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  1. #31
    Extraordinary Member HsssH's Avatar
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    I never even tried any of those series, I think his JLA was also badly received? A shame, it looked he had lots of potential after Midnighter and Apollo.

  2. #32
    insulin4all CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    That would be the only way to save Adam (and Alanna). Have it so he and Terrific were playing some fourth dimensional chess with the Pykkts. Though we’ve seen in flashbacks that Adam was a pretty cold blooded warrior that did whatever it took to win and even enjoyed seeing his enemies get dismembered.

    curious to see if theyll bring up the psychological torture the Pykkts put him through while captured. It showed the noble hero what depth he would have to sink to in order to defeat this type of enemy. Still doesn’t redeem Adam.

    This story is Black Label so should we chalk this up to being a modern day Elseworld?
    I think there is still some resolution like this coming up next issue. It's not unheard of for Adam to be darkened by intense warfare and I do expect something like this. But damn, if there's not something we're not aware of, then I will add my voices to those crying character assassination.

    I recall some inkling of this, Mister Miracle, and Sheriff of Babylon being some kind of trilogy King was writing. And Miracle ended with promises of another book. Obviously this would be thematic, but I do need to reread Babylon.
    I’ll don the mask and wear the cape
    If I am super, how can I wait?

  3. #33
    Extraordinary Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    I kept thinking there was some underlying mystery here other than a) he's a traitor or b) he's a pure hero but it seems doubtful we'll get that kind of resolution.

  4. #34
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    Pretty amazing how polarizing King's writing is.

    I found this issue pretty fantastic. Artwork is gorgeous as always, and the way it was used was awesome. The pacing of alternating events from the past and present, how even in the present tense Adam and Alanna start talking past one another but in a way that still connects to the present/past - pretty sublime. Compared to Batman/Catwoman where the past/present stuff merely adds confusion, this was a great showcase of showing the connection between different time periods.

    All the expletives weren't needed, especially with the artwork easily capturing the emotion and anger, but it didn't bug me.

    After reading this, I remembered a Justice League storyline where Adam Strange pretended to go crazy and enslaved the Justice League on Rann before ultimately revealing he had a plan all along. So there is precedent for Adam Strange appearing to go evil. Although with the ending of this issue, and only one issue left, it is hard to see what can be done.

    I get that people are turned off by what seems to be the character assassination of Adam Strange. Just try and think of this as a non-canon series and appreciate it for what it is. Although the previous issue did literally describe the concept of 'Bat-God', so it likely is canon.

  5. #35
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lefthanded View Post
    Pretty amazing how polarizing King's writing is.

    I found this issue pretty fantastic. Artwork is gorgeous as always, and the way it was used was awesome. The pacing of alternating events from the past and present, how even in the present tense Adam and Alanna start talking past one another but in a way that still connects to the present/past - pretty sublime. Compared to Batman/Catwoman where the past/present stuff merely adds confusion, this was a great showcase of showing the connection between different time periods.

    All the expletives weren't needed, especially with the artwork easily capturing the emotion and anger, but it didn't bug me.

    After reading this, I remembered a Justice League storyline where Adam Strange pretended to go crazy and enslaved the Justice League on Rann before ultimately revealing he had a plan all along. So there is precedent for Adam Strange appearing to go evil. Although with the ending of this issue, and only one issue left, it is hard to see what can be done.

    I get that people are turned off by what seems to be the character assassination of Adam Strange. Just try and think of this as a non-canon series and appreciate it for what it is. Although the previous issue did literally describe the concept of 'Bat-God', so it likely is canon.
    I assume that was from the Silver Age.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I assume that was from the Silver Age.
    Mark Waid, doing clean up after the previous deconstruction.

  7. #37
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Yup, this was absolutely something greenlit under Didio's watch and I would expect King to be heading over to Marvel, where his heart clearly lies, the moment his exclusive contract with DC expires.
    A weird assumption considering he has multiple projects in the works still coming, and his stuff sells well. He’ll keep getting more work at DC for as long as he sells, complaints be damned. Also pretty sure his exclusive is already up, DC doesn’t give exclusive contracts anymore, King can do Marvel work whenever he wants, he’s just sticking with DC for the moment.

    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    I never even tried any of those series, I think his JLA was also badly received? A shame, it looked he had lots of potential after Midnighter and Apollo.
    Totally disagree with Bored about Martian Manhunter, I thought that series was great. Gotham City Monsters was great as well. The rest however were indeed as mediocre as Bored describes, and none of them sold well which is why Orlando eventually got the boot.
    Last edited by Vordan; 07-31-2021 at 12:14 AM.
    For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by lefthanded View Post
    Pretty amazing how polarizing King's writing is.

    I found this issue pretty fantastic. Artwork is gorgeous as always, and the way it was used was awesome. The pacing of alternating events from the past and present, how even in the present tense Adam and Alanna start talking past one another but in a way that still connects to the present/past - pretty sublime. Compared to Batman/Catwoman where the past/present stuff merely adds confusion, this was a great showcase of showing the connection between different time periods.

    All the expletives weren't needed, especially with the artwork easily capturing the emotion and anger, but it didn't bug me.

    After reading this, I remembered a Justice League storyline where Adam Strange pretended to go crazy and enslaved the Justice League on Rann before ultimately revealing he had a plan all along. So there is precedent for Adam Strange appearing to go evil. Although with the ending of this issue, and only one issue left, it is hard to see what can be done.

    I get that people are turned off by what seems to be the character assassination of Adam Strange. Just try and think of this as a non-canon series and appreciate it for what it is. Although the previous issue did literally describe the concept of 'Bat-God', so it likely is canon.


    Boom.
    This is actually how I treat every volume of a series and I take any connection to past volumes solely within the context of said series.
    Makes reading much more enjoyable. Least for me.

  9. #39
    insulin4all CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. White View Post
    Boom.
    This is actually how I treat every volume of a series and I take any connection to past volumes solely within the context of said series.
    Makes reading much more enjoyable. Least for me.
    These stories featuring characters who haven't had a regular series in decades get a great deal of scrutiny about how they fit in with previous continuity. This applies to personality and behaviors as well. King gets a lot of crap for taking liberties with personalities and actions of characters but he also gets a lot of kudos for brilliant stories. Although I fall on the positive side of King fandom, I see both sides of the criticism. In some cases I disagree, in others I jump in with a pitchfork and torch. Here, though, the evidence against Adam, if true, would really warp everything we know about him. I am loving this, but am dreading a possible ruining of the main ingredient of this recipe.
    I’ll don the mask and wear the cape
    If I am super, how can I wait?

  10. #40
    Extraordinary Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Are people really complaining here about some problems with continuity? Turning heroic figure into villainous one is not just some continuity issues.

  11. #41
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    A weird assumption considering he has multiple projects in the works still coming, and his stuff sells well. He’ll keep getting more work at DC for as long as he sells, complaints be damned. Also pretty sure his exclusive is already up, DC doesn’t give exclusive contracts anymore, King can do Marvel work whenever he wants, he’s just sticking with DC for the moment.



    Totally disagree with Bored about Martian Manhunter, I thought that series was great. Gotham City Monsters was great as well. The rest however were indeed as mediocre as Bored describes, and none of them sold well which is why Orlando eventually got the boot.
    My guess that King is heading to Marvel is based on his clear preference for those characters in all the Word Balloon interviews he's done. I don't think he's doing exclusive there though. I don't think either publisher is interested in exclusive contracts anymore. I'm sure King will keep doing projects at DC, but I think we'll be seeing him less and less at DC once his current projects wrap up.

    I loved the art on Martian Manhunter, but I fundamentally disagreed with the premise that Orlando based it on. J'Onn J'Onzz didn't need a backstory of a corrupt cop to be interesting. It was a complete misunderstanding of what makes the character click.

  12. #42
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    I haven't read the book because, well, tom king.

    But in all sincerity this thread confirms that I made a sound choice.

    Like a couple of other writers at the big two, if I see him on a title I just skip it and hope the damage doesn't last.

  13. #43
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Totally disagree with Bored about Martian Manhunter, I thought that series was great. Gotham City Monsters was great as well. The rest however were indeed as mediocre as Bored describes, and none of them sold well which is why Orlando eventually got the boot.
    His Wonder Woman run was by far the best worldbuilding Diana has had since Phil Jimenez. I didn't love the Aztek story, and I thought the Paula Von Gunther arc was fine though not exceptional. I obviously can't deny that he didn't sell very well, but I wish he had stayed much longer and had been given free reigns. At least we will get one more WW story from him in the 80th anniversary
    Last edited by Alpha; 08-04-2021 at 08:21 AM.

  14. #44
    I'm at least a C-Lister! exile001's Avatar
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    I'm really enjoying this book and am very excited for the conclusion.

    I love the idea of a Sci-Fi power fantasy unravelling to such an extreme degree that it threatens to implode the very universe (DC's "Earth") that allowed it to happen. That once the magic prince is faced with REAL adversity (and gets in way over his head) he tries his best but ultimately is crushed by it. It's both darkly hilarious and tragic at the same time. And framing it around decaying relationships (his wife, friends, colleagues, the everyday people) just adds to it.

    The dialogue has been fantastic and layered (I don't care about the swearing) and, like a lot of King's work, carries the book.

    Honestly, I thought King was going MUCH darker when this started (think Old Boy) so I'm somewhat relieved it is as restrained as it is.

    It's not going to harm Adam Strange long term as it's Black Label, so not continuity (not that DC has continuity anymore).

    On the Orlando thing, his Midnighter (& Apollo) was fantastic.
    "Has Sariel summoned you here, Azrael? Have you come to witness the miracle of your brethren arriving on Earth?"

    "I WILL MIX THE ASHES OF YOUR BONES WITH SALT AND USE THEM TO ENSURE THE EARTH THE TEMPLARS TILLED NEVER BEARS FRUIT AGAIN!"

    "*sigh* I hoped it was for the miracle."

    Dan Watters' Azrael was incredible, a constant delight and perhaps too good for this world (but not the Forth). For the love of St. Dumas, DC, give us more!!!

  15. #45
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    His Wonder Woman run was by far the best worldbuilding Diana has had since Phil Jimenez. I didn't love the Aztek story, and I thought the Paula Von Gunther arc was fine though not exceptional. I obviously can't deny that he didn't sell very well, but I wish he had stayed much longer and had been given free reigns. At least we will get one more WW story from him in the 80th anniversary
    I liked Orlando’s WW, GC Monsters, Midnighter minis, and Martian Manhunter, but none sold well. The attempts to put him on “big” books like Supergirl or JLA didn’t work out either, and Electric Warriors I thought was terrible by the end. So he’s hit or miss for me in an inconsistent way.
    For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

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