Arrow

[Kensei]

Thea and Merlyn- there was the sound of a body falling, but when we get the reveal I could see Merlyn maybe on his knees, opening his suit to reveal his Kevlar with two impacts in it, and saying, "Ok, I can see that you're serious." Then a smile, and "You're more my daughter than you realize."

Quoting myself from last week, as I do believe I nailed that pretty darn close.

I hate that I'm never able to watch the show until Thursday, and I didn't have time to post until now. I just skimmed all the comments so I hope I'm not repeating anyone, but man alive did that finale deliver for me. That was just about all the awesomeness I can process without my head exploding. Did they top the season 1 finale? No I don't think so, but they did equal it.

Slade's fall was perfect. He was such a perfect and powerful villain for so long that he lowered Oliver to the point of being ready to literally give up his own life, and he was not afraid to die himself as long as his promise to Oliver was fulfilled. And then to end up not victorious, not dead, but depowered and in a cage, defiant and rattling the bars like any common criminal. And to be captured with trick arrows in true classic comic book Green Arrow style!
"You don't think I'll get out of here?"
"No, you won't-- you're in PURGATORY."
Nothing to say but SWEEEEEET!

I've wondered before that if Slade survived, might he bargain for priveleges in prison and become a Hannibal Lectre type character, offering to provide information to solve other cases, slowly but surely leading to his inevitable escape? Could be intriguing, and we're on our way. One thing I postulated on the old forum bears repeating now- he is unlikely to join the Suicide Squad, because he just isn't the order-taking type.

Felicity is so not just comic relief anymore, and I feel for her now more than ever. I hope the exploration of her feelings for Oliver doesn't end here. The whole twist of how he told her he loved her (which I'll bet fooled almost everybody!) was unbelievably clever on the writers' part, but the ending when they talked about it lacked something. Oliver DOES love her. Of course he does, it goes without saying. He just doesn't love her "that way." It would have been nice if he could have somehow tactfully told her that. But in tv and film, saying "I love you" is reserved for either family or romance, not friends. Too bad.

Roy needs a complete costume, and a hero name. I thought I'd read that the name "Green Arrow" would be uttered by season's end, and that it might lead to Roy saying "Then that makes me Red Arrow." Could still happen. Can't wait to see what happens to Thea, but her becoming a villain of some kind seems likely. Isobel/Ravager- does she now hold the record for the shortest reign of any comic book villain on the show so far once she got her powers and costume? Snap- gone. Would've liked to have seen more from her. Quentin- good god, what's happening to him? Internal bleeding? It just looked like a big bruise. I really hope he pulls through. And as for his daughters--

Ok, they deserve their own paragraph. Look everybody, Laurel is NOT guaranteed to be the new Black Canary just because she put on that leather jacket. It could easily just be a tease, no different than the ones in season 1 like when she mentioned wearing "those godawful fishnets." Quentin told her not to get any ideas and they laughed about it as if it was just a joke. Plus, SARA DIDN'T DIE (huge sigh of relief). So she is still Black Canary and still in the world and does not need replacing. Plus when you think about it, the canary was a very personal symbol unique to Sara because it was a canary landing on a piece of debris that showed her she must be near land and gave her hope that she was going to survive when she was lost at sea. Of course Laurel could adopt that same symbol to honor Sara's memory and take her place, but again- Sara's not dead. So for all those who are loathe to see Laurel as BC, please, do not despair. It is not a sure thing yet. About Sara though, it bewilders me that she would have that redemption last episode when she saved the child from the fire, and then go back to being an assassin anyway. I guess she had already made her promise to Nyssa by that time, but knows now that she does have goodness within her.

Awesome finale! Loved it, loved it, LOVED IT! It spun my head around.

[Kensei]

Further thoughts- showing the two fights between Oliver and Slade in the past and present simultaneously was one of the most exciting and riveting action scenes I've seen in a long time. But I was so thinking, going way back to the begining, that Slade would lose his eye on the beach since that is where the impaled mask was. But it happened on the ship, and then the ship sank. Oliver thinks both Sara and Slade went down with the ship and drowned, and thought he was going to join them but then he suddenly woke up in Hong Kong with Argus. So Argus was practically upon them as they fought and then swept in to pluck Oliver out of the ocean, and Slade (unconscious on a sinking ship) and Sara somehow made it back to the nearby island? So big question- who placed that mask with the arrow through the eye on the beach? It seemed like a dark memorial of sorts to Slade. I'm thinking it is probably still placed by Oliver once he eventually returns to the island, which will almost have to be after Slade has made his swim to freedom because it would strain credulity for them to be on the island together again without encountering each other. And how Sara ends up with the League- all kinds of fodder for flashbacks there. But in the immediate aftermath of the sinking of the Amazo, both she and Slade will have to have swum back to the island with no love lost between them. I wonder if they confront each other at all there. And that, I think, should about cover the questions presented in that part of the show.

[JediMindTrick]

Ok, they deserve their own paragraph. Look everybody, Laurel is NOT guaranteed to be the new Black Canary just because she put on that leather jacket. It could easily just be a tease, no different than the ones in season 1 like when she mentioned wearing "those godawful fishnets." Quentin told her not to get any ideas and they laughed about it as if it was just a joke. Plus, SARA DIDN'T DIE (huge sigh of relief). So she is still Black Canary and still in the world and does not need replacing. Plus when you think about it, the canary was a very personal symbol unique to Sara because it was a canary landing on a piece of debris that showed her she must be near land and gave her hope that she was going to survive when she was lost at sea. Of course Laurel could adopt that same symbol to honor Sara's memory and take her place, but again- Sara's not dead. So for all those who are loathe to see Laurel as BC, please, do not despair. It is not a sure thing yet. About Sara though, it bewilders me that she would have that redemption last episode when she saved the child from the fire, and then go back to being an assassin anyway. I guess she had already made her promise to Nyssa by that time, but knows now that she does have goodness within her.

In the comics, Black Canary's name is Dinah LAUREL Lance. So yeah it is a given that Laurel is intended to be Black Canary. I don't recall its been officially stated anywhere that Laurel is her middle name on the show but they wouldn't have gone with that name otherwise. Now whether the writers ultimately go that way is still up to them but what I fear as I've said is the Smallville problem. Like Lana or or not the show spent a lot of seasons building that relationship while the Chloe shippers were in misery. Then they introduce Lois and are forced to write both Lana and Chloe out of the picture in ways that didn't make much sense with what came before in terms of their character development. Here they've had Lois, aka Laurel, from the start while Chloe, aka Felicity, and Lana, aka Sara, have been pushed and developed. I just hope at least they don't wreck Sara's character like they did Lana's when they nonsensically pushed Lana toward Lex and then had to write Lana off into the sunset while at the same time screwing up the Clark / Lois relationship by affirming Lana as Clark's one true love whom he can never be with.

[VolcanikTiger86]

I still neeed to watch it so I'll go with my gut feeling about this

IMO, Good: Speedy has the guts to put a hole in jerk-papa. And then an understandable reason why she returns to him is given to us. She wants to get tough enough that nobody can ever hurt her again, and she figures he can show her how.

This would be good advancement for Thea, me personally i still want her joining team arrow at some point.

IMO, Bad: I did want to just slap Roy. Just come clean with Speedy. The way that went down undermined the whole you-just-might-get-killed-out-of-what's-coming-next-ness of the whole scene.

i agree but it also causes more drama when she finally finds out and she should.

IMO, Good: OH NO! NOT DET. LANCE! It actually hurt me what was happening to him. A good mortal taking one more step in the fight than he could handle. More heroic to me than anything Green Arrow or his allies did.

At least they didn't kill him off cause Paul has been killing it this season in my opinion

IMO, Good: Suicide Squad is never bad. The way they were played, participating without having to have a super-rescuing role, worked for me.

Agreed if they had it would have weakened Ollie

IMO, Bad: The whole ARGUS thing (even though it let me have the SS moment). Basically, they were there to do nothing but artificially inflate tension (unless they're trying to soft float a build toward a pilot, in which case I forgive all).

I understand a lot of fans are interested in a SS spinoff, i would watch it only if Dig was in it and im not sure how it would affect his arrow status.

IMO, Bad: Sara's exit and giving the jacket to Laurel. I puked a little bit in my mouth. It was emotionally shallow and if the jacket was intended as foreshadowing, all it did was make me roll my eyes.

I'm hoping its more keep this for me so i come back than foreshadowing because Laurel should NOT be the canary, to much damage to make it seem natural to me without killing sara off and i think she's a better canary.

IMO, The Best: Ollie's sneaky move with Felicity in the mansion! I couldn't decide if I was annoyed at them generating another teen-drama-romance issue, glad that Ollie was shipping with my personal fave from the series, or bracing myself for her decapitation. Even though I way prefer FS to LL, the way it was played made Green Arrow look smart, and played to the emotional set up that Arrow has established from Day 1.

This is the worst for me if olicity happens next season then i'm going to have a problem, Felicity should be a friend that can stand on her own two feet not downgrade to play the love interest. As far as i'm concerned the CW are inbetween a rock and a hard place because the comic book fans will want arrow/canary which felicity just isn't and the internet fans will want olicity what i wouldn't mind is them taking a big risk and do smoaking canarrow on the show.

IMO, The Worst: Felicity was hung out for bait. There should be some real issues related to that that simply weren't there in the last scene on the Island.

Maybe that will be covered next season after all from what i heard it was a jam packed finale.

Ok, they deserve their own paragraph. Look everybody, Laurel is NOT guaranteed to be the new Black Canary just because she put on that leather jacket. It could easily just be a tease, no different than the ones in season 1 like when she mentioned wearing "those godawful fishnets." Quentin told her not to get any ideas and they laughed about it as if it was just a joke. Plus, SARA DIDN'T DIE (huge sigh of relief). So she is still Black Canary and still in the world and does not need replacing. Plus when you think about it, the canary was a very personal symbol unique to Sara because it was a canary landing on a piece of debris that showed her she must be near land and gave her hope that she was going to survive when she was lost at sea. Of course Laurel could adopt that same symbol to honor Sara's memory and take her place, but again- Sara's not dead. So for all those who are loathe to see Laurel as BC, please, do not despair. It is not a sure thing yet. About Sara though, it bewilders me that she would have that redemption last episode when she saved the child from the fire, and then go back to being an assassin anyway. I guess she had already made her promise to Nyssa by that time, but knows now that she does have goodness within her.

No disrespect but its taken ollie 2 years (2 seasons) to find true redemption so its not going to happen that fast for Sara. Its a step in the right direction and I'm shocked that Caithy wasn't promoted next season i thought she was dead but have to watch the finale first.

In the comics, Black Canary's name is Dinah LAUREL Lance. So yeah it is a given that Laurel is intended to be Black Canary. I don't recall its been officially stated anywhere that Laurel is her middle name on the show but they wouldn't have gone with that name otherwise. Now whether the writers ultimately go that way is still up to them but what I fear as I've said is the Smallville problem. Like Lana or or not the show spent a lot of seasons building that relationship while the Chloe shippers were in misery. Then they introduce Lois and are forced to write both Lana and Chloe out of the picture in ways that didn't make much sense with what came before in terms of their character development. Here they've had Lois, aka Laurel, from the start while Chloe, aka Felicity, and Lana, aka Sara, have been pushed and developed. I just hope at least they don't wreck Sara's character like they did Lana's when they nonsensically pushed Lana toward Lex and then had to write Lana off into the sunset while at the same time screwing up the Clark / Lois relationship by affirming Lana as Clark's one true love whom he can never be with.

No its not for a kick start Choe wasn't in the books, to use your example in Smallville Green Arrow didn't even date Black Canary but married a character created for the show. After the backlash for the character can you tell me you would believe if Laurel become the BC next season, I know I couldn't because in my opinion they have made Laurel completly unlikable especially bringing in Sara this season. If you would have asked me last year I would have said I'm on board now no just no. As for the other if Sara is the canary then she should be ollie's love interest and Felicity under no condition should be anyway near it unless she is equally involved (smoaking canarrow) otherwise for me it weakens her charcter. But this is different to smallville with one little difference all three have been introduce fairly quickly, the oliver/laurel ship is pretty much dead so she shouldn't be involved. Lois was added after 40% of the run was over.

[Kensei]

In the comics, Black Canary's name is Dinah LAUREL Lance. So yeah it is a given that Laurel is intended to be Black Canary. I don't recall its been officially stated anywhere that Laurel is her middle name on the show but they wouldn't have gone with that name otherwise. Now whether the writers ultimately go that way is still up to them but what I fear as I've said is the Smallville problem. Like Lana or or not the show spent a lot of seasons building that relationship while the Chloe shippers were in misery. Then they introduce Lois and are forced to write both Lana and Chloe out of the picture in ways that didn't make much sense with what came before in terms of their character development. Here they've had Lois, aka Laurel, from the start while Chloe, aka Felicity, and Lana, aka Sara, have been pushed and developed. I just hope at least they don't wreck Sara's character like they did Lana's when they nonsensically pushed Lana toward Lex and then had to write Lana off into the sunset while at the same time screwing up the Clark / Lois relationship by affirming Lana as Clark's one true love whom he can never be with.

Good points, but I think "Arrow" has played fast and loose enough with its various comic characters that nothing is certain or inevitable. The best case in point is Isobel Rochev- in the comic if I remember it right she was a much older woman who took over Oliver's company and mockingly called herself "The Queen," and had absolutely nothing to do with Ravager, who I guess had several different incarnations one of whom was Slade's daughter. Yet on the show, Isobel was Ravager. This is only one example of how they've merged/expanded/changed comic characters for the show. There is also the fact that the show has responded at least slightly to what the fans want. They started out with Oliver using greasepaint over his eyes, but fans complained that they wanted to see the mask. In response, the mask appeared. Now fans are mostly saying that they don't want to see Laurel become Black Canary. I know it might still happen, I'm just saying it's not a foregone conclusion.

[VolcanikTiger86]

Good points, but I think "Arrow" has played fast and loose enough with its various comic characters that nothing is certain or inevitable. The best case in point is Isobel Rochev- in the comic if I remember it right she was a much older woman who took over Oliver's company and mockingly called herself "The Queen," and had absolutely nothing to do with Ravager, who I guess had several different incarnations one of whom was Slade's daughter. Yet on the show, Isobel was Ravager. This is only one example of how they've merged/expanded/changed comic characters for the show. There is also the fact that the show has responded at least slightly to what the fans want. They started out with Oliver using greasepaint over his eyes, but fans complained that they wanted to see the mask. In response, the mask appeared. Now fans are mostly saying that they don't want to see Laurel become Black Canary. I know it might still happen, I'm just saying it's not a foregone conclusion.

A few more points
Thea or the closest thing is Mia Dearden who was the second Speedy. In the comics Oliver has no brothers or sisters in the show he does.
Felicity didn't work for Oliver she had her own company and was linked more to firestorm in the show she is working for him as his EA.

I agree with Kensei it could happen, i personally hope it doesn't but we have to wait and see.

[Kensei]

One more further thought- I too looked at Oliver's plan in using Felicity to draw Slade into a vulnerable position without even letting her know what was going on as being pretty bad at first. He was putting her into an incredibly dangerous position. But in retrospect, he knew he was on microphone but not camera and placed that vial of the cure into her hand just after telling her that he loved her and asked if she understood, and she did. And she has really evolved this season, and become willing to be part of dangerous situations. Not long ago she was shot, and wore the wound as a badge of honor. Even in that "I love you" scene she was pleading- no, don't leave me out, put me in danger like everybody else! And this was war, after all. So he let her take part, and she proved herself. Gonna look forward to more participation in the action by Felicity from here on.

[Kensei]

A few more points
Thea or the closest thing is Mia Dearden who was the second Speedy. In the comics Oliver has no brothers or sisters in the show he does.

Thea's full name on the show has been spelled out as "Thea Dearden Queen," so I'm not expecting any other version of Mia to appear.

[Vworp Vworp]

One more further thought- I too looked at Oliver's plan in using Felicity to draw Slade into a vulnerable position without even letting her know what was going on as being pretty bad at first. He was putting her into an incredibly dangerous position. But in retrospect, he knew he was on microphone but not camera and placed that vial of the cure into her hand just after telling her that he loved her and asked if she understood, and she did. And she has really evolved this season, and become willing to be part of dangerous situations. Not long ago she was shot, and wore the wound as a badge of honor. Even in that "I love you" scene she was pleading- no, don't leave me out, put me in danger like everybody else! And this was war, after all. So he let her take part, and she proved herself. Gonna look forward to more participation in the action by Felicity from here on.

Except that Ollie's entire plan was based on dumb luck and wishful thinking. The entire crux of said plan was dependent on Slade not searching Felicity when he kidnapped her; not tying her up or incapacitating her in any other number of ways before Ollie arrived; and, most ludicrously of all, Felicity being able to get the drop on a highly trained, super-powered, heavily armed mercenary.

Sure, this has never been a show striving for anything resembling realism... but really?

[John Ossie]

I agree we will probably get Cheshire in Hong Kong for Season 3.

Speaking of which, I suspect the mother of Ollie's baby will be back as will the now 7 year old child him or herself. Place your bets: will Ollie's kid be Connor Hawke? Or Lian?

Given that Thea used to win awards for archery in her youth and that she's joined her father, Malcolm Merlyn, I think Thea will eventually confront Ollie and Roy as this DCU character...



Artemis VS Arrow and Arsenal
(and it fits that originally Artemis was the daughter of a criminal so Thea Queen being the new Artemis seems like an awfully safe bet)

I hadn't considered Artemis but yeah that'd be logical now that I think about it. As for Ollie's kid my guess would be Connor

[Vanguard-01]

I found it funny that Detective Lance and Laurel were saying goodbye to Sara as if she was just moving to Coast City and not re-joining a mercenary assassins cult.

Thank you!

Seriously, DETECTIVE! And COUNSELOR! Your daughter/sister is going off to resume her job as a murderer-for-hire and you're not going to try to fight this? At all? And Ollie isn't going to try to stop it either? He's firmly "no killing" now and yet his girlfriend is about to run off and murder people for money and he doesn't even PROTEST?

If they wanted to get Sara out of the way so that Laurel could become Black Canary (which I'm not cool with, since Sara is a better fit for the job) then why didn't they just kill her instead of completely destroying her redemption story?

[Sandy Hausler]

Since the mom was headed to Central City and metahumans are now forming there could we get a comic book fast aging scenario to avoid the dreaded child actor issue and instead get a teenage Connor?

I know that this a comic book TV show, but that is a terrible cliche, that I expect they will not use. We may see the kid in the next season, but I highly doubt that he will become a regular member of the cast. But that's just my opinion. I can, of course, be wrong.

Sandy Hausler

[Sandy Hausler]

It was done simply to kick all the Olicity shippers in the gut.

Uh, I don't think the writers think about that at all. The whole sequence was very powerful with a great twist. Besides, we all know Ollie loves Felcity (and Laurel and Sara and Shado and that cop whose name I don't remember). After all she will always be his girl.

Sandy Hausler

[VolcanikTiger86]

Thea's full name on the show has been spelled out as "Thea Dearden Queen," so I'm not expecting any other version of Mia to appear.

Hi Kensi i was highlighting a difference to illustrate that its possible for sara to remain the canary which i hope she does.

[VolcanikTiger86]

Except that Ollie's entire plan was based on dumb luck and wishful thinking. The entire crux of said plan was dependent on Slade not searching Felicity when he kidnapped her; not tying her up or incapacitating her in any other number of ways before Ollie arrived; and, most ludicrously of all, Felicity being able to get the drop on a highly trained, super-powered, heavily armed mercenary.

Sure, this has never been a show striving for anything resembling realism... but really?

I think Ollies plan wasn't based on luck but on Slade underestimating Felicity which he did, he didn't think to search her because of this strength the same for tying her down, before the finale Slade was super strong Felicity can't beat him even now in hand to hand. So its is realistic if the mercenary is comprised which Slade was.