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  1. #16
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    Literal and metaphorical character assassination. Hated every inch of this issue.

  2. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but didn't Holt in his letter say that Adam wanted the investigation because he believed that his story was bullet proof and would exonerate him from any possible links to Pykkts? My understanding is that he simply didn't expect Holt to crack it.
    Adam went to Batman first who asked Holt to take it. I can believe thinking Holt can be fooled, but I don't see Adam thinking that about Batman.
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  3. #18
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    You really don't. Up in the Sky was delightful aside from the awful Lois Lane snuff sequence. That was rightfully dragged through the mud when published...

    But that was at least framed as all of Clark's worst nightmares.
    I had zero problems with those pages because as you said it was Clark's nightmares.

  4. #19
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Yeah this basically nuked Adam Strange as a character. Not sure what, if anything, they’ll be doing with him going forward after this. It was a hell of a Mr. Terrific story though and since Holt was the one of the two I care more about, I enjoyed this. Absolutely sucks if you’re a fan of Adam though.
    Treat it like an Elseworld.
    Both sound reasonable. There’s no plans for Adam in outside media and no plans for him elsewhere in the DCU. Why not let King work out his anger on the character, especially since it was bound to sell more than any traditional Adam Strange book ever would?
    I'd read it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    He's already greenlit for the Human Target, so we'll see who else gets held up for King's Ransom.

    At least Up in the Sky, Grayson and the GL Darkseid War special were rad.
    I saw art of Ice being framed as like a Film Noir Heroine for the Human Target book so either Tora is going to get murdered or kill somebody because that's usually what happens with Film Noir heroines from my experience.

  5. #20
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    The past two issues have been... interesting. My emotional support fantasy turned into mouthpiece for my depression.

    I don't want to rail on Tom King. It's solid character work, however unflattering. And I feel like if you draw the line at Adam Strange (in an OOC story no less), you're essentially saying every hero is untouchable.

    Still. It bothers me that THIS is the Adam Strange revamp. And I wish King had more affection for the character.

  6. #21
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    I don't really care about Adam (I was here for Shaner art and Michael Holt) and I'm still pissed off. This just felt mean spirited at this point. The whole issue was a teardown of his character with seemingly no plan to build him back up, even having Alanna emasculate him to some effect. It's character assassination, full stop.

    Michael Holt comes across great, but I'm not going to forgive a shitshow just because my favorite participant got to shine in it.

    Moreover, if Tom needs to work out anger, I would argue there are better avenues than nuking a character someone or their family may still get royalties from or have had some affection for.

    Strange isn't very popular, so in this instance I doubt it's going to blow up, but it still doesn't sit well with me. Outside of the Super characters, he seems preoccupied with deconstructing heroic figures into neurotic messes that he has no intention of building back up which pretty much screws over anyone who liked that character or wanted to tackle them in a project but was trying to build the prestige to convince DC to let them try. Now they have to unravel this mess on top of getting DC to approve Adam Strange again... So probably never unless Morrison or Gaiman decide they need to slum it and write a monthly book again.

    Unlike Batman, Strange is a small character and there's no guarantee this isn't one of the last words on the character. It probably won't be until the next reboot that it's even possible to use him again as anything other than a villain or sadsack who lost his family assuming he lives. Hell, I didn't care for Scott killing himself (he would never do that to Barda, but don't tell Tom that) but I figured he's popular enough that could be worked out. Adam Strange? I highly doubt it.

    Each issue, I kept thinking "well this is twelve issues so there has to be more to this we aren't seeing" but no, it just kept mounting to exactly what it looked like. Nothing clever nor interesting. Just a lot of anger playing at something emotionally compelling but ultimately being a 2AM Denny's parking lot breakup with a raygun.

    His books are quickly becoming a waste of great art more often than not, and I already skipped half of them.
    Totally fair. I of all people don’t begrudge people getting angry about how characters they like get treated in out of continuity books
    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    I'd agree on Terrific, but he has been kinda absent in the second second half of the series? I hope he gets some pages in the final issue.

    As for sales, looking at what similar ranked books sold in 2019 it looks like it is selling around 30-35k per issue so I wouldn't be surprised if DC will allow King to murder some other minor character next year.
    Which are great sales for a C-Lister which is why King gets to keep doing these. He’s one of the few writers left with a “brand name” for better or worse. And yeah he’s got more minis coming up, but he’s said this is the last of his “angry” phase along with Rorschach, and Supergirl is kicking off a lighter phase for him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Treat it like an Elseworld.

    I'd read it.

    I saw art of Ice being framed as like a Film Noir Heroine for the Human Target book so either Tora is going to get murdered or kill somebody because that's usually what happens with Film Noir heroines from my experience.
    I expect they will keep this as an Elseworld if they ever decide to use Strange again.

    I know you would lol, I probably might too, but it wouldn’t sell well.
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  7. #22
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    This won't effect Adam Strange in the main DCU in the slightest, aside from increasing Alanna's importance as an equal partner. As far as I know, this was always meant to be Black Label, so there was never any intention of this being a way for DC to shitcan the character.

    As for the story itself, there's still another issue left, of course, but I simply don't have enough confidence in Tom King to find a way to make this story worthwhile. The art was gorgeous, and the characterization was great, but I still fail to see the value in King's weird obsession with warping optimistic children's characters into morally compromised metaphors for the horrors he was a part of in the War on Terror.

    This is not to say that these characters can't be used to tell more complex stories that explore morality, but they're better suited to err on the side of aspirational hopeful conclusions rather than this kind of dark defeatist nihilism. I'm just not that interested in reading yet another story from King about how horrible our heroes really are. And I say this as someone who has no strong feelings about Adam Strange one way or another.

    That art is gorgeous though. This is career best for both Gerads and Shaner.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    This won't effect Adam Strange in the main DCU in the slightest, aside from increasing Alanna's importance as an equal partner.
    Is Strange Adventures officially outside of the main DCU?

    Because I recall both King and Gerads mentioning it was still within continuity back when it began despite the move to Black Label. It seems easy enough to ignore and say it took place in an alternate universe, but the intent seemingly was that it was to be canon to the main DCU.
    Last edited by Rend20; 07-29-2021 at 08:20 PM.

  9. #24
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    I find thinking that anything written by Mr. King is best thought of as Elseworlds stories.
    I was in his corner for a while, Batman was alright, Omega Men was great, Vision was a blast - but he completely lost me with Heroes In Crisis.
    From reading everyone's thoughts I'm glad I skipped this as I am a fan of Adam Strange.
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  10. #25
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I.Strange View Post
    I wonder if Alanna killed Adam on purpose -- seemingly by accident, because she knows they're watched (as we saw previously). It's Aleea's only hope. The JLA can't rescue and with Adam exposed, the Pykkts will kill her in retaliation. If Adam's dead though, they might use her to negotiate.

    I wonder also if she's known Adam's betrayal the whole time, and is angry because Terrific forced her hand. The argument then is to goad Adam into confessing (to confirm Terrific's hunch and bring in the JLA) and reveal what he knows about Aleea.

    Probably not, but I find this line very telling-- "Sometimes when you're in a race, and you lap the field, it can look like you're behind when you're actually so far ahead."
    That would be the only way to save Adam (and Alanna). Have it so he and Terrific were playing some fourth dimensional chess with the Pykkts. Though we’ve seen in flashbacks that Adam was a pretty cold blooded warrior that did whatever it took to win and even enjoyed seeing his enemies get dismembered.

    curious to see if theyll bring up the psychological torture the Pykkts put him through while captured. It showed the noble hero what depth he would have to sink to in order to defeat this type of enemy. Still doesn’t redeem Adam.

    This story is Black Label so should we chalk this up to being a modern day Elseworld?

  11. #26
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    This won't effect Adam Strange in the main DCU in the slightest, aside from increasing Alanna's importance as an equal partner. As far as I know, this was always meant to be Black Label, so there was never any intention of this being a way for DC to shitcan the character.
    Batman has lots of out of continuity books, but how many of them have turned him into irredeemably evil character? Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't remember a single one that does it. Fact that DC was ok with King doing this to Adam shows what DC editors think about Adam in general. Best case scenario this was Didio's idea that will be ignored going forward.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rend20 View Post
    Is Strange Adventures officially outside of the main DCU?

    Because I recall both King and Gerads mentioning it was still within continuity back when it began despite the move to Black Label. It seems easy enough to ignore and say it took place in an alternate universe, but the intent seemingly was that it was to be canon to the main DCU.
    King and Gerad's intentions are irrelevant at this point. As with most stories that land with a resounding thud, they tend to be ignored pretty quickly (just ask Steve Orlando). Strange Adventures's status as a Black Label book only makes it easier for everyone to ignore. Heroes in Crisis's status as DC's big event meant they had to at least acknowledge it before it got rolled back almost immediately, but this one won't even get the chance to become canon before being exiled to the "not canon"-verse

    Johns & Fabok's Three Jokers has suffered the same fate, although neither of those guys seem to have any illusions about how little impact that book was going to have upon the larger DCU. Had Geoff Johns not been dethroned within the corporate hierarchy, though, we absolutely would be dealing with the many turds that story tried to shat upon the DCU proper.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    Batman has lots of out of continuity books, but how many of them have turned him into irredeemably evil character? Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't remember a single one that does it. Fact that DC was ok with King doing this to Adam shows what DC editors think about Adam in general. Best case scenario this was Didio's idea that will be ignored going forward.
    Yup, this was absolutely something greenlit under Didio's watch and I would expect King to be heading over to Marvel, where his heart clearly lies, the moment his exclusive contract with DC expires.

  14. #29
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    King and Gerad's intentions are irrelevant at this point. As with most stories that land with a resounding thud, they tend to be ignored pretty quickly (just ask Steve Orlando).
    What happened with Orlando?

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    What happened with Orlando?
    Everything he wrote at DC was immediately ignored, like his ill-conceived "reimagining" of Martian Manhunter or his Electric Warriors or any of his Wonder Woman stuff. Didio kept giving Orlando chances and yet he never managed to gain any traction, despite his many, many, many chances to do so.

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