DC sales figures for the month of June

[Frontier]

Hm forgot about that, maybe I’m underestimating Kyle’s fanbase then. He just hasn’t shown up in outside media since STAS back in the 90s, so I figured his fanbase had fallen off hard.

I think Kyle is kind of like Wally in that, being the 90's GL and being consistently around for a while gave him a pretty strong fanbase even if he didn't benefit from adaptions like Wally did for a while.

[married guy]

I think Kyle is kind of like Wally in that, being the 90's GL and being consistently around for a while gave him a pretty strong fanbase even if he didn't benefit from adaptions like Wally did for a while.

Kyle Rayner is my favourite GL (well, him & Guy).
He has been given the rough end of the pineapple these last few years.

[HsssH]

The GLs are pretty much the poster boys & girls for how the “anyone can wear the mask” crap can go wrong. Now every single ethnic/religious/sexual orientation group has to be represented, and we’ve got more GLs than we know what to do with. Thorne has kind of dealt with this by taking the rings away from all but two, Jo and Hal, but that’s just going to piss off the fanbases of the rest which may be why the sales are dropping so bad. They should’ve kept the GLs to five at most, Jess is too popular to lose, but Simon, Jo, and frankly Kyle if I’m being real, all are redundant and don’t bring enough to keep around at this point.

I sometimes wonder if DC, at some point, won't have to take the axe against some of the "legacy" characters if they want to "fix" GL franchise.

Kyle pulled quite a decent following in the most recent instagram/twitter/dcu online polls, so much so, it got all the way to the semifinals (beating other more recognizable characters such as Zatanna) and got pretty close to beating Robins.

I don't buy that Zatanna is more recognizable than Kyle or any other older GL.

[SebastianS]

I don't buy that Zatanna is more recognizable than Kyle or any other older GL.

Well, she certainly has appeared in more TV shows and movies than Kyle and the other GLs (except probably Hal, John, and Jess).

[Alpha]

I don't buy that Zatanna is more recognizable than Kyle or any other older GL.

She is much more famous than Kyle. She has been in the DCAU (both Justice League and Batman the animated Series) she has been in animated movies like Justice League Dark, Smallville, Young Justice (in a significant role) and various video games like Justice League Heroes. There's just no competition there. Plus Zatanna has a solo movie in the works.

[HsssH]

I suppose you are right, but at the same time I think that you are over-estimating a bit the impact of appearing in one show or another.

[Lee Stone]

I'm going to add that of all the new 5G characters they introduced/revived for Future State and beyond, Yara Flor is one I find the most interesting.
She has a great visual style and could even quite possibly appeal to the Dynamite Comics and Harley Quinn crowd (not meant as an insult, btw).
However, I can't help but think 'where will she go when DC makes the next 'Wonder Girl', which makes me hesitant to get invested in the character.
And then there's this small feeling of guilt of me reading Yara as Wonder Girl while Donna and Cassie are benchwarming.

But this is what happens when you keep introducing new characters under the same name.

Makes me wonder if there are people out there that really care more about the name of the character than whoever is wearing the costume/mask.

[MajorHoy]

. . . And then there's this small feeling of guilt of me reading Yara as Wonder Girl while Donna and Cassie are benchwarming . . .

DC hasn't done all that well with past attempts to give Donna Troy a post-Wonder Girl name / identity that would stick, and have they even tried with Cassie?

Hell, you'd think there's be enough material in Greek mythology to come up with new, decent code-names for those two so they could move beyond just "former Wonder Girl".

[skyvolt2000]

Makes me wonder if there are people out there that really care more about the name of the character than whoever is wearing the costume/mask.

Well looking at guys like Miles and Tim Drake-folks seem to care more about the NAME versus who is in it.

As much as folks scream for new folks or give Falcon or Booster Gold or Static shots. We find folks doing the greatest gymnastic routines to NOT support them-when the books are HALF let alone good. That also includes store owners.

For all the complaints about say Jace Fox as Batman-how many can find his book on shelves way more often than Strange Adventures, Mother Panic, New Age Heroes and so on?

Yet you take Static, Black Lightning, Bumblebee and others OUTSIDE of comics-they can find audiences.

So who is the issue when to comes to comics?

I don't buy that Zatanna is more recognizable than Kyle or any other older GL.

She is. One thing everyone has to look beyond is that comic book. You have to ask what else has she been in. You have to look at Cosplay, toys, posters, non-comic books and so on.
Amazon alone lists 300+ items with her.
Kyle has about 100.
Don't forget she is in DC Super Hero Girls and DC's Bombshells-so that is more stuff with her.

Now her versus John or Hal-no both of them bypass her.

I sometimes wonder if DC, at some point, won't have to take the axe against some of the "legacy" characters if they want to "fix" GL franchise.

How much backlash do you want???

Hal and John are untouchable.

Jess and Jo-I would say the same because you toss them out-you got echo chambers coming for you way more if you tossed John or Hal. And that is more due to the failures of DC to develop women of color and NOT screwing them up like Cassandra Cain was done.

Guy would be an issue too.

That leaves Kyle & Simon.

Unless DC is going to commit to say a 2 year run of a solo with guest spots in other books and merchandise with a new id for whoever goes-you will see backlash.

See Nightwing, Wally West as Flash and Cap America Sam Wilson. They have material as their new ids and old ids.

[Lee Stone]

DC hasn't done all that well with past attempts to give Donna Troy a post-Wonder Girl name / identity that would stick, and have they even tried with Cassie?

Hell, you'd think there's be enough material in Greek mythology to come up with new, decent code-names for those two so they could move beyond just "former Wonder Girl".

Very true.
Which doesn't bode well for Yara's future when DC introduces the next Wonder Girl after her.

Mentioning DC's attempts at moving past these names, made me think of which characters, apparently all original Titans, have or have not been rebranded successfully.

Robin/Dick Grayson - Nightwing (very successful)
Speedy/Roy Harper - Arsenal (not successful), Red Arrow (more successful) (I actually liked Arsenal more than Red Arrow, but that's me)
Aqualad/Garth - Tempest (does DC even reference him as Tempest anymore? Or just 'Garth'?)
Wonder Girl/Donna Troy - Troia (didn't really catch on, and it was tied to a costume that everyone but Perez found trouble drawing), Darkstar (one of many, much like becoming a GL), in recent years she's been going by just Donna Troy, or Troy, which works fine for Luke Cage, but I wouldn't mind seeing DC just call her Darkstar and disband the group since the GLs already claim space as their own.
Kid Flash/Wally West - Flash (while successful at the time, it was doomed to be a bad decision, because he was moving into another character's legacy, which would be problematic if the original ever came back or if there was to be another Flash. Even more problematic if there was another Kid Flash by that time, leaving Wally with nowhere to go. And that's pretty much what happened.), still looking for a name of his own, as he's just called Flash alongside Barry and Jay.

Add to this list a couple of other successful rebrandings:
Batgirl/Barbara Gordon - Oracle (in comics she became equally popular as Oracle as she is as Batgirl), though I wouldn't mind seeing her get a new sleeker fighting suit and keep just the Oracle name, so someone else can be Batgirl.
Robin/Jason Todd - Red Hood (he had to die to get a new name, but he's been much better as Red Hood than as Robin considering he didn't get to be Robin for very long)

[Stick Figure]

One of things that surprised me when I started reading DC was all the Flashes & Green Lanterns. To me, when there’s a new Flash, the old one should retire and only pop up in emergencies. Having characters with the same name is goofy.

[BatmanJones]

Well, she's not a heterosexual male, . . . .

Gross. 10 char

[Veni]

I'm going to add that of all the new 5G characters they introduced/revived for Future State and beyond, Yara Flor is one I find the most interesting.
She has a great visual style and could even quite possibly appeal to the Dynamite Comics and Harley Quinn crowd (not meant as an insult, btw).
However, I can't help but think 'where will she go when DC makes the next 'Wonder Girl', which makes me hesitant to get invested in the character.
And then there's this small feeling of guilt of me reading Yara as Wonder Girl while Donna and Cassie are benchwarming.

But this is what happens when you keep introducing new characters under the same name.

Makes me wonder if there are people out there that really care more about the name of the character than whoever is wearing the costume/mask.

If DC does introduce a new Wonder Girl in the future, it will probably be the daughter of Diana and Steve. Seeing as Superman, Batman and Aquaman have children I wouldn't be suprised if they give Wonder Woman a daughter.

[MajorHoy]

Gross. 10 char

This comment puzzles me.

DC has traditionally been loaded with straight male characters and seems to be trying to diversify their ranks more these days. Why is saying that a character is not a "heterosexual male" considered "gross"?

[HsssH]

I think that if you really want to your post could be read as "DC is forcing diversity on us".