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Thread: Arrow

  1. #1501
    Boing Boing Baggies. Baggie_Saiyan's Avatar
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    Oliver: Felicity...
    Felicity: I am on it

    Is it me or have these lines been said in like every episode? I was waiting for this to happen in the latest ep and when it did, I burst out laughing xD.
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  2. #1502
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Felicity is the Oracle of the Arrowverse. Putting her in a wheelchair is not going to make her any better or worse in front of a computer.
    I think maybe just dubbing her Oracle is enough. I don't think actually putting her in a wheelchair is necessary. I honestly don't care if they decide to give her that name or not, though. Either way, I'm good.

  3. #1503
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalen O. View Post
    Oracle's skills with computers are no more than half the character at best. The issue people are having is that it tends to be overlooked that diversity doesn't just mean other sexualities or skin colors. Disabled people deserve representation too. The character of Oracle isn't about some hacker, its about a superhero who lost the use of her legs and her means to be a hero in a traumatic event and rose past that, and tapped into her other skillsets to find a completely new way to be a hero and help people rather than just give up. None of which has anything to do with Felicity. So yes, making Felicity this universe's version of Oracle at first glance might seem to be no big deal, but people would not be so quick to dismiss it if we were talking about them making Katana some white girl with a Japanese sword or introducing Cyborg as a white kid. No, its not the same thing, but its not dissimilar either.
    Those are certainly valid reasons for adding someone with a physical disability to the show, but not necessarily in regard to Felicity's characterization, IMO. Would it bother me if the latter was the case? Nope, but I'm not sure we need to develop a trope where cute, bespectacled girls need only apply.
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  4. #1504
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    Quote Originally Posted by phonogram12 View Post
    I think maybe just dubbing her Oracle is enough. I don't think actually putting her in a wheelchair is necessary. I honestly don't care if they decide to give her that name or not, though. Either way, I'm good.
    As long as the Joker or some other super villain wouldn't have Felicity go the full The Killing Joke route, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But if they added the humiliation/loss of dignity garbage Babs went through...
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  5. #1505
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    As long as the Joker or some other super villain wouldn't have Felicity go the full The Killing Joke route, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But if they added the humiliation/loss of dignity garbage Babs went through...
    As someone who liked The Killing Joke, I completely agree with you. Felicity doesn't need to go through all that to be this world's Oracle.

    That said, Babs absolutely kicked ass as Oracle. And I say that as someone who really digs this new creative team on Batgirl.

  6. #1506
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    Yes, but the point is, why does Felicity need to be Oracle if the only thing she has in common with the comic book character is impressive hacking skills? Why can't she just be a smart, exceptionally talented hacker?

    Ordinary businessman by day, masked crime fighter by night. I just described virtually every male non-powered superhero in the DC universe, all of whom are incredibly different characters aside from that extremely simplistic, superficial (yet accurate) logline. If there's room for male characters to overlap skillsets and traits, then we don't automatically have to make all female hackers Oracle by default.
    Last edited by Kalen O.; 11-09-2014 at 12:09 PM.

  7. #1507
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalen O. View Post
    Yes, but the point is, why does Felicity need to be Oracle if the only thing she has in common with the comic book character is impressive hacking skills? Why can't she just be a smart, exceptionally talented hacker?

    Ordinary businessman by day, masked crime fighter by night. I just described virtually every male non-powered superhero in the DC universe, all of whom are incredibly different characters aside from that extremely simplistic, superficial (yet accurate) logline. If there's room for male characters to overlap skillsets and traits, then we don't automatically have to make all female hackers Oracle by default.
    We don't, but I don't see the harm in it, either (to reiterate, I'm totally fine with her staying just Felicity as well. I just don't see what the big deal would be if they also went ahead and gave her the name Oracle).

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    Quote Originally Posted by phonogram12 View Post
    We don't, but I don't see the harm in it, either (to reiterate, I'm totally fine with her staying just Felicity as well. I just don't see what the big deal would be if they also went ahead and gave her the name Oracle).
    Because it essentially says the only important thing about Oracle is her computer skills, and devalues the fact that her core character concept is that of a disabled superhero who finds a way to use her skills to still help save people from her wheelchair once she can no longer go out there and kick ass like all the rest of the non-powered vigilantes. Which, again, is kinda a big deal to every comicbook fan I know who has some kind of serious disability. There's no harm to most viewers, perhaps, but just because something's not an issue for you doesn't mean that the same is true of all viewers.

    So let me flip it around and ask instead: What's the big gain from going ahead and giving her the name Oracle? As everyone in this thread has agreed, the name itself will not change the character of Felicity one bit.

  9. #1509
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalen O. View Post
    Because it essentially says the only important thing about Oracle is her computer skills, and devalues the fact that her core character concept is that of a disabled superhero who finds a way to use her skills to still help save people from her wheelchair once she can no longer go out there and kick ass like all the rest of the non-powered vigilantes. Which, again, is kinda a big deal to every comicbook fan I know who has some kind of serious disability. There's no harm to most viewers, perhaps, but just because something's not an issue for you doesn't mean that the same is true of all viewers.
    And I think all that is great (honestly), but on the flip side, man, as a Filipino-American, if I took every offense to a Filipino joke they made on Family Guy, I'd be on a non-stop letter writing campaign 24-7. And don't even get me started on how both television and film just run with those stereotypes.

    While I do think a certain amount of sensitivity is important to all types of people, an over indulgence of political correctness really has no place in any sort of creative medium. I mean, every time Spike Lee goes off on how Quentin Tarantino has no right to use certain words in his movies I just want to smack that little man a full foot shorter than he already he is because what he essentially wants to do is stifle any sort of creativity he doesn't agree with.

    And as far as devaluing, hell, they already gave the Oracle name to another character in the new 52: http://www.comicvine.com/oracle/4005-87347/

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalen O. View Post
    So let me flip it around and ask instead: What's the big gain from going ahead and giving her the name Oracle? As everyone in this thread has agreed, the name itself will not change the character of Felicity one bit.
    Well, fanboys do tend to like tips of the hat to the comics, so there's that. I mean, hell, they seemed to eat up Felicity's 'Death' look last episode (and did you see that Starro shirt 'Brother-I' just before he got busted? That was fantastic!).

    FYI: it kinda irked me when John Stewart was magically able to walk again. But then again, there're a lot of things that bug me about the Green Lantern mythos.
    Last edited by phonogram12; 11-09-2014 at 01:33 PM.

  10. #1510
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    It's just a name. chloe Sullivan pretty much was the oracle of smallville but in her case , her codename was "watchtower" since her base of operations was a watchtower like oracle used to be in the comics.

  11. #1511
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    Been thinking this over, and this is how I feel about it. I think that the story arc of Oracle would be amazing to experience on the screen. Becoming disabled, being mentally as well as physically defeated at first but then deciding to stay in the fight with her mind if not her body and fighting her way back- if done right it would be an emotional roller coaster and downright inspiring. And IF it was to be done with Felicity and played out over most of an entire season I think Emily Bett Rickards would completely own it and make people cry and then stand up and cheer. And IF it happened, I would prefer that she not be permanently disabled but eventually recovered and walked again. I would have no problem with it if the show decided to do it and let's even cheer for our girl Emily to win an Emmy for it.

    But when I really ponder it, there are reasons to do Oracle on screen in a different way, and there is an available venue for it. She is a character who developed her computer skills after becoming disabled, and Felicity already has those skills. So I think it would be even better to do it in the new DC movieverse with Barbara Gordon alongside Ben Affleck's Batman. I can even imagine Cavill's Superman being there when she is wounded, and a reminder of the scene where he healed Lois' wound with him sadly x-raying her and then saying, "I'm sorry, I can't fix this."

    I'd be thrilled with either, and would prefer the second if I had to choose, but we don't need both and as is usually the case when we imagine what we'd like to see we will probably get neither.

  12. #1512
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    As long as the Joker or some other super villain wouldn't have Felicity go the full The Killing Joke route, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But if they added the humiliation/loss of dignity garbage Babs went through...
    OTOH, unlike Batman, i would fully expect Ollie to make said villain seriously pay for it.
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  13. #1513
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    I spent the entire first act thinking this was going to be a comedic episode. I mean, the fun yet goofy title, Diggle bringing his baby to the Arrowcave while everyone has to hide who they are from Felicity's bizarre mother...but then things got DARK. Great performance from EBR in flashback and present day. I guess now we know why she's single and awkward with men if she had such a traumatic experience with her first love (that ended up getting even worse for her).

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeevanjacobjohn View Post
    Yeah, they could make an exception - introduce Atom before Antman comes out (Of course, the reach is much much smaller for a TV show, but still...get it out there)
    When talking about Atom and Ant-Man, sometimes smaller is better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Ray invents a nano-technology robot. It's a really really small robot. He controls this robot by wearing an exo-skeleton suit that captures his motions and relays those motions remotely to the nano-robot. Ray would have to enter some virtual reality that lets him see and feel the environment that the nano-robot experiences at the micro-level
    I had a similar thought myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by KurtW95 View Post
    "I hear you go by Red Arrow now. More like Broken Arrow."

    They are totally ripping off Young Justice. And I have absolutely no problem with that.
    My theory is that yes, Roy did kill Sara...only this isn't the original Roy. Before the mirakuru, the original Roy Harper was captured and put in some sort of suspended animation while someone cloned Roy Harper and sent him to work with the Arrow and learn about his operations. So it's the clone who has been on the show ever since.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Knight View Post
    Felt she looked a bit too young to be her mother myself, but can understand why you say that.
    Did Felicity tell Ray she's adopted?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrandKaiser View Post
    Here are some things I want to see in this show:

    Nyssa joining Team Arrow (thought it would happen in the Magician)
    I want to see her return and be a part time ally of Team Arrow while training Laurel to become a new Canary and take her place on Team Arrow before leaving again.

    Quote Originally Posted by hunter_peterson View Post
    So, this episode made me think that Felicity's father is probably Professor Ivo. She was raised by her mother after her genius non-blonde father left, he left his wife and daughter years before we saw him on Lian Yu was a genius and had brown hair. They consistently drive home that everything "good person" about Felicity comes from her mother, which fits with Ivo being crazy but competent. And he left his family to perfect Mirakuru for the purpose of stopping a degenerative genetic condition that affects it; Felicity was originally going to be Oracle. This is actually a fairly character-respectful way to push her into the wheelchair.

    So yeah. I reckon Ivo will return, maybe looking more like the comics, and will be revealed as Felicity's father, and she'll at least be mentioned to be likely to end up paralysed. It fits... but also is fairly tenuous at this point. But they really made it obvious that her dad has to be SOMEONE. :P
    I can see how people don't want Felicity to be Oracle since that's Barbara Gordon's role, but what if Felicity is actually Wendy from the comic adaptation (not Super Friends)? That would make her father the Calculator. Or Felicity could become Sparky from the Steel movie. Oracle isn't the only wheelchair bound hacker from the DCU.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson Knight View Post
    Also. does anyone have any theories where Thea was living after she got back from Corto Maltese, and no longer had Queen Manor, as it were, to call home, and couldn't live in the same place as her brother, considering the secret, door being locked and all that?
    Hotel, probably, until she locked down that swanky new place she moved into.

    Quote Originally Posted by phonogram12 View Post
    Well, fanboys do tend to like tips of the hat to the comics, so there's that. I mean, hell, they seemed to eat up Felicity's 'Death' look last episode (and did you see that Starro shirt 'Brother-I' just before he got busted? That was fantastic!).
    I wonder if Death was intentional (not all goths wear anhks, right?) or just us making the comparison? The Starro shirt was cool, though!

  14. #1514
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    Quote Originally Posted by phonogram12 View Post
    And I think all that is great (honestly), but on the flip side, man, as a Filipino-American, if I took every offense to a Filipino joke they made on Family Guy, I'd be on a non-stop letter writing campaign 24-7. And don't even get me started on how both television and film just run with those stereotypes.

    While I do think a certain amount of sensitivity is important to all types of people, an over indulgence of political correctness really has no place in any sort of creative medium. I mean, every time Spike Lee goes off on how Quentin Tarantino has no right to use certain words in his movies I just want to smack that little man a full foot shorter than he already he is because what he essentially wants to do is stifle any sort of creativity he doesn't agree with.

    And as far as devaluing, hell, they already gave the Oracle name to another character in the new 52: http://www.comicvine.com/oracle/4005-87347/



    Well, fanboys do tend to like tips of the hat to the comics, so there's that. I mean, hell, they seemed to eat up Felicity's 'Death' look last episode (and did you see that Starro shirt 'Brother-I' just before he got busted? That was fantastic!).

    FYI: it kinda irked me when John Stewart was magically able to walk again. But then again, there're a lot of things that bug me about the Green Lantern mythos.

    See, but that's the thing though....when the only 'gain' you can come up with off the top of your head is the name is a tip of a hat to fanboys, versus the 'harm' of taking the name and legacy of one of the ONLY prominent disabled heroes in comics and giving it to a perfectly healthy, walking woman....

    ...is it really an over-indulgence of political correctness to just...not make that tip of a hat to fanboys, and instead keep the name available to potentially introduce a disabled Oracle in the future?

    No offense, I just happen to prioritize the importance of representation to certain groups over what essentially amounts to an injoke to fanboys who will still like Felicity just as much if she remains simply Felicity. And I really don't think that has anything to do with political correctness, I'd actually just call it common decency. *Shrugs*

  15. #1515
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalen O. View Post
    See, but that's the thing though....when the only 'gain' you can come up with off the top of your head is the name is a tip of a hat to fanboys, versus the 'harm' of taking the name and legacy of one of the ONLY prominent disabled heroes in comics and giving it to a perfectly healthy, walking woman...

    ...is it really an over-indulgence of political correctness to just...not make that tip of a hat to fanboys, and instead keep the name available to potentially introduce a disabled Oracle in the future?
    They don't have to do that, no. But I think you're overestimating the harm it would do, too, especially when you have characters like the disabled one on Family Guy appearing on millions of tv screens every week.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalen O. View Post
    No offense, I just happen to prioritize the importance of representation to certain groups over what essentially amounts to an injoke to fanboys who will still like Felicity just as much if she remains simply Felicity. And I really don't think that has anything to do with political correctness, I'd actually just call it common decency. *Shrugs*
    Again, honestly? I still think this is all a bit overly PC, especially when you start using words like "common decency." To say that if they started calling Felicity Smoak Oracle on Arrow indecent is a bit of hyperbole, imho.

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