicksilver level thought speed gets his sheild up before she gets their and blocks her moves with his Power Stone Sheild that negates magic and Quicksilver is on blitz defense so he would stop her as Legion teleports them.

3. Legion teleporting has nothing to do with a Timestop and I never said it did? I said that he could operate normally during Time Manipulation which he has done if Sylar tried any Time Moves against my team, and as Sylar doesn't even try to it's a moot point that changes nothing on Legions part as his first thought is to teleport my team which he does. Then after that he stops time.

4. Quake sensing vibrations took a hell of alot of practice and knowledge of real world vibrational frequencies and sounds. Charlie is on a alien planet full of life and sounds and vibrations and would not pick out any enemies instantly from miles away especially as they are not moving but teleporting deep underground while protected by a Reality altering Sheild from Wanda while Time is stopped around them. The only thing Charlie would sense it Shaw porting in out of nowhere and wrecking everything with explosive punches.

5. If you can't put down Wanda all she needs to do is think and everything around her is destroyed. As my clip shows(and I have more to show her Miles wide range of power) she has massive AOE attack capability and as of her and end series fight she has sheilds up when she is fighting all the time shown when she was blasted through a house and was fine.

[Darth Drizzle]

1. I'm not saying that the casings boosted the Stone's powers. I'm saying that they were necessary to use the Stone's powers. To use an analogy: Gunpowder has the power to explode. But you can't just hold some gunpowder in your hand and will it to explode. It's the same with the infinity stones.

2. The Infinity Guantlet explicitly is a piece of technology created by Eitri for the explicit purpose of controlling the stones. It my not look like Tech, but neither do Stormbreaker or Mjolnir.

3. That's not Wanda using the stone, it's the stone acting on it's own will. And didn't Wandavision reveal that Wanda's powers pre-dated her exposure to the stone?

4. No, the common sense stance is that you can't just grab a stone and use it's power by thought, because that kind of use is vastly in the minority.

1. For that to be true you need evidence that shows the casings being powerful without Stones or explicitly stated in movie to be th sole reasons the Stones work. Especially as multiple Stones have shown to work outside of casings already.

2. The Gauntlet was just that a highly durable Gauntlet. We saw it's mold casing in the workshop, and again no tech whatsoever is in the Gauntlet and it had no power by itself. Nowhere is it even assumed that the Gauntlet had powers or had any other purpose than holding the Stones. Again provide any actual feats or clips or director notes that even implies this and until then your assumptions are not true.

3. You said the Stones don't work outside of containers or the Staff and it clearly does. Also I a!ready mentioned Wanda had powers at birth but it was the Stone that gave her all her Mind Control and Telekinesis powers and unlocked her Scarlet Witch powers(which she mastered in her final episode and in the clip I provided in this thread).

4. The Stones were explicitly hidden as to not be combined, that was explained in th movies which is why the Stones were not just out by themselves but masked as other things(The Tessaract, The Orb, The Eye of Agamotto, etc) so that is why they weren't just by themselves in the open. And again Thanos used a Stone by itself because he was powerful enough to, and the fact that nobody else really could is because they are aspects of the Universe and really powerful and alsomhiu needed knowledge on how to use them(except the Power Stoned which could be used by anyone if they could withstand it's power).

I honestly can't say anything more than this. So unless you come back with actual feats or not from the director that back up your claims that facts remain the same that the Stones held all the power over the feats they did and not the random containers holding them that were never show or even implied to have any effect on the power output of the Stones.